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Could your flight attendant land your plane?
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Posts: 3837 | Location: SC,USA | Registered: 07 March 2002Reply With Quote
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Somehow that is not totally reassuring...

Wink


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Posts: 22445 | Location: Occupying Little Minds Rent Free | Registered: 04 October 2012Reply With Quote
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Every time we tried to put a private pilot/non pilot into a sim, even with coaching, they crashed. How would a flight attendant even know how to work the audio panel to call for help in a modern aircraft?

It the pilots die, so do you.


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Posts: 842 | Location: Dallas, Iowa, USA | Registered: 05 June 2004Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by f224:
Every time we tried to put a private pilot/non pilot into a sim, even with coaching, they crashed. How would a flight attendant even know how to work the audio panel to call for help in a modern aircraft?

It the pilots die, so do you.


Without serious coaching most can not figure out how to operate the com panel. Without coms they are seriously up the creek. With coms I've had several get close but they've all crashed in the end.



 
Posts: 5210 | Registered: 23 July 2002Reply With Quote
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Well, it was an Airbus - there's the first mistake...


Dave
 
Posts: 927 | Location: AKexpat | Registered: 27 October 2008Reply With Quote
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A quick Google yielded that the 737-400 and the Airbus 320 were the only current airliners with the AutoLand system. Do you think this was a ruse? IE the plane was on AutoLand and it appeared the stew landed it?
 
Posts: 3837 | Location: SC,USA | Registered: 07 March 2002Reply With Quote
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These days, getting in the cockpit might be the first major challenge!! Cool

Cheers,


470EDDY
 
Posts: 2690 | Location: The Other Washington | Registered: 24 March 2003Reply With Quote
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Do not Use for training purpose. Smiler

Grizz


Indeed, no human being has yet lived under conditions which, considering the prevailing climates of the past, can be regarded as normal. John E Pfeiffer, The Emergence of Man

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Posts: 4211 | Location: Alta. Canada | Registered: 06 November 2002Reply With Quote
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Never say Never, passenger lands King Air after pilot dies
Part 2
Plane was beat up but the passenger managed to do it.


If you have that much to fight for, then you should be fighting. The sentiment that modern day ordinary Canadians do not need firearms for protection is pleasant but unrealistic. To discourage responsible deserving Canadians from possessing firearms for lawful self-defence and other legitimate purposes is to risk sacrificing them at the altar of political correctness."

- Alberta Provincial Court Judge Demetrick

 
Posts: 615 | Location: Alberta | Registered: 17 November 2004Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Bobster:
A quick Google yielded that the 737-400 and the Airbus 320 were the only current airliners with the AutoLand system. Do you think this was a ruse? IE the plane was on AutoLand and it appeared the stew landed it?


Google is wrong, virtually every airliner after the B737-300 has auto-land. Regardless, you sill have to configure for it, and even with coaching, it's not gonna happen.


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Posts: 842 | Location: Dallas, Iowa, USA | Registered: 05 June 2004Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by Canuck32:
Never say Never, passenger lands King Air after pilot dies
Part 2
Plane was beat up but the passenger managed to do it.


Getting it on the ground is easy, not crashing it is hard. I have almost 1000 hours in KingAir's in the last three years and 9000+ hours in Airliners in my career. Landing the KingAir is a piece of cake compared to a transport category airplane. The KingAir is much more forgiving of speed and configuration deviations.


Captain Dave Funk
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Posts: 842 | Location: Dallas, Iowa, USA | Registered: 05 June 2004Reply With Quote
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I recall that even pre-400 model 747's and DC-10's 25 years ago had Auto Land functionality.

I spent some time in a Boeing owned full motion 747 Simulator in the 90's and as a GA Cessna/Piper driver had no problems doing multiple approaches and landings in all configurations (full auto Land, auto throttle only, full hand flying), very simple to select, into places like the old Hong Kong airport....no crashes. The instructor threw all kinds of complications at me the longer we played... engine out, fires, heavy crosswinds, etc. It was fun and YES I was sweating!!

I will say my partner, who actually bought the auction item that got us in....and a private pilot, many years not current, nor our non-pilot wives didn't do so hot....but the aircraft did get on the ground!!

Let's hope that the Flight Attendant who might be called upon for this duty is somewhat trained....or there is a professional pilot among the passengers!!

Cheers,


470EDDY
 
Posts: 2690 | Location: The Other Washington | Registered: 24 March 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by 470EDDY:
I recall that even pre-400 model 747's and DC-10's 25 years ago had Auto Land functionality.

I spent some time in a Boeing owned full motion 747 Simulator in the 90's and as a GA Cessna/Piper driver had no problems doing multiple approaches and landings in all configurations (full auto Land, auto throttle only, full hand flying), very simple to select, into places like the old Hong Kong airport....no crashes. The instructor threw all kinds of complications at me the longer we played... engine out, fires, heavy crosswinds, etc. It was fun and YES I was sweating!!

I will say my partner, who actually bought the auction item that got us in....and a private pilot, many years not current, nor our non-pilot wives didn't do so hot....but the aircraft did get on the ground!!

Let's hope that the Flight Attendant who might be called upon for this duty is somewhat trained....or there is a professional pilot among the passengers!!

Cheers,


Once again, some one there to coach you on the configurations. Imagine looking at the cockpit and just thinking you can pick up the radio microphone and get an answer? The overhead speakers are almost never turned on at most airlines. What are the odds that there is even a properly qualified pilot who can come into the ATC Center, Approach, or tower facility to talk someone down?

That crap only happens in movies. Knowing you will die without help does not focus most people, it causes panic.


Captain Dave Funk
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Posts: 842 | Location: Dallas, Iowa, USA | Registered: 05 June 2004Reply With Quote
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I put a fairly experienced GA guy in a 777 sim once. We started out at FL370 150 miles from KIAD. The first run trough I gave zero coaching. They died. With coaching he got on the ground With only minor damage. One of the things that is very different for light GA guys is the speed and high decent rate for a big jet on final.



 
Posts: 5210 | Registered: 23 July 2002Reply With Quote
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Surestrike, I agree....or even more so, high sink rate if you get behind it...and spool up time for a fanjet vs prop. That even caused serious issues for senior Captains during transition from props to old 707's and later younger prop captains going to 727's.
I also must admit that I do have some "fam time" while I was a dispatcher in the Air Force and in our Company Biz machines....however 30/20 years prior respectively to Boeing sim time.
I actually feel that GA singles/twins to be a bit more challenging/squirrely in wind and weather than larger aircraft...??
Also today,it is more of a computer game with glass cockpits...I am NOT SURE if I would do so well today in the glass cockpit environment being an old steam gauge type!!
Stick, rudder n throttles, visual would be a pretty big challenge in a Big Jet!!...and worse if you had to make an instrument approach on glass and not fully conversant on that!!
Cheers,


470EDDY
 
Posts: 2690 | Location: The Other Washington | Registered: 24 March 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by 470EDDY:
Surestrike, I agree....or even more so, high sink rate if you get behind it...and spool up time for a fanjet vs prop. That even caused serious issues for senior Captains during transition from props to old 707's and later younger prop captains going to 727's.
I also must admit that I do have some "fam time" while I was a dispatcher in the Air Force and in our Company Biz machines....however 30/20 years prior respectively to Boeing sim time.
I actually feel that GA singles/twins to be a bit more challenging/squirrely in wind and weather than larger aircraft...??
Also today,it is more of a computer game with glass cockpits...I am NOT SURE if I would do so well today in the glass cockpit environment being an old steam gauge type!!
Stick, rudder n throttles, visual would be a pretty big challenge in a Big Jet!!...and worse if you had to make an instrument approach on glass and not fully conversant on that!!
Cheers,


Just ask the guy in SFO who's crashed a B777 who had 10000 hours. He killed people doing a visual approach on a clear and calm day. If it were IFR at least he could have used auto land and an instrument approach.


Captain Dave Funk
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Posts: 842 | Location: Dallas, Iowa, USA | Registered: 05 June 2004Reply With Quote
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YUP...but it was his first flight as Captain on the 777...and the ILS was OUT!!

Thank goodness for US training standards...and also the seniority that keeps "juniors" out of the left seat on HEAVIES!!

After thinking further about this Thread, I am going up to our local Sim Guru and take a glass cockpit check out and get IFR current again...on GLASS!!

Cheers,


470EDDY
 
Posts: 2690 | Location: The Other Washington | Registered: 24 March 2003Reply With Quote
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Might have needed the flight attendant to land the plane here.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/...onych-bail-1.3919750

Convicted and jail bound.

Grizz


Indeed, no human being has yet lived under conditions which, considering the prevailing climates of the past, can be regarded as normal. John E Pfeiffer, The Emergence of Man

Those who can't skin, can hold a leg. Abraham Lincoln

Only one war at a time. Abe Again.
 
Posts: 4211 | Location: Alta. Canada | Registered: 06 November 2002Reply With Quote
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