quote:

Originally posted by Jools:

quote:

Originally posted by Trapper Dave:
Having hunted and shot both deer and boar with shotgun and 6mm ball in Lithuania and also been regularly involved in culling deer in difficult urban and peri urban situations in the UK, I don't buy the argument for using them here for that purpose at all.
I think better, more certain results are to be had from a moderated rifle.

The main problem you have by choosing to use a rifle moderated or not is the lack of or unsuitable back stops. Plus the much increased chance that some dozy, trespassing urbanite will be stood behind it just waiting to stick their head up.Such potentially lethal problems are much reduced by the use of a shotgun. Especially as the location becomes more urban. I don't think either are ideal for a truely urban environment.
I'm not saying they are they answer to every peri-urban deer problem but I do believe they fit the bill far better than c/f rifles for a good proportion of the situations. Gas operated s/a's allow for rapid shooting that doesn't require your targets to be staionary.Which is often of significant benefit.

If you're worried about annoying the neighbours how about using a hushpower moderated shotgun.

I'm afraid your theorising on this is a world away from the realities of the situations that arise.
Ghuberts description of the problems and risks more closely matches my own experiences in this respect.
The chances btw of a dozy trespassing urbanite getting anywhere near a deer are slim but as with backstops, not problematic for the hunter willing to put up a tower.
My main concern is your apparent indifference to the fact that you might wound rather than kill cleanly by using slug or ball.
Just because and animal is a pest or puts itself in a pest situation doesn't mean that it deserves to suffer.
With a little thought, care and restraint, problem animals can be targetted and eliminated humanely, without undue suffering and in such a way that the Police and Public can have confidence in those carrying out the task

quote:

Originally posted by Trapper Dave:

quote:

Originally posted by Jools:

The main problem you have by choosing to use a rifle moderated or not is the lack of or unsuitable back stops. Plus the much increased chance that some dozy, trespassing urbanite will be stood behind it just waiting to stick their head up.Such potentially lethal problems are much reduced by the use of a shotgun. Especially as the location becomes more urban. I don't think either are ideal for a truely urban environment.
I'm not saying they are they answer to every peri-urban deer problem but I do believe they fit the bill far better than c/f rifles for a good proportion of the situations. Gas operated s/a's allow for rapid shooting that doesn't require your targets to be staionary.Which is often of significant benefit.

If you're worried about annoying the neighbours how about using a hushpower moderated shotgun.

I'm afraid your theorising on this is a world away from the realities of the situations that arise.
Ghuberts description of the problems and risks more closely matches my own experiences in this respect.
The chances btw of a dozy trespassing urbanite getting anywhere near a deer are slim but as with backstops, not problematic for the hunter willing to put up a tower.
My main concern is your apparent indifference to the fact that you might wound rather than kill cleanly by using slug or ball.
Just because and animal is a pest or puts itself in a pest situation doesn't mean that it deserves to suffer.
With a little thought, care and restraint, problem animals can be targetted and eliminated humanely, without undue suffering and in such a way that the Police and Public can have confidence in those carrying out the task

The realities that arise are many and varied.I have been involved in peri-urban deer control for years. Whilst the use of a shotgun is not the ideal solution for every situation it is for many. You would be shocked at the places dog walkers, joggers, mountain bikers, courting couples, etc manage to get themselves into in peri-urban environments. If you erected a tower/highseat in some of these places they wouldn't be there the next time you went.
You can wound with a c/f rifle and you can kill humanely with a well placed shot from a shotgun using 6mm shot at 25m. A boiler room shot with a 75ga .243 at 90m could well have your choosen target dashing off the patch or into the traffic. Or don't your deer run when shot? Unless of course you are advocating only taking head and neck shots. The police are not concerned with any aspect other than compliance with the law. The public think that we are all blood thirsty heathens already. The only people that need to have confidence are the land owner and his appointed agents.

The continental and US based hunters succesfully harvest considerable numbers of deer every year using shotguns, and have been doing so for the last 100+ years.In some instances it is their weapon of choice, in some it is the need to comply with the law that makes that choice for them. Are they all wrong?

In right hands every shotgun/rifle/handgun/bow and arrow can be useful tool to put the animal down.
It is all about our discipline, experience and knowledge about the limits of tools or ours own.

The most dogs and beaters in driven hunts were wounded by ricochet of the pellets, much less from slugs. Slugs after going in to the body or a tree stop shortly unlike some rifle bullets, bonded, copper or partitions. Some sabot slugs can also fly for longer after passing through the obstacle.

If you use cartridge with the pellets the distance is crucial and I wouldn't go beyond 25m for two reasons. I want for all my pellets or at least majority to end up in animal killing it quicker. The second reason is that all the pellets which miss your quarry will go around like bees, bouncing from the obstacles without control.
In terminal performance usually is better to use smaller pellets than buckshot because it is better 10 pellets or more under the skin than one big pellet in the lungs. Also big pellets spread easily and bounce much more carrying more energy with them if they miss.
For muntjac and roe up to 20m pellets in diameter of 4,00 or 4.5mm would do well even though this wouldn't be the best option always. That's why I used combo gun. In one barrel something like 243 with fragile bullet and in the smooth barrel shotgun cartridge. It was the best option for control in per urban area or on the hunting ground.

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Originally posted by Artemis1:
In right hands every shotgun/rifle/handgun/bow and arrow can be useful tool to put the animal down.
It is all about our discipline, experience and knowledge about the limits of tools or ours own.

Thank you for you input. Based upon your very practical experience.

Unfortunately our rediculous laws require that we use 6mm or > sized shot. As clearer indication of what happens when you let those with little or no experience advise the law makers if ever there was one.
As we have seen. Here in the UK the use of shotguns to assit in the controlling of deer is an rather emotive subject. Largely due to the simple fact that very few have any practical experience. IMO In the right hands they are ideal for getting the job done.

Hunting deer with a shotgun http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...mNn0&feature=related

quote:

Originally posted by Trapper Dave:
Having hunted and shot both deer and boar with shotgun and 6mm ball in Lithuania and also been regularly involved in culling deer in difficult urban and peri urban situations in the UK, I don't buy the argument for using them here for that purpose at all.
I think better, more certain results are to be had from a moderated rifle.

+1

Under the communist regime of the former Estaern Germany, regular citicens were not allowed hunting weapons with rifled barrels. They were reserved exclusively for the politically reliable members of the regime.

Thus, for the vast majority of the E. German hunters the standard weapon was the Suhl 16 gauge side by side shotgung with a Zeiss/Jena scope in a claw mount.

The maximumn range for teh slugs they used was around 50 meters. Not far for our criteria but these people understood a lot about the game and how to approach it silently and against the wind.

I have killed quite a few deer and hogs with 12 ga 00 buck shot, and inside 35-40 yards, it is extremely effective. I have shot a few slugs but never killed anything with them, and for where I live, there really isn't much point when you can just use a rifle instead.

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Originally posted by DJM:+1

Dave
I would have laid a large sum of money on that being a rather obvious vote. But I doubt if anyone would have given me decent odds. .

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Originally posted by DUK:
Under the communist regime of the former Estaern Germany, regular citicens were not allowed hunting weapons with rifled barrels. They were reserved exclusively for the politically reliable members of the regime.

Thus, for the vast majority of the E. German hunters the standard weapon was the Suhl 16 gauge side by side shotgung with a Zeiss/Jena scope in a claw mount.

The maximumn range for teh slugs they used was around 50 meters. Not far for our criteria but these people understood a lot about the game and how to approach it silently and against the wind.

Sure looks a ideal tool for the job. Thanks for sharing.

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Originally posted by Jeff Sullivan:
I have killed quite a few deer and hogs with 12 ga 00 buck shot, and inside 35-40 yards, it is extremely effective.

I and a great many others couldn't agree with you more if we tried.

I suspect that many of those who don't have never given this combination a fair and decent trial.