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| One of Us |
$140 million down the drain. Ouch
https://www.businessinsider.co...ir-force-base-2020-5 ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | ||
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That's crazy! Glad that the pilot is OK I know that I'm late to the part asking this but does anyone know why the F22 is no longer in production? If it's the best fighter in the world doesn't the USA want to maintain superiority over any other fighter? | |||
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Everyone said it was too expensive, so they introduced the F-35 the most expensive piece of crap ever. The Navy version (F-35C) costs $337 million a copy. Never let the military talk you into a weapon system. Another darling was the Bradley Fighting Vehicle - aka Turd On Tracks. We will never learn. We should have stuck with the F-22 and the F-15 Silent Eagle. ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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It was canceled after the Cold War ended. At the time the politicians decided that since no one else had a gen 5 fighter and wouldn't for at least 20 years why build more. The original proposal was for 750. Of course now both Russia and China have comparable fighters in less than 20 years. It's the politicians not the military that drives what and how many gets built. I worked on the F-22 program from the outset starting with the ATF, YF-22 and F-22 production. Roger ___________________________ I'm a trophy hunter - until something better comes along. *we band of 45-70ers* | |||
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Here's a good explanation why the program ended - https://www.defensereview.com/...nsereview-weighs-in/ ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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| One of Us |
Wow that's crazy! Be that as it may, what will we have to go up against the latest Russian and Chinese fighters if it isn't the F22? Maybe they have a secret program in the works? Doesn't sound good.. | |||
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| One of Us |
This is the future - https://www.thedrive.com/the-w...-loyal-wingman-drone And at $2 million a copy, it is a freaking bargain. And the Kratos - https://www.kratosdefense.com/...aerial/tactical-uavs Both can be controlled from the ground or though secure transmission from an manned combat or support aircraft. Once we start to get the man out of the cockpit, acquisition costs and time to market change quickly. If we had bypassed the F-35, we would already be way ahead. The F-35 program sucked all innovation and development; and not just combat aircraft. ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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That is INCREDIBLE!! | |||
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I guess , in Warfare, the point of two machines battling it out, without humans directly involved escapes me.  Grizz When the horse has been eliminated, human life may be extended an average of five or more years. James R. Doolitle I think they've been misunderstood. Timothy Tredwell | |||
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| One of Us |
Comparing the F-22 to a P-51 during WWII is ridiculous. It's a totally different world now. The report is a little fact and a lot of theory. The F-22 program was a fixed price contract. But yes they do get the total development cost regardless of numbers actually built so a lower number costs more than the original 750. EMD and the like is controlled by the DOD and the Air Firce not the manufacturer. The production rate is also dictated by congress In some years we built only 3 aircraft. The manufacturers would love to build as fast as possible but aren't allowed. Nothing like trying to maintain a skilled workforce that has to sit around most of the year doing little or nothing. But of course the media experts will just blame it on the evil manufactures. As I said earlier at least half of what is reported is fantasy especially the idea that about using an F-15 no matter how improved against any gen 5 fighter. It would make for a very short dogfight and not in the favor of the F-15. Roger ___________________________ I'm a trophy hunter - until something better comes along. *we band of 45-70ers* | |||
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The point that was being made is how the military procurement system operates today vs back when it was purely about getting advanced technology into the air. From the 1970's onward, the military procurement system was more about politics and less about an efficient production system. New weapons systems had to be spread over as many manufacturers and states as possible so that Congress would see the funding benefit for their State. It is a screwed up system that is now being realized in the F-35 which has so many design and production problems that some may never be corrected before it's end of life. https://taskandpurpose.com/mil...er-deficiencies-2020 Anyhow, politics and defence contractors are a bad mix and will only net more F-35's in our future. ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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A fun movie on how screwed up the system has become. The Pentagon Wars ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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| One of Us |
Where I worked we developed and manufactured the canopy removal rocket motor, for when the pilot ejects. I guess it works. M | |||
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Amazing when you think about it that even a 300 Million dollar piece of machinery isn’t immune from failure | |||
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| One of Us |
I go along with you there! Even from my little corner of the program I could write a book on the procurement headaches. Not only was there a requirement to spread it across many states but the government added the requirement to get small minority owned businesses into the system. Many had never been exposed to all the hoops they needed to jump threw just to become a supplier and how to understand and build to a mil spec. Plus many had never built parts even remotely like what was needed from them. On top of that the previously mentioned rate changes from year to also very much effects the small supplier. Getting spooled up and training a workforce only to build a small number per year hurts them too. I spent countless hours training these companies on what was needed from the manufacturing side. The contract side was somebody else's problem. When people wonder why things cost so much just taking a look at the long list of requirements will answer a lot the questions. But this is never reported. We often said the F-22 is a Swiss watch with wings when you look at how picky the fine details are in its construction. You would never see that kind of effort put into a commercial aircraft. But it is a good airplane and has had an excellent safety record compared to most other fighters. Glad the pilot ejected ok in this recent incident. Roger ___________________________ I'm a trophy hunter - until something better comes along. *we band of 45-70ers* | |||
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300 million? You could have bought two for that. Besides if man built it, Murphy can still destroy it. Roger ___________________________ I'm a trophy hunter - until something better comes along. *we band of 45-70ers* | |||
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You know how the procurement process works. They average (and guess) the cost over all Blocks and versions. It is estimated the "current" real cost of a single Air Force F-35A is $148 million, the Marine Corps F-35B version is $251 million and the Navy F-35C version is $337 million. Of course the real costs are quite well hidden within the program. It is estimated that the current total project acquisition cost is $1.196 Trillion and that's up $22 billion over last year's prediction to adjust for inflation and more cost overruns. And the total cost will be somewhere in the $1.5 trillion range, but that's only an estimate. I would bet we see another couple of $100 billion or more in hidden costs before this all ends. Wouldn't hurt my feelings at all to see this project cut and soon. ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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