A380 Clips CRJ at JFK

13 April 2011, 22:31

Allan DeGroot

A) from my point of view that airbus was taxing too fast.

B) I cannot believe that that CRJ700 doesn't have more damage than just to the empenage.

the way it was jerked through 90degrees would make me real suspicious of the structure that the landing gear and structure it is mounted to, particularly on the starboard side.

I would take it as an article of faith that the tires on the mains are trashed.

14 April 2011, 00:23

TrapperP

Update and further info re the collision:

http://news.yahoo.com/video/us...90632#video=24890632

Seems most airports simply cannot handle the A380?

14 April 2011, 09:45

surestrike

It seems to me that the RJ shouldn't have stopped short and if he did should have said something to ground control.

Plain and simple if the RJ would have been where he was supposed to be this collision wouldn't have happened.

Of course there are multiple causal factors but that's the meat and potatoes of the accident.

14 April 2011, 22:50

f224

quote:
Originally posted by surestrike:
It seems to me that the RJ shouldn't have stopped short and if he did should have said something to ground control.

Plain and simple if the RJ would have been where he was supposed to be this collision wouldn't have happened.

Of course there are multiple causal factors but that's the meat and potatoes of the accident.

The FAA General Council has issued several opinions and directives about taxi clearances (the kind that can cost your 60 days off and $10k+ in fines). The Port Authority of NY controls the ramp and you must talk to them to get clearance onto the ramp area before you can proceed past the hold line.

I would be cautious about making any comments about ComAir's position until the full report comes out in several months.

Regarding the structure of both aircraft. These airplanes are built to withstand Mach 1 airspeeds, they are amazingly strong for their weight and the limited damage in this low speed impact does not surprise me.

14 April 2011, 23:39

Grizzly Adams

Proves again, do a good thing and nobody notices, but screw up and sure as shit, somebody will be there, with a video cam.

Grizz

15 April 2011, 00:21

Macifej

Wonder if the ComAir aft passengers had an "E" stamped on their tickets ..??

17 April 2011, 02:21

surestrike

quote:
Originally posted by f224:
quote:
Originally posted by surestrike:
It seems to me that the RJ shouldn't have stopped short and if he did should have said something to ground control.

Plain and simple if the RJ would have been where he was supposed to be this collision wouldn't have happened.

Of course there are multiple causal factors but that's the meat and potatoes of the accident.

The FAA General Council has issued several opinions and directives about taxi clearances (the kind that can cost your 60 days off and $10k+ in fines). The Port Authority of NY controls the ramp and you must talk to them to get clearance onto the ramp area before you can proceed past the hold line.

I would be cautious about making any comments about ComAir's position until the full report comes out in several months.

Regarding the structure of both aircraft. These airplanes are built to withstand Mach 1 airspeeds, they are amazingly strong for their weight and the limited damage in this low speed impact does not surprise me.

You are correct caution is in order at this stage. I wonder if there are any cautions/restrictions about that area in regards to wing span on the 10-9 page?

17 April 2011, 08:23

TWL

So, what is the status of the two flight crews, pending the outcome of the investigation?
Do they get benched? Who makes this call?

And, if the call is made by US FAA types, can Air France disregard any tempoary US sanctions and use its air crew on other, non-US routes?

And what is the status of the ground control personel responsible for ground traffic? Still working?

18 April 2011, 05:26

surestrike

Depending on the severity of the accident most airlines will place all involved on paid leave until the facts are discovered. I know several pilots who have had ground collisions with equipment or slow speed bumps with other planes. Most were back to work within days if not hours.

The FAA has no authority in France but they could bar these pilots from operating in the USA if there were due cause. I doubt that to be the case here.

I don't know if the ground controllers have any liability or not in this circumstance but I know the FAA has a protocol for these things I just don't know exactly what it is.

21 April 2011, 03:53

f224

quote:

You are correct caution is in order at this stage. I wonder if there are any cautions/restrictions about that area in regards to wing span on the 10-9 page?

They would be on both the 10-9 pages and the airline only 10-7 pages.

21 April 2011, 21:15

surestrike

No they SHOULD be on the 10-9 and the 10-7. That was my point, did JFK airport just learn about that choke point and tip clearance the expensive way?

It wouldn't be the first time that an airport wasn't surveyed and marked correctly for a large new comer airframe. When I worked in the training department we'd see those kind of mistakes all the time at airports.

22 April 2011, 03:34

jetdrvr

This one will take a bit of time to sort out.

That 380 was going too damned fast, whatever the case. Must've been doin 30 knots.

24 April 2011, 08:57

surestrike

quote:
Originally posted by jetdrvr:
This one will take a bit of time to sort out.

That 380 was going too damned fast, whatever the case. Must've been doin 30 knots.

Being that it was an Airbus maybe his brake and steering computer was taking a time out. They do that from time to time. But only on the ground while you are taxing.I shit you not Fred, On the A-320/A-319 if you make any electrical power change IE start an engine and bring a generator online while you are touching the brakes or making a steering input the thing can and will freak out. It might make a hard over turn or apply maximum braking or it might just ignore any and all braking and steering inputs for a moment or two.

So the procedure is if you are going to start an engine or the APU for that matter you during taxi you have to have the engine or APU gen switch off. After the F/O starts the engine during a taxi or the APU he asks you if you are clear. You take your feet off the rudders and brakes and your hands off the tiller and then and only then the F/O brings the gen on line. After it takes power you are safe to start steering and applying brakes again.

I am not kidding..What a great airplane!!

24 April 2011, 19:50

f224

quote:
Originally posted by surestrike:
quote:
Originally posted by jetdrvr:
This one will take a bit of time to sort out.

That 380 was going too damned fast, whatever the case. Must've been doin 30 knots.

Being that it was an Airbus maybe his brake and steering computer was taking a time out. They do that from time to time. But only on the ground while you are taxing.I shit you not Fred, On the A-320/A-319 if you make any electrical power change IE start an engine and bring a generator online while you are touching the brakes or making a steering input the thing can and will freak out. It might make a hard over turn or apply maximum braking or it might just ignore any and all braking and steering inputs for a moment or two.

So the procedure is if you are going to start an engine or the APU for that matter you during taxi you have to have the engine or APU gen switch off. After the F/O starts the engine during a taxi or the APU he asks you if you are clear. You take your feet off the rudders and brakes and your hands off the tiller and then and only then the F/O brings the gen on line. After it takes power you are safe to start steering and applying brakes again.

I am not kidding..What a great airplane!!

After I heard one of our A320 Captains could not explain why the airplane took an unscheduled left turn at the outer marker, I knew I would never bid-or fly that airplane as a crewmember at NWA...

25 April 2011, 03:18

surestrike

quote:
Originally posted by f224:
quote:
Originally posted by surestrike:
quote:
Originally posted by jetdrvr:
This one will take a bit of time to sort out.

That 380 was going too damned fast, whatever the case. Must've been doin 30 knots.

Being that it was an Airbus maybe his brake and steering computer was taking a time out. They do that from time to time. But only on the ground while you are taxing.I shit you not Fred, On the A-320/A-319 if you make any electrical power change IE start an engine and bring a generator online while you are touching the brakes or making a steering input the thing can and will freak out. It might make a hard over turn or apply maximum braking or it might just ignore any and all braking and steering inputs for a moment or two.

So the procedure is if you are going to start an engine or the APU for that matter you during taxi you have to have the engine or APU gen switch off. After the F/O starts the engine during a taxi or the APU he asks you if you are clear. You take your feet off the rudders and brakes and your hands off the tiller and then and only then the F/O brings the gen on line. After it takes power you are safe to start steering and applying brakes again.

I am not kidding..What a great airplane!!

After I heard one of our A320 Captains could not explain why the airplane took an unscheduled left turn at the outer marker, I knew I would never bid-or fly that airplane as a crewmember at NWA...

Dave,

Having extensive experience in both Boeing and Airbus I don't care what anybody says. There has never been an Airbus product built that could can even come close the quality and safety of a Boeing.

The one and ONLY reason Airlines buy Airbuses is that the financing is so cheap they can't afford not to.

25 April 2011, 10:44

jetdrvr

quote:
Originally posted by surestrike:
quote:
Originally posted by f224:
quote:
Originally posted by surestrike:
quote:
Originally posted by jetdrvr:
This one will take a bit of time to sort out.

That 380 was going too damned fast, whatever the case. Must've been doin 30 knots.

Being that it was an Airbus maybe his brake and steering computer was taking a time out. They do that from time to time. But only on the ground while you are taxing.I shit you not Fred, On the A-320/A-319 if you make any electrical power change IE start an engine and bring a generator online while you are touching the brakes or making a steering input the thing can and will freak out. It might make a hard over turn or apply maximum braking or it might just ignore any and all braking and steering inputs for a moment or two.

So the procedure is if you are going to start an engine or the APU for that matter you during taxi you have to have the engine or APU gen switch off. After the F/O starts the engine during a taxi or the APU he asks you if you are clear. You take your feet off the rudders and brakes and your hands off the tiller and then and only then the F/O brings the gen on line. After it takes power you are safe to start steering and applying brakes again.

I am not kidding..What a great airplane!!

After I heard one of our A320 Captains could not explain why the airplane took an unscheduled left turn at the outer marker, I knew I would never bid-or fly that airplane as a crewmember at NWA...

Dave,

Having extensive experience in both Boeing and Airbus I don't care what anybody says. There has never been an Airbus product built that could can even come close the quality and safety of a Boeing.

The one and ONLY reason Airlines buy Airbuses is that the financing is so cheap they can't afford not to.

That's pretty wild about he thing just doing what it wants to. Thought they fixed that tendency when the chief test pilot flew that one into the trees all those years ago. I know I always start to sweat when I board one.

26 April 2011, 07:13

f224

quote:
Originally posted by jetdrvr:
quote:
Originally posted by surestrike:
quote:
Originally posted by f224:
quote:
Originally posted by surestrike:
quote:
Originally posted by jetdrvr:
This one will take a bit of time to sort out.

That 380 was going too damned fast, whatever the case. Must've been doin 30 knots.

Being that it was an Airbus maybe his brake and steering computer was taking a time out. They do that from time to time. But only on the ground while you are taxing.I shit you not Fred, On the A-320/A-319 if you make any electrical power change IE start an engine and bring a generator online while you are touching the brakes or making a steering input the thing can and will freak out. It might make a hard over turn or apply maximum braking or it might just ignore any and all braking and steering inputs for a moment or two.

So the procedure is if you are going to start an engine or the APU for that matter you during taxi you have to have the engine or APU gen switch off. After the F/O starts the engine during a taxi or the APU he asks you if you are clear. You take your feet off the rudders and brakes and your hands off the tiller and then and only then the F/O brings the gen on line. After it takes power you are safe to start steering and applying brakes again.

I am not kidding..What a great airplane!!

After I heard one of our A320 Captains could not explain why the airplane took an unscheduled left turn at the outer marker, I knew I would never bid-or fly that airplane as a crewmember at NWA...

Dave,

Having extensive experience in both Boeing and Airbus I don't care what anybody says. There has never been an Airbus product built that could can even come close the quality and safety of a Boeing.

The one and ONLY reason Airlines buy Airbuses is that the financing is so cheap they can't afford not to.

That's pretty wild about he thing just doing what it wants to. Thought they fixed that tendency when the chief test pilot flew that one into the trees all those years ago. I know I always start to sweat when I board one.

Bingo guys, the old saying "If it ain't Boeing, I'm not going" applies...