Wherever it is, they speak English. I love it how Mom tells her kid, "Don't be afraid" at the 8 second mark.

Toncontin Int'l, Tegucigalpa Honduras.

Thanks. That's some approach.

Believe or not. A C-17 successfully landed there a few times.

Look like he slipped it in, didnt appear to be any crosswind because the smoke didnt drift after touchdown. Is this a VFR day only runway for heavys? I would not want to be on board at night, doesnt appear to be much room for error!

I am sure glad no one expects me to go there, I don't do scary landings in big planes very well and that appears to be just that.
Perfect airport for helicopter operations.

That airport was one of ten featured on a History Channel show on July 21 entitled "World's Most Extreme Airports." The one under the Rock of Gibraltar is a bad one because of winds swirling around the Rock and clouds obliterating it most of the time. Kai-Tak was so bad they closed it in 1998. The one at Vail (might be Aspen), I think, is another bad one. The one at Princess Julianne has the jets coming over at baseball-cap level. The worst is Lukla in Nepal. I fool around a lot with the Microsoft FS 2004 flightsim. The challenge at Lukla is to land the An-225 there. Many have tried. Most attempts have ended up as nose-to-mountain affairs-- or worse...

quote:

Originally posted by homebrewer:
That airport was one of ten featured on a History Channel show on July 21 entitled "World's Most Extreme Airports." The one under the Rock of Gibraltar is a bad one because of winds swirling around the Rock and clouds obliterating it most of the time. Kai-Tak was so bad they closed it in 1998. The one at Vail (might be Aspen), I think, is another bad one. The one at Princess Julianne has the jets coming over at baseball-cap level. The worst is Lukla in Nepal. I fool around a lot with the Microsoft FS 2004 flightsim. The challenge at Lukla is to land the An-225 there. Many have tried. Most attempts have ended up as nose-to-mountain affairs-- or worse...

Nobody is even going to take an AN-225 anywhere near Lukla as the only aircraft that can reliably get in and out of Tenzing-Hillary are Twin Otters and the little Dorner 229

quote:

Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:

quote:

Originally posted by homebrewer:
That airport was one of ten featured on a History Channel show on July 21 entitled "World's Most Extreme Airports." The one under the Rock of Gibraltar is a bad one because of winds swirling around the Rock and clouds obliterating it most of the time. Kai-Tak was so bad they closed it in 1998. The one at Vail (might be Aspen), I think, is another bad one. The one at Princess Julianne has the jets coming over at baseball-cap level. The worst is Lukla in Nepal. I fool around a lot with the Microsoft FS 2004 flightsim. The challenge at Lukla is to land the An-225 there. Many have tried. Most attempts have ended up as nose-to-mountain affairs-- or worse...

Nobody is even going to take an AN-225 anywhere near Lukla as the only aircraft that can reliably get in and out of Tenzing-Hillary are Twin Otters and the little Dorner 229

I think you left one out. Some time ago, an expedition preparing for an assault on Everest, maybe Japanese?, staged out of Lukla after flying in all their suppiles with a Pilatus "Porter." I don't have the time to look it up right now but I can say this A/C holds several world records for STOL at altitude and I don't think anything flying can match it in certain aspects.
"Thanks to its STOL performance, the PC-6 holds the world record for highest landing by a fixed wing aircraft, at 5,750 metres (18,865 ft), on the Dhaulagiri glacier in Nepal."
Certainly would not want to be the one to try this myself no matter how capable the A/C might be!

quote:

Originally posted by TrapperP:

quote:

Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:

quote:

Originally posted by homebrewer:
That airport was one of ten featured on a History Channel show on July 21 entitled "World's Most Extreme Airports." The one under the Rock of Gibraltar is a bad one because of winds swirling around the Rock and clouds obliterating it most of the time. Kai-Tak was so bad they closed it in 1998. The one at Vail (might be Aspen), I think, is another bad one. The one at Princess Julianne has the jets coming over at baseball-cap level. The worst is Lukla in Nepal. I fool around a lot with the Microsoft FS 2004 flightsim. The challenge at Lukla is to land the An-225 there. Many have tried. Most attempts have ended up as nose-to-mountain affairs-- or worse...

Nobody is even going to take an AN-225 anywhere near Lukla as the only aircraft that can reliably get in and out of Tenzing-Hillary are Twin Otters and the little Dorner 229

I think you left one out. Some time ago, an expedition preparing for an assault on Everest, maybe Japanese?, staged out of Lukla after flying in all their suppiles with a Pilatus "Porter." I don't have the time to look it up right now but I can say this A/C holds several world records for STOL at altitude and I don't think anything flying can match it in certain aspects.
"Thanks to its STOL performance, the PC-6 holds the world record for highest landing by a fixed wing aircraft, at 5,750 metres (18,865 ft), on the Dhaulagiri glacier in Nepal."
Certainly would not want to be the one to try this myself no matter how capable the A/C might be!

A Pilatus Porter is an awesome plane. Here are a couple of clips from New Guinea.

quote:

Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:

Originally posted by homebrewer:

That airport was one of ten featured on a History Channel show on July 21 entitled "World's Most Extreme Airports." The one under the Rock of Gibraltar is a bad one because of winds swirling around the Rock and clouds obliterating it most of the time. Kai-Tak was so bad they closed it in 1998. The one at Vail (might be Aspen), I think, is another bad one. The one at Princess Julianne has the jets coming over at baseball-cap level. The worst is Lukla in Nepal. I fool around a lot with the Microsoft FS 2004 flightsim. The challenge at Lukla is to land the An-225 there. Many have tried. Most attempts have ended up as nose-to-mountain affairs-- or worse...

quote:

Nobody is even going to take an AN-225 anywhere near Lukla as the only aircraft that can reliably get in and out of Tenzing-Hillary are Twin Otters and the little Dorner 229

We do it for fun in the sim. I have never been successful, but some of the more capable simpilots have done it.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
Toncontin Int'l, Tegucigalpa Honduras.

Absolutely.

The place was even more interesting several years ago before they knocked down the hill at the approach end. My GPWS used to go off every time I went over that hill. The runway downslope creates an optical illusion and it's easy to overshoot.

I went in there one day with a farily new FO. It was his leg, but because of the variables at Toncontin, the Capt. always took the landing. I figgered, "Why not?"

He flew the circling approach very well, was completely ahead of the airplane and it was kinda funny, because he kept giving me the fish eye the closer we got, wondering when I was gonna grab the yoke. So about halfway through base leg, I just said, "Your airplane." He looked at me and his eyes got very big and then he turned back to the task at hand.

I told him not to fixate on the departure end, because the runway has about a 2% downslope, if memory serves, and doing that will cause you to float halfway down the strip.

I told him to pick his spot and put the main gear on it and he did a fine job.

In the weeks following, I heard a lot of scuttlebutt about what a cool guy I was for letting him take the landing.

That's not why I did it.

You can sit over there in that right seat for years, watching the Capt. make all the tough ones and all you are is an observer.
I felt that my job was to teach, and what better way than letting an experienced FO get his feet wet at Teguc?

quote:

Originally posted by jetdrvr:

You can sit over there in that right seat for years, watching the Capt. make all the tough ones and all you are is an observer. I felt that my job was to teach, and what better way than letting an experienced FO get his feet wet at Teguc?

Another reason why your life and times would make a great book...

quote:

Originally posted by homebrewer:

quote:

Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:

Originally posted by homebrewer:

That airport was one of ten featured on a History Channel show on July 21 entitled "World's Most Extreme Airports." The one under the Rock of Gibraltar is a bad one because of winds swirling around the Rock and clouds obliterating it most of the time. Kai-Tak was so bad they closed it in 1998. The one at Vail (might be Aspen), I think, is another bad one. The one at Princess Julianne has the jets coming over at baseball-cap level. The worst is Lukla in Nepal. I fool around a lot with the Microsoft FS 2004 flightsim. The challenge at Lukla is to land the An-225 there. Many have tried. Most attempts have ended up as nose-to-mountain affairs-- or worse...

quote:

Nobody is even going to take an AN-225 anywhere near Lukla as the only aircraft that can reliably get in and out of Tenzing-Hillary are Twin Otters and the little Dorner 229

We do it for fun in the sim. I have never been successful, but some of the more capable simpilots have done it.

Gee and I thought putting a (SIM)747 down and not running off the end of runway 33 at OAK was enough of a challenge.

Particularly after running the SIM in "real time" for a transcontinental flight from EWR so you are appropriatly tired (and needing to piss)while running the approach

Frankly if I were running SIMS at Lukla I'd run them landing a BE35... with full tanks to make things interesting don't run off the upper end of the runway on your rollout... The takeoff is easy you just have to rreally get the nose down as soon as you are clear of obstructions.

My long time favorite sim scenario is a P-38L takeoff run and killing either engine (at random) 3seconds after I rotate and about the time I hit the gear switch...

When you know what to do to keep from stuffing the canopy into the grass on either side of the runway you start making it harder... by adding more wight to the aircraft... jettisoning a pair of 1000lb bombs (or a full rack of 5"HVARs) to save the airplane in the SIM is "cheating".

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What kind of a SIM are you referring to?

a Friend of mine seemingly has every flight simulator program ever published and there are several of his I've played with,

Not to mention a collection of custom written add in aircraft for some of the programs.

I only have Microsoft flight simulator (several versions old)
I forget which version as it's not installed on my current computer. (Mostly because I can't find it...)

but playing that one game starting a takeoff roll with a P-38 at max gross and killing an engine just after rotation... you gotta be patient the first 10-15 times (or 45-50 times) you slam into the canopy into the grass...
Eventually you find the right combination of reduced power (to avoid fighting yaw) and getting the nose down and gear up and flying REAL LOW and not banging the props into the ground to allow you to gradually claw into the air...

P-factor on a P-38 is a cast iron bitch either way.
Just about any simulator programe written in the last 15years can display this effect.

BTW when I said "BE35" I was refering an INCORRECT reporting code (The proper ICAO code is "B350") for a Beechcraft Super King Air 350 NOT some old USAAF/USAF Bomber.
My friend has a "tweeked" version of the aircraft file to simulate a 350ER (heavier, more power and stronger landing gear and brakes from a Beech 1800 commuter airliner) in his flight simulator
Getting it down early on the runway and getting it stopped can be "interesting" in some simulations.

I remember playing microsoft flight simulator (when it was still a "Game" rather than something you can really call a "simulator") on an Apple-IIe... 'twas a long time ago...

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AD,

OK got it.

I was wonder what kind of a full motion sim had that kind of stuff programmed into it.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
AD,

OK got it.

I was wonder what kind of a full motion sim had that kind of stuff programmed into it.

Full moton SIM time is SO EXPEN$IVE that I can't rationally imagine anyone "playing games" on one...

quote:

Full moton SIM time is SO EXPEN$IVE that I can't rationally imagine anyone "playing games" on one...

We used to...a little...
On a proficiency trainer, I got to fly the 747 with the shuttle on my back. I was doing okay until the instructor pulled an engine out of SFO at a thousand feet. I was starting a right turn visually and the whale wouldn't climb. We had max allowable fuel plugged in. Started dumping like mad, but I ended up hammerin into the Bay Bridge. Just couldn't squeak over it. I don't envy those guys, but by now, they probably have upgraded engines from the JT-9D-F, I think it was. Been years.

Now that I think about it, I probably should have tried to go under the Golden Gate, but that would have resulted in a rather steep turn, so maybe not.

Back to the Toncontin video: Is that really legal? (Non-pilot here) The worst I ever saw was Kodiak, about 1963. It was OK until we turned at the end of the runway and I could see the escape grade, with lots of wheel tracks in it. Don't recall the craft, but it had four props and wasn't turbo.

quote:

Back to the Toncontin video: Is that really legal?

yep it has to be for an airline to operate out of it. As long as the airplane can make second segment climb on after losing an engine and the approach gradient is within limits you are good to go.

I can assure you that the slope at the end of the runway in Kodiak was NOT full of tire tracks from airplanes. It just doesn't work that way.

quote:

Originally posted by jetdrvr:

quote:

Full moton SIM time is SO EXPEN$IVE that I can't rationally imagine anyone "playing games" on one...

We used to...a little...
On a proficiency trainer, I got to fly the 747 with the shuttle on my back. I was doing okay until the instructor pulled an engine out of SFO at a thousand feet. I was starting a right turn visually and the whale wouldn't climb. We had max allowable fuel plugged in. Started dumping like mad, but I ended up hammerin into the Bay Bridge. Just couldn't squeak over it. I don't envy those guys, but by now, they probably have upgraded engines from the JT-9D-F, I think it was. Been years.

Now that I think about it, I probably should have tried to go under the Golden Gate, but that would have resulted in a rather steep turn, so maybe not.

I remember a poster that reminded people "At 90degrees of bank all the lift tends to slide off the wings"

Low, slow AND heavily loaded with a lead parachute your back....

There's a reason they only operate that pregnant whale off of The specific short list runways that they do...

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quote:

Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:

quote:

Originally posted by jetdrvr:

quote:

Full moton SIM time is SO EXPEN$IVE that I can't rationally imagine anyone "playing games" on one...

We used to...a little...
On a proficiency trainer, I got to fly the 747 with the shuttle on my back. I was doing okay until the instructor pulled an engine out of SFO at a thousand feet. I was starting a right turn visually and the whale wouldn't climb. We had max allowable fuel plugged in. Started dumping like mad, but I ended up hammerin into the Bay Bridge. Just couldn't squeak over it. I don't envy those guys, but by now, they probably have upgraded engines from the JT-9D-F, I think it was. Been years.

Now that I think about it, I probably should have tried to go under the Golden Gate, but that would have resulted in a rather steep turn, so maybe not.

I remember a poster that reminded people "At 90degrees of bank all the lift tends to slide off the wings"

Low, slow AND heavily loaded with a lead parachute your back....

There's a reason they only operate that pregnant whale off of The specific short list runways that they do...

AD

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Let me see if I can remember enough detail to make a meaningful post here. IIRC the JT9D-7R4 we flew on the B747-200 had 52K thrust and this was upgraded to 63K when the JT9D became the P&W 4000 - not sure how far up they have gone with it to date.
The space shuttle carrier A/C is a B747-100 and shows as having JT9D-7J PP and I believe this is an upgrade inculsive of some new improved comp and turbine blades, etc but not sure about the gain in thrust, if any. MTOW is listed as 710,000 LB so I can see why she doesn't fly like a Pitts with all that load and the mass of the shuttle on top. Also, the fully loaded range is listed as 1000NM with the shuttle mounted so it must burn fuel like crazy.
I apologize for rambling on - any idea how we got so far off subject here?

Speaking of odd sim sessions. We used to have two plugged in that stick in my mind. UAL used to have the training contract for the Air force one crews. We'd go into the 747 sim and play with it sometimes. One of the scenarios we had was an in air refueling mod. It was fun to pull up behind the KC-10 and try to get the whale into position. The secret was to get perfect position about 50 feet back matching airspeed then take one of the inboards and give it a slight goose and pull it back. It'd slide you right into the slot.

The other one we used to mess around with was on the 777. Some wise acre put a carrier landing mod into one of the sims. When we had a bit of free time we'd go out to "sea" and make some "traps". Of course in real life a 777 would be just a bit large for carrier ops.

We followed the NASA 747 with the shuttle on top out of SLC one day and they used ALL of the Rwy taking off to the south. They were headed to Edwards AFB I believe and we were going to Vegas. They only climbed to 12 or 14k and not very rapidly at that. We climbed above and were past them in short order. I was F/O on the L1011 at the time and it was quite a sight.



f/

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
Speaking of odd sim sessions. We used to have two plugged in that stick in my mind. UAL used to have the training contract for the Air force one crews. We'd go into the 747 sim and play with it sometimes. One of the scenarios we had was an in air refueling mod. It was fun to pull up behind the KC-10 and try to get the whale into position. The secret was to get perfect position about 50 feet back matching airspeed then take one of the inboards and give it a slight goose and pull it back. It'd slide you right into the slot.

The other one we used to mess around with was on the 777. Some wise acre put a carrier landing mod into one of the sims. When we had a bit of free time we'd go out to "sea" and make some "traps". Of course in real life a 777 would be just a bit large for carrier ops.

I did a lot of training at UAL in Denver. Took my captain upgrade course there. Great training facility in those days, anyway.