My favorite video of all time!
Spitfire Low Pass

See Below...

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/558107455/m/164103388

"The Spitfire was a great little airplane - you just couldn't go anywhere or do anything with it!" Col Francis Grabreski, USAAF

Even today flying these planes is not with out considerable risk:
Shoreum Air Show Crash

Followed shortly after by a mark of respect from the other pilots in the display:

Missing Man

There is an old B&W war movie set in England.
An air control officer is talking on the phone near the door of the hut. The guy drops the phone grabs a flare pistol and jumps out the door. A real landing sequence is spliced in and a Spitfire is shown attempting a wheels up landing. A flare is fired across the field in front of the Spitfire and he peels off for another go around, hopefully to try it with the wheels down the next time.

ireload2,

Yes, I vaguely remember that scene....I think they were using it to show the inexperienced nature of the pilots who were being rushed through training due to the dire circumstances of the time...

Sad thing is I haven't got a chance in hell of remembering the title these days

Regards,

Pete

It was, or also was in a more modern film called "Battle of Britan" or sumsuch, in colour but not very colourful. The usual gang of pommy actors.

But the last time I was listening to a Military and civilian tower, the Mil controlers had to confirm to the Mil pilots their gear was down.

They didn't presume with the civy pilots, but they probably looked anyway.

quote:

When troubled English pilot, "Simon," returns to land, he is forced to do a "go-around" because he had failed to put down his landing gear. Two of the more experienced pilots launch into an evidently familiar routine:
Pilot Officer Archie: "You can teach..."
Sergeant Pilot Andy joins in: "...monkeys to fly better than that!" --
"Battle of Britain (film)." Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia. 21 Jun 2008, 14:56 UTC. Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. 4 Jul 2008

The Mustang would do every thing that the Spit would do, but it would do it for 10 hours!

Either way this was waiting for them...

Pick your poison

A 2 A vs A 2 G...the Jug is a big ol beast...

Never seen one fly...

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
A 2 A vs A 2 G...the Jug is a big ol beast...

Never seen one fly...

The P-47 is deceptive until you walk up to it and the top of the tires is nearly to your waist. I have seen a few at air shows. Lots were built compared to the FW.

This monster makes the 47 look like an ultra-light...any guesses??

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
This monster makes the 47 look like an ultra-light...any guesses??

No, would not care to guess - but I'll tell you it is a 'Spad' aka the Skyraider. Tons of these things flew CAP in 'nam, lot of downed pilots will tell you they would not be alive today if it were not for the old Spad and the guys that flew them.
Great old airplane with a lot of good features,carried a ton of fuel and ammo and could stay on target for a long time. Quite an aircraft!

Amazing they started producing them during WWII and were still in use recently. Guy flies one out of nearby airport. Very impressive when down on the deck.

quote:

Originally posted by TrapperP:

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
This monster makes the 47 look like an ultra-light...any guesses??

No, would not care to guess - but I'll tell you it is a 'Spad' aka the Skyraider. Tons of these things flew CAP in 'nam, lot of downed pilots will tell you they would not be alive today if it were not for the old Spad and the guys that flew them.
Great old airplane with a lot of good features,carried a ton of fuel and ammo and could stay on target for a long time. Quite an aircraft!

Should have added they were often callsign 'Sandy' - I'll add a bit of 'fluff:'
"Rescue helicopters were escorted by specially-trained pilots flying propeller-driven A-1E Skyraiders (call sign Sandy). These adaptable aircraft were used as escorts for rescue helicopters on recovery missions for downed crew members, providing fire suppression to hold the enemy at bay while the helicopters performed the rescue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5kNlb0prOE&feature=related

The A-1 was known as the 'Spad' when not dedicated to the role of search and rescue escort. While Sandys would escort and remain with the Jolly Greens, sometimes the need for some extra suppression was called for and Spads would be called in to soften up the area."
A typical loadup for an A-1H 139-665 was 8 x CBU-25, 2 x BLU-32 500 lb napalm, 2 x SUU-11 minigun pods and 4 x 20mm cannons with 343 rpg.
And I must state with apologies, we have once again hijacked the thread!

Yes...but I doubt Rusty minds since we're sorta on topic.

Thanks for the tech stuff on the weapons load. Didn't know about the 4 x 20mm.

A Mig 17 tried to fly between two Spads in Vietnam. The operative word is tried .... the 20MMs ate his plane.

Shyraiders vs Mig 17

Same thing happened at Bay of Pigs I believe with Seafury and Mig-15...

Excellent photo..I had read the story before but never seen a photo of the Rig.

i'll try and get back on subject again - well, close to back on subject. I'm copying the leadin for a story from the AJC re a WWII vet that lives in our little village and flew all throught the battle of Britain. I once heard him say that the Spitfire [he did not fly the Spit but rather served in Beaufighters] was not the best, was not the fastest, etc. "But it was all we had!" Quite a testament to a great little airplane.
http://www.ajc.com/search/content/metro/atlanta/stories/2008/07/03/raf.html
Any problems I'll post up the entire article.

Yep while a lot of praise has been heaped on the Mustang but a lot of the really dirty work beating down the Axis was done by the older fighters.

Bad to the bone.

Just saw this thread. The Spitfire also had a variable pitch prop. You had to change from coarse to fine pitch in order to take off. Douglas Bader crashed when he forgot to do so. I am not qualified to judge which planes were better or worse. The trade offs of climb rate and manoverability between the opposing planes were well know at the time, and tactics adjusted accordingly. The fact remains that pilots were thrown into combat with less than 20 hours of solo flying. The survival rate was measured in hours. If you survived the first week, your prospects were good! The fact remains that the combination of Hurricanes and Spitfires, flying over home territory was sufficient to defeat the will of the enemy. Let's not forget the pilots, many of whom were Canadian. NZ, Australian, South African and of course, even American!
Peter.

quote:

sufficient to defeat the will of the enemy

Hardly.....there was a change in strategy on the part of the offense which inadvertently facilitated the survival of the defense.

The Anglo delusion that somehow the free world was saved by the Spirfire is comical indeed...

The free world was saved by the incompetence of the supreme Axis leader.

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:

quote:

sufficient to defeat the will of the enemy

Hardly.....there was a change in strategy on the part of the offense which inadvertently facilitated the survival of the defense.

The Anglo delusion that somehow the free world was saved by the Spirfire is comical indeed...

The free world was saved by the incompetence of the supreme Axis leader.

Had old Adolph been just a tiny bit more competent such as avoiding the Battle of the Bulge or some such, just enough to last 3 more months and he would been smoked by a B-29...

quote:

avoiding the Battle of the Bulge or some such

Avoiding an Eastern front... would have been good for starters.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
Just saw this thread. The Spitfire also had a variable pitch prop. You had to change from coarse to fine pitch in order to take off. Douglas Bader crashed when he forgot to do so. I am not qualified to judge which planes were better or worse. The trade offs of climb rate and manoverability between the opposing planes were well know at the time, and tactics adjusted accordingly. The fact remains that pilots were thrown into combat with less than 20 hours of solo flying. The survival rate was measured in hours. If you survived the first week, your prospects were good! The fact remains that the combination of Hurricanes and Spitfires, flying over home territory was sufficient to defeat the will of the enemy. Let's not forget the pilots, many of whom were Canadian. NZ, Australian, South African and of course, even American!
Peter.

and French http://www.acesofww2.com/france/France.htm

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
The Anglo delusion that somehow the free world was saved by the Spirfire is comical indeed...

Nope, just the UK...But as also mentioned, Hurricanes also played a huge part, then there was Radar and of course Ultra....

However you want to slice it, when the Germans failed to win air superiority during that Battle of Britain, they effectively lost the chance to invade. Even the Germans realised this with Operation Sealion first being postponed and then eventually abandoned, all before either America or Russia entered the war...

You can argue the "what ifs" and "maybe's" but those events are historical facts...

quote:

Originally posted by DMCI*:

The Mustang would do every thing that the Spit would do, but it would do it for 10 hours!

Yes, and originally built at the request of the British to a British specification for use by the RAF...Even the "Mustang" name was British with the USAAF calling it initially the "Apache" but eventually adopting the now famous "Mustang" designation..

The Mustang fist saw active service with the RAF, but its highlevel performance was lacking.

It wasn't until R&R shoe horned the more powerful Merlin engine into it, did it really excel...I'm pretty sure that the Merlin then went on to be produced under license in the USA and fitted to the Mustang..

Anybody know if the Merlin was used in any other US aircraft??

Regards,

Pete

Superceded by derivative Packard V-1650??

quote:

Originally posted by Pete E:

quote:

Originally posted by DMCI*:

The Mustang would do every thing that the Spit would do, but it would do it for 10 hours!

Yes, and originally built at the request of the British to a British specification for use by the RAF...Even the "Mustang" name was British with the USAAF calling it initially the "Apache" but eventually adopting the now famous "Mustang" designation..

The Mustang fist saw active service with the RAF, but its highlevel performance was lacking.

It wasn't until R&R shoe horned the more powerful Merlin engine into it, did it really excel...I'm pretty sure that the Merlin then went on to be produced under license in the USA and fitted to the Mustang..

Anybody know if the Merlin was used in any other US aircraft??

Regards,

Pete

The P-40 seems to get no respect but was very maneuverable at higher speeds, had a strong airframe, and was well armored.
The Merlin powered P-40 F & L would have been killers when flown by pilots familiar with the planes strengths.

Quote...

P-40F and P-40L, which both featured Packard Merlin engine in place of the normal Allison, and thus did not have the carburetor scoop on top of the nose. Performance for these models at higher altitudes was better than their Allison-engined cousins. The L in some cases also featured a fillet in front of the vertical stabilizer, or a stretched fuselage to compensate for the higher torque. The P-40L was sometimes nicknamed "Gypsy Rose Lee," after a famous stripper of the era, due to its stripped-down condition. Supplied to the Commonwealth air forces under the designation Kittyhawk Mk II, a total of 330 Mk IIs were supplied to the RAF under Lend-Lease. The first 230 aircraft are sometimes known as the Kittyhawk Mk IIA. The P-40F/L was extensively used by U.S. fighter groups operating in the Mediterranian Theater.


At least a few folks have wondered why the P-38 was not equipped with the Packard built Merlins. Seems there was some sort of political intrigue that prevented it. Probably an Army/Allison conflict.

One can only wonder what a P-39 variant might have done with a Merlin crammed into it.

quote:

sufficient to defeat the will of the enemy

Sorry Macifej, but I think you are totally wrong! I used the phrase "the will of the enemy" deliberately. I did NOT say defeated the enemy. Dowding understood exactly what it would take to defeat the enemy namely deny them air superiority. To do this he had to attack the bombers. Cowboys like Douglas Bader and Leigh Mallory while brave, did not understand this. They thought you had to shoot down more enemy fighters. In this the British failed! They could not shoot down enough of them. Initial ratios of 3 to one were incorrect and Dowding knew this. It was a battle of logistics, and the Germans NEARLY won! It was their WILL that was defeated. Read the history. Dowding was treated shamefully. Fortunately history has shown him to be correct. As has been pointed out Sealion was cancelled before the Eastern front was opened. There was no shortage of planes. There was shortage of pilots! On the German side, their fighters were hampered by lack of time over target. They could not protect the bombers. Additionally Goering screwed up. he insisted that the fighters protect the bombers by providing close support instead of doing what they should have been doing.
Peter.

Almost as pretty as a Spit, The P51?, Didn't they have to hang a Merlin on it?

I love the P-51. I fly one in FS2004. I have a P-38, a P-82 and a B-17. The warbirds really do it for me. I love the sounds of four engines lifting a heavy bombload for loving delivery to the Germans...

quote:

Originally posted by ireload2:


One can only wonder what a P-39 variant might have done with a Merlin crammed into it.

They built two P63 King Cobras with Packard-Merlin engines to find out. Top speed of 437 MPH. They could not procure production engines because of the Mustang and went with a later Allison variant that had similar performance. Most of these were built for the Russians.

quote:

The free world was saved by the incompetence of the supreme Axis leader.

You hit the nail squarely on the head!

It was a looong time ago, but in the early 70s, I got to fly in the Lancaster bomber that was part of the team consisting of the Lanc, a Spitfire and a Hurricane and if I remember correctly, was called the Memorial Flight.... so probably the very aircraft in the video that Pete posted.............

Flew from Biggin Hill as part of the Battle of Britain air show, down to the coast for a flyby of two other shows of some kind and back to Biggin Hill......... it was like sitting inside a drum whilst it was being beaten by a bunch of drunken giants.

Well I guess my AR handle here gives my feelings about Spitfires/Seafires ( Spitfire handles were too common, so I picked Seafire instead)...

however, my favorite WW 2 fighter of all sides was the P47N posted above..my favorite fighter group to read about historically is the 56th, flying P 47s the entire war...

my favorite Bomb Group to read about was the 303rd... as I went to school for 3 yrs in England on their old home station, RAF Molesworth...

There were a lot of really great aircraft in WW2, and even while picking 'favorites' doesn't mean some of the others are that far behind in personal popularity...