Tell me about the Air Tractor. My best friend goes to the gym with a guy named Leland Snow. Said he started and owns Air Tractor. He lives in Wichita Falls, Tx and said the factory is in Olney, Tx. Supposed to be a crop duster and maybe used in the middle east to carry armament at a low speed. Sounds interesting, but in Olney,Tx? Don't blink your eyes are you are through it and it ain't close to a metropolitan area.
Butch

I believe "Mississippian" who posts here owns one.

http://www.airtractor.com/

Leland builds a great airplane.

Carrys a heavy load.

Rumor has it there are a few being Armed for some non-agricultural work over the poppy fields .

Very interesting duggaboy. Thom said that Mr. Snow was a quiet unassuming guy. Said he had worked out with him a very long time before they talked much about their careers. I pass through Olney several times yearly going to our hunting property. All I know about Olney was they beat the hell out of us in football when I played in High School and my wife's uncle used to own a pool hall there.
Butch

I don't know much about 'em but they're used here in my part of Africa as fire fighting aircraft. We often see 'em flying low over the house in the bush fire season.

Steve, have you run across Ian Redelinghuis or [Swannie] Johan Swanepoel in SA? Swannie is an engineer and is on the SA World Championship BR team. The World Championships are being held in SA in the next couple weeks. The matches are in the Pretoria area.
Butch

Butch,

'Fraid not but Aubrey Kent who posts as Aubs458 might know him.

Tell me more about the championships? - I live about a 5 hour drive from Pretoria and we don't get much news of what's going on!!

Steve,
Try this link. http://wbc10.co.za/modules/news2/ The matches start Tuesday of this week. The website will probably tell you where from Pretoria it is located. I think you would enjoy seeing some encredibley small 5 shot groups.
Butch

Thanks Butch,

Looks like I might have to go down that way this coming week and if I do, I'll drop in for a looksee........ thanks for the tip!

I think one of the MAJOR mistakes the US Military has made, is to quit using Prop aircraft. Especially for COIN work.

Remember, there were some US Military fighters that were designed with NO GUN.

IDIOTS.

Every infantry Battalion needs 2 or 3 of these!



Mr. Leland Snow himself with his Prototype AT802U. He is not a very big man (5'6" maybe) but he looks fit! Butch, your buddy must be a good workout partner! I had lunch with him at the factory in 99 and he hasnt changed a bit in appearence.

My Buddy is 65yrs old and is a bicycle racer and goes to the gym 3 days a week. He also meets with our old high school buds and powerlifts once a week. He used to do the senior olympics until he tore up his shoulder.
Butch

They are used all over the US as cropdusters and sometimes for small wildland fire suppression. Anytime you see a yellow (and sometimes other colors) low wing spraying crops, it's probably an air tractor

Mississippian,

Thanx for the pics.

I had kicked around some ideas with one of the guys involved in the project about a year ago, or more.

Did not know they had gone fully public with the armed pics.

Thought the " development" was still in the planning stages.

Had not heard anything in a while on the project.

I wonder what the recoil from those high rate 20 mm cannon would do for the flight characteristics of such a light aircraft.

My Brother said the Ft. Worth paper had a big deal on him last week. Those are pretty neat photos. I think that is the version that a lot of folks liked at the Paris air show.
Butch

He was on the front page of the Ft Worth Star Telegram yesterday.

The advantage of a prop aircraft over a "jet"
is one of cost, hours of post flight work, and loiter time.

If that's a Mk82 on the centerline, I hope before anyone tries to drop one from a Tractor, it wears some Snake Eye fins. I don't think the plane is going to get out of the frag pattern if the bomb is delivered below 2000' AGL... and that's where the accuracy would be best.

I think the biggest advantage of the plane is cost... and I wonder how much more if it has an ejection seat and cockpit armor? Still 1/7th of an attack helicopter?

At 170kts or so, a pilot should be able to shoot mighty close to troops in contact or drop a can of napalm in the back of a pickup truck.

Perfect aircraft for Army and Marine direct support. Under control of the ground command structure and available with many things other that 20mm's.

I want something that can carry a whole bunch of light machine ammo, abuch of 2.75s and maybe some small bombs. Sometinmes contact is harder to break than make and some operations are not about slogging it out with half the worlds armament right there with you.


A-10s, Hey, probably nothing out there better to do the job they were designed to do, that is why they are still in the inventory even thought they were supposed to go away way back at Desert Storm.

Think of the loiter time one could enjoy with this guy. He could hang with ya and be there when the other guys have to go someplace to get fuel.

What is total time on a tank of fuel and total weight available to hang on various wing mounts.

20 or 30 MM guns ought to test the strength.

Lets see ... who would you rather have backing you up ... A-10 or a crop duster ...

I ASSURE you the pilot would rather be flying something armored capable of 400 kts.

quote:

Lets see ... who would you rather have backing you up ... A-10 or a crop duster ...

I ASSURE you the pilot would rather be flying something armored capable of 400 kts.

I dont think the 802 is meant to replace the A10. Two similar yet different roles. Imagine your an infantry soldier for a poor country with a very low defense budget. You are conducting operations against an enemy equiped with small arms only. Would you rather have 10 cropdusters or 1 A10?

quote:

Originally posted by Mississippian:

I dont think the 802 is meant to replace the A10. Two similar yet different roles. Imagine your an infantry soldier for a poor country with a very low defense budget. You are conducting operations against an enemy equiped with small arms only. Would you rather have 10 cropdusters or 1 A10?

Yup



More than 10 to 1.

Forward operations off of ROUGH fields/roads/bare ground.

Can sit on the ground nearby to be called quickly to the fight, rest,refit and back----

Local Control--less coordination time with other ops and upper echelon

KNOWN pilot involved with the unit, knows operation at hand.

Less complex to repair.
(BTW, there is armor, as well as self-sealing fuel tanks)

Easier to transition to local use/ ownership. Low technology transfer risk.

Common powerplant available worldwide.


Hmmm, gimme a boat load of 'em in Afga

Perhaps it should be known as the "Piglet"?

Puts a whole new meaning to the term:
"Integrated Pest Control"

quote:

I ASSURE you the pilot would rather be flying something armored capable of 400 kts.

I agree 100%!! I would donate multiple body organs to fly an A10,One of my favorite aircraft!

Several more pictures can be seen at the following link. In the left margin click on "breaking News" and it should be at the top of the page.
http://www.agairupdate.com/

Hey napalm can be sprayed can't it ...

Lay down an unignited blanket-o-spray for igniting later.

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
Hey napalm can be sprayed can't it ...

Lay down an unignited blanket-o-spray for igniting later.

I think I'll let you take the first run-- and AT Least have the Spray bar nozzle behind the A/C and not under the wings

I went thru the plant 10/12 years ago very impressive they had a roll cage type cockpit that was good for 8/10 g's most of the leading edges of the struts/cockpit had serated plates on them to cut wires /fences when spraying they were just really getting into the turbos then most were big round motors you could tell it was purpose built by people that knew what was needed

Macifej
Whats my mission, what armament on the A10.
A10 under brigade control, he has the right guns an I'm on the ground?
A-10 hands down. it is/was built from the ground up to survive close in fire support projects as I remember the original missions

I watched the other video of the cropduster get together the biplanes there were those the old grumman AG CAT's??

quote:

Whats my mission, what armament on the A10.

Your target is rotor-craft ... your load is 10,000 lbs of used Pachinko Balls ... and 4 AIM-9's if you miss ...

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
If that's a Mk82 on the centerline, I hope before anyone tries to drop one from a Tractor, it wears some Snake Eye fins. I don't think the plane is going to get out of the frag pattern if the bomb is delivered below 2000' AGL... and that's where the accuracy would be best.

That and I think you'll have a hard time finding anyone willing to release it unless it has a fairly long delay on the fuze... even with a retarding package on it...

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:

quote:

Whats my mission, what armament on the A10.

Your target is rotor-craft ... your load is 10,000 lbs of used Pachinko Balls ... and 4 AIM-9's if you miss ...

I think a mix of pachinko balls and air rifle shot would disperse more evenly and do just as much mischief inside a turbine engine.

then again it's already ben proven that an IR guided Maverick (AGM65) or the GAU8 is HIGHTLY effective against a helicopter... if you don't happen to have an AIM9

ANYTHING built by Leland Snow is a Damn Fine Aircraft.

Looks like brother Saeed's country is fielding a fleet of these! (The air tractor version)

http://www.aopa.org/News-and-V...sters-go-to-war.aspx

I think for military use the AD was very good at carrying a heavy payload, guns and loiter. However it was much more expensive than an airtractor.

I would not be surprised if there was a drone airtractor used in the future. They would much cheaper without a pilot.

Surprising to see so much knowledge about Air Tractor. Several folks I know work there and the plant is about 3 miles or so from my home.

Air tractor is a major part of Olney and its history over the past 30 years or so. Haven't heard anything about drones, but it would not surprise me.

Unfortunately Leland passed away two years ago.

My Bud just emailed me and said there is a new animated Airplane movie and that the aircraft is an Air Tractor.

Butch

I remember when Leland Snow came to Olney in about 1960. All he owned was an Ariel Square Four, a leather jacket on his back and a diploma from college. He used to eat lunch at the NoDelay Restaraunt and I would drool all over that motorcycle parked outside.

The Federal Gov built an airport and elaborate runway near Olney during WWII then abandoned it. Snow promoted his idea and blueprints for a new design in agriculture spray planes to the city of Olney, they furnished the airport and buildings and Snow in returned created a lot of jobs for the area. Snow Areonautical I think. He was very successful and then sold the company to some plane manufactorer up north.

A few years passed and Snow came out of retirement and formed Snow Air Tractor, a new design. He first built them at the old National Guard Armory. Then returned to the Olney Airport again and was even more sucessful where they are still located today.

My Dad was an electrician in Olney and did a lot of electrical work for Snow in the early days. One day I was helping my Dad and we could not locate Snow. When we finally tracked him down he was chasing jack rabbits on the runway with his Ariel Square Four. Boy that was a long time ago.