My question is for those that have hunted with suppressed rifles. What calibers are you using, are you using subsonic or supersonic loads, how do the animals react and how are the terminal results. It is legal to hunt with suppressors here in Virginia but I would like to get some real world experience to help pick a caliber as my only suppressor right now is .223. I am thinking about .300 Whisper, .308, and .458 SOCOM right now.
Thanks!

The four most common deer legal calibre's that are used suppressed in the UK are the .243win, 6.5x55, 270win and .308win. My guess is that these four rounds account for 90% plus of the deer taken in the UK.

Suppressed rifles are generally used here with full power loads in these calibres as we have muzzle velocity and energy regulations to meet. Terminal effect is the same as a standard rifle. If you take a deer from a group with a suppressor on, the deer sometimes mill around for a few seconds as the suppressor makes it hard to identify where the shot is coming from.

My limited experience is with a suppressed 270win. The perceived recoil was reduced to something less than 243 and the report was little louder than a .22mag.

A suppressed .222rem will have zero recoil and only a crack of the bullet going supersonic.

That said, I don't own one. Don't like the effect they have to the balance of a rifle.

Claret_Dabbler,
Thanks, I figured the best benefit is the hearing protection you receive. I could see an advantage if you are culling but I'm not in that situation.

Hi Sharps54

I use a suppressed .308. As recoil is reduced accuracy increases, recoil reduces and there is much less noise. For load development its great.
I prefer at the moment not to hunt with a moderator as it unbalances the rifle and makes the rifle too long.It also means removal of the iron sights which can cause problems if your hunting away from home and the scope gets damaged.
For night shooting from a high seat its great and muzzle flash is reduced.

Regards

Mark

It doesn´t have to be so long, i shortened my barrel and mounted an BR-Reflex T8 on my 222Rem.
I´ve just got it back so i haven´t had the opportunity to shoot it yet.

I have had an on off relationship with hunting with a moderated (that's the word we use in the UK) rifle.

The new over the barrel moderators work extremely well and reduce the overall length but to be pleasant to handle the rifle really needs to be set up as a dedicated moderator rifle and some thought put into it's construction.

There are some conflicting factors to consider - effectiveness of the noise moderation is substantialy affected by barrel length (the shorter the barrel the more work the moderator has to do) yet the longer the barrel the more unbalancing the effect of the moderator weight is...

This practically means that short bolt action or single shots (no action length) are the best.
Charge weights also substantialy affect noise.

My own solution is a rem 700 SA in 243 with a 19" barrel and a PES custom moderator (no internal sleeve)The more accurate the threading job the closer the baffle tolerance can be (note some moderators are sold with single 30cal baffle diameter which is very inefficient for a 243 etc) I use powders which mean that I do not exceed 40gr of powder. One load I have uses 46gr of powder and is considerably louder. The fact that the mod is smaller than a reflex means that despite it's great efficiency it is more easily overwhelmed.

A good way to get around this is to use lighter tougher bullets at the same velocity as the next weight up (reducing powder charge and pressure and hence noise) thusly in 7mm08 one could use a 120gr TSX at conventianal 140gr speed or in 308 a 130gr TSX at conventional 150gr speed.

Deer don't react any differently as far as I can tell but it is a lot easier on your ears.

I have one on my 6.5 and as Brian said, they do unbalance the rifle. However the reduced recoil has to be felt, or not, to be believed. There is next to none muzzle flip and you can see the shot land. The deer are confused as to where the shot came from and the usual instant flight of your victims pals turns into a confused milling about enabling a much easier shot at a second beast. I once saw a Sika stag missed completely, with a 270 WSM fitted with a moderator, it just lifted it's head from grazing, looked around and put it's head down again to continue grazing. It did not hear the second shot!

I now use a gunslinger carrying system, courtesy of our own PeteE, which makes carrying the gun easy and negates the extra weight/awkward to carry problem. I am impressed with mine, so much so that a little later today I am off to collect my .243 and .222 both having been threaded to take a moderator. I am one of those that like and use them, but I can fully understand why folks do not like them.

John

Moderators are great devices, as I have stated here earlier. However, they do increase the weight in the barrel end, but when shooting offhand, I actually consider this to be more of help rather than drawback.

Some guys who have moderated .45-70 rifles, have told me that they are not as easy to make really silent as smaller bores. This is due to the bigger hole for the exiting bullet and also gases to get outside the moderator without the moderator slowing them down. Haven't heard those big bores with moderators in action, but my .338 Win seemed really to be quite a bit more loud than a similar rifle in .308.

I have to say that I loved shooting ny mates Tikka 270 (previously my Tikka 270) which he had fitted with a T8. I justed hated to carry the damn thing. From the car to the bench was about as far as I would carry it.

When we were stalking on the open hill, he screwed the mod off and carried it in his bag. The rifle shot to within an inch either way. If we spotted a beast and began to stalk in, he fitted the Mod.

If I was a deer manager with a big cull to make, then I would definitely have a moderated rifle, probably a 308. I would still want to have a "pleasure" rifle without one.

This is how they hunt whitetailed deer in Finnland:

There would be no question I would have a moderated .308, with a 1,5x6 Illuminated Zeiss or S&B. I have used them in the field, and the very lastest moderators can be had very sleek with good decibel reduction.

Aleko

When will someone make a suppressor that doesn`t ruin the handling/looks of a rifle?
I`m not a lover of them for those reasons.
As for giving away your position because of the noise of the shot,I`m not convinced it`s an issue,But the noise of those moderators when they touch something is a dead give away !! IMO movement and "different" noises (i.e. metallic ding when those poxy grt lumps of tin on the end of the barrel touch a branch !! are the biggest give aways.
Was out culling Fallow with an ex associate a few yrs ago, he had a moderated 308 and I had my un moderated 30-06, he shot 1, the deer saw some movement and they were offski!
I was led in a ditch, I dropped 5 before they decided they had enough and "moved on",I am sure they didnt run @ the first shot because they couldn`t see where the shots were coming from, they milled about abit and I was able to keep helping myself.
Is the same principle with clothing etc,wear what your dry,warm and comfortable in and move slowly.

I have a PES moderator which is great for long distrance fixed point hunting such as a hilltop or high seat.
Never had a problem with multiple shots on deer without a moderator. In fact if you want to hold the herd as they run away I shout at them to stop and mostly they oblige.
For hunting the only major benefit is sound reduction to the hunter ears or neighbours IMHO.
Anyway my rifle looks so nice without a moderator I thing the deer stop to admire it.

Mark

Mark,

When you get home do you remove the moderator from the rifle for storage. A friend "claims" that if you don't it will cause condensation in the bore, a mild rust if you will. I have never seen it personally, but the guy is pretty sharp with guns

Aleko

For me its a must to remove the moderator when not in use, any moisture trapped will cause rusting (problem with the moderator not the rifle in my experience - squirt WD40 into mod. and let it drip out (store upright).

Should check that removing and replacing moderator doesn't effect POI (a friend had a rifle that always shot the first shot out of the group after he removed and replaced mod.) With my rifle this has never been an issue.

I hate stalking with a moderator, but love firing it (hearing and hearing impact noise) Use mine primarily on park culls (no complaints from public since using it and also for foxing - again little disturbance to public)

I use a Reflex, but probably would look at an ASE if had to rekick myself now.

Finally for those that use a scope mounted lamp, to stop glare off the moderator use a butler cap on objective lens, this casts a shadow and eliminates the glare.....

Happy Christmas one and all

I have fitted a PES to my 243 Howa and cannot sing it's praises enough. I'm a confirmed fan of at least one of your rifles being moderated.

Hi Aleko

I always remove the moderator after when I return home or else one can get corrosion on the barrel. In fact with the PES I take it apart and wipe any excess moisture/carbon off it and then give it a healthy spray of WD40. The POI is never changed. I also have a threaded cover to protect the thread when not hunting with the moderator. To make the rifle easier to hunt with I shot two groups of 5 shots one with the moderator on and on with it off. On the scope I the have the adjustments marked to allow me to hunt confidently with either option, 10 clicks up, 4 to the left when I put the mod on.

Mark

Wow,
Thanks for all the replies. It sounds like a .308 makes the most sense. I was looking for something to play with at the range that I could also hunt with. Subsonic ammo would be more fun (quieter) at the range but it would also have to be good with supersonic if I was going to hunt with it. Of course that is supposed to be the advantage of the .300 Whisper but I also am considering 7.62x39 with equivalent loads, that way I have cheap factory ammo, can reload subsonic ammo for the range, and hunting ammo for deer hunting around here.

Mark, like you that is how I keep my adjustments. I really like how you can disassemble the moderator and clean it, alot of the moderators in the states are sealed, I prefer the idea of taking them apart to clean. Now I am just waiting for a treaded barrel from the Blaser factory for the R93!!

Aleko

i shoot a 7x64 and a 300 win mag both with reflex suppressors,recoil reduction is fantastic ,noise reduction is great especially for night shooting ,al my rifles will have moderators fitted inthe future i have been more than pleased with there effectiveness from 22.250 upwards
regards scirroco

I have some sako 185 grain subsonic given me, pulled the bullets and replaced with 180 grain winchester s.p. 20 clicks up and they're accurate at 100m. set to go sitting in a tree with a T8 and a full magazine at first light. Sounds like a 22 moderated sub sonic but has some whumph.

I saw a Remmy .243 fitted with a full length moderator the other weekend...This was a stainless steel unit that ran right back to the breech over the barrel. The barrel was around 18" and the moderator added perhaps 3"...the design of the moderator was such that that it had no inner tube so the outside of the barrel acts as the inner wall..It was fitted into an after market stock with a wider than normal forearm and the whole things looked like a bull barrel as the moderator was much slimmer than say T8..The barrel had been painted to protect it and the outside of the moderator was a matt black...The rifle moderated rifle balanced & handled much better than is usual for a moderated rifle and if I ever went for a moderator this the design I would go for..

Pete, Steve Bowers has been doing this modification for sometime, excellant idea. If you order one prepare to wait........!

Here's one full-length model too: www.masina-tuote.com

quote:

Originally posted by nightwalker uk:
Pete, Steve Bowers has been doing this modification for sometime, excellant idea. If you order one prepare to wait........!

Nightwalker,

Now you mention the name, I am fairly certain thats who did the moderator on this rifle...I think the moderator itself came from New Zealand? Puntgunner may know better as he was there and is not so senile as me!

Regards,

Pete

www.specialistrifleservices.co.uk


this is steve's site, like NW said be prepared for a long wait on any serious rifle work, moderator stuff he should have a reasonable turnaround

quote:

When will someone make a suppressor that doesn`t ruin the handling/looks of a rifle?

Nightwalker & Alex beat me to it

http://www.specialistrifleservices.co.uk/moderators.html

Its the ruger 77 hes talking about. Ive shot it and it works very well. As with anything Steve produces, nice and accurate as well.

quote:

Now I am just waiting for a treaded barrel from the Blaser factory for the R93!!

Aleko

You can't do that to a Blaser! Thats' monumental sacrilage

Seriously you could do it to something less worthy like a Heym

I have started my paperwork for a moderator in the states. I went with the AWC "Thundertrap", and yes I cut off my .300 Win Blaser barrel to 22" and treaded it in anticipation for the event. I have a factory treaded .308 barrel on order.

Aleko

You can build a moderated rifle that balances, handles and isn't bulky.



This weighs 9lb, balances just in front of the front action screw and is no longer than a standard long action rifle. I do not dread taking out of the cabinet - in fact I like it so much I am severely tempted to build a 7mm08 twin.

The fully moded weapon has been built on a model 7 Remington, in .243.

This is usually classed as a ladies/youths gun, due to the shortness of the overall rifle and the weight reduction from, say, a model 700.

The moderator is one from PES, supplied by Julian Savoury ( not 100% sure that's how you spell his name), from Sussex.

The barrel is very short, and has the profile of an HB pencil.

To enable the moderator to be fitted to the rifle , a boss had to be braised onto the end of the barrel to supply enough meat for the thread to be cut.

The whole lot was then dropped into a McMillan beaver tailed sporting stock, but not before the forend had to have some serious milling done on it to open up the channel for the mode; when fitted.

The point-ability of this rifle and the way that it handled is very good. I for one have had Vaimco's and later T8's fitted as cans to my weapons. All add length and deture from the handling qualities of the finished job.

This particular rifle has passed through the hands of Riflecraft (Andrew-Hendricks) , Julian and Mr Bowers before it became a finished article.

I would seriously consider becoming the owner of one if I had the inclination.

Today I tried it out.
From beeing a disaster in precision it became very accurate, especially with Rhino´s factoryload. (222 Rem)
Silencers can do wonders.

Silencers are really popular here in Finland. More and more people are installing ones to their rifles. We have countless manufacturers of silencers and some people with proper equipment even make their own.

Better known Finnish makers include:
Ase Utra (AU silencers, they have new ones made of stainless steel)
http://www.aseutra.fi/english/index.html
BR-tuote (made by AU but different design philosophy)
http://guns.connect.fi/rs/
Masina tuote (full length silencers)
www.masina-tuote.com

They are great aid in helping to protect your hearing. Even with full load ammo they do cut the muzzle blast out. Nothing can be done with supersonic boom but even this way the sound directed to the shooter (or your dog) is much less than without a silencer.

And like many said the silencers act as muzzle brake too.

I have one in my .308 and it works great. Plan to get one for my .338 Lapua Magnum.

Looks like I've got to put my moderator back on my 308 .
I love it down the range but hate stalking with it. However next door farm have just put a new bridlepath behind mt highseats and the length of the wood. I dont want to be responsible for spooking any horses or at least minimize the risk as the days lengthen.

Mark