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The 125th anniversary of one of the most celebrated moments in Welsh military history is being marked on a distant battlefield. Just 145 soldiers from the South Wales Borderers (24th Foot) held off an army of thousands of Zulu warriors at the Battle of Rorke's Drift during South Africa's Anglo-Zulu War in 1879. The losses of the British garrison were reported as 17 dead and 10 wounded, with the Zulus losing 450 men before retreating. Ex-soldiers in the Borderers, which has since merged with other regiments to form the modern-day Royal Regiment of Wales, have flown to Africa to join Welsh First Minister Rhodri Morgan, Zulu chief Mangosuthu Buthelezi and British High Commissioner in South Africa, Ann Grant, in remembrance of their heroic predecessors on Friday. Last Updated: Friday, 23 January, 2004, 06:52 GMT E-mail this to a friend Printable version Rorke's Drift heroes remembered Rorke's Drift was defended by 145 men against thousands of Zulus The 125th anniversary of one of the most celebrated moments in Welsh military history is being marked on a distant battlefield. Just 145 soldiers from the South Wales Borderers (24th Foot) held off an army of thousands of Zulu warriors at the Battle of Rorke's Drift during South Africa's Anglo-Zulu War in 1879. The losses of the British garrison were reported as 17 dead and 10 wounded, with the Zulus losing 450 men before retreating. Ex-soldiers in the Borderers, which has since merged with other regiments to form the modern-day Royal Regiment of Wales, have flown to Africa to join Welsh First Minister Rhodri Morgan, Zulu chief Mangosuthu Buthelezi and British High Commissioner in South Africa, Ann Grant, in remembrance of their heroic predecessors on Friday. helped fire the imagination A record eleven Victoria Cross medals were awarded following the battle, which was later given cinematic treatment in the 1964 classic film Zulu, starring Michael Caine, Stanley Baker and Ivor Emmanuel. For the full details to the story on the BBC web site at: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/3419343.stm Very brave men indeed and proof that mutal respect can grow out of things li ke this... | ||
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Pete, you are a regular history buff!  Good on you! History is important, it should teach us not to make the same stupid mistakes over and over again... Fat chance!  Btw, when reminding us all of the heroic stance at Rorke's Drift - basking in the glory of 11 VCs so to speak - we should probably not forget that the Zulu Impi came pouring off the battle of Isandhlwana, where they had just creamed a much larger British detachment. Rorke's drift was really a rear-guard action - of sorts. Saved the day for the Brits, at least as far as "battle honours" is concerned. As sad as it is, South African history is a bloody and violent one. If we feel like remembering the heroics at Rorke's Drift, perhaps we should not forget the countless encounters where the Boers withstood the onslaught of the Zulu military might. Outnumbered hundreds to one, and with nothing between themselves and the Zulu multitudes but a feeble ring of ox-wagons and the determination of the men and women inside the "Wagenburg". Bloodriver is but one example of the many epics, that played out during the long trek of the Boers while trying to establish a state of their own (unfortunately for the Zulus and other natives of what is now South Africa). Later, the Brits - largely driven by zealous imperialists like Cecil Rhodes - put a stop to that dream of freedom. Endless suffering and lifelong enmity was the result of that venture. Just goes to show what history teaches us... Here is a neat website about Rorke's Drift: Rorke's Drift VCs Btw, there is a lot of interesting firearms history in all of the above as well. From the front-loaders of the Boers(each boer had 3-4 rifles and while firing from within the Wagenburg, his wife, daughter or sister loaded the others again); the Martinis of the Brits at Rorke's drift; and finally the (in)famous 7x57 Mausers of the Boer Commandos in the war against the Brits. - mike | |||
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The film "Zulu" ranks very near the top of my all time favorite military movies. I tip my hat in respect to the heros of Rorke's Drift. Their steadfast resolve in the face of overwhelming odds should never be forgotten. | |||
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The Battle of Ishandlewana was one of the worst events in British history; far from "getting creamed" the British soldiers fought with unparalleled courage against a much larger force of superb warriors for hours until they were essentially annihilated---they did not beg and they did not run. The Zulus were so impressed by the outstanding display of honour and courage by the English soldiers that they carefully slit open the bellies of the dead men to allow their souls to escape to the afterlife. The problem was that the O.C. commanding the British, Frederick, Earl Chelmsford was a poor general and an egotistical ass. He would not take advice from the local Natal militia units as to tactics against Zulus and his troops paid the price for it; it was almost an earlier rendition of July 1st, 1916 or the unspeakable surrender at Singapore-which was not the fault of the English soldiers or we "colonials" who fought with them. We, after all, WON WW1 and WW2, fighting the Germans while some other nations did not concern themselves with the spread of fascism. | |||
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The full story about the defense at Rorke's Drift: Full Story, from above website - mike | |||
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One of the ironys of the whole Zulu War was that Cetshwayo considered himself a loyal subject and friend/equal of Queen Victoria. He wasn't even notified that the Brits had demanded a series of unthinkable concessions from him and he had complied with most(as a loyal friend trying to so the right thing). He didnt' know the British army was moving against him . He took things in hand pretty quickly though. Chelmsford was a real prig. Classic Imperial officer. Almost like Ol' Monty of WWII. "Isandlwana" By Adrian Greaves is a very good history of the battle. | |||
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Mike, No basking in the glory here, just remembering some very brave men who served, faught and in many cases died for their Queen and Country, often very far from home. With regards the Zulu's Impi, I have shared a beer with several of their latter day counterparts who were honoured guests in our Mess... Ich Dien! Peter | |||
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I wouldn't put Field Marshall Montgomery in quite the same category as Lord Chelmsford. I have known many Canadian, Scots and English combat veterans, both officers and other ranks who served under him in WW2 and they generally had a very high opinion of the old boy. I would not put him in quite the first rank of the greatest generals such as Wellington, Kutuzov or Rommel, but, the Americans had no one in the European theatre who was his over-all equal. Although Patton was very talented at offensive thrusts, he was so bloody egomaniacal that he could not cooperate with anyone-especially Monty. The popular myth of the incompetent Imperial British officer is just that, a myth. Most of these men were highly competent and courageous to a degree that senior officers in other armys could not begin to emulate. Horace Smith-Dorrien, for example, commanded the British First Army in the early years of WW1 and there were no questions about his bravery, although his tactics might have been better. The Major -General commanding the 51st, The Royal Highland Division,on that terrible morning at the Somme led his men into the intense fire of the Germans, with drawn claymore, the senior RSM of the division, the colours and two pipers as the Jocks demonstrated why they are known as "the ladies from hell". As a whole the British officers were excelled by none and seldom if ever equaled although there were a number of idiots, drunks and general f--kups as in any group. They built the largest empire in history with a small population and relatively few resources, consider Wolfe at Quebec, Brock at Queenston Heights, Gordon at Peking, Kitchener at Khartoum and Roberts at Khandahar. The real problem was guys like Chelmsford who was warned not to split his command before Isandlwanda, but, his arrogance was such that he couldn't accept that the locals might know more about the Zulus than he did. That is true about Cetewayo and the machinations of Bartle-Frere are similiar to those of Starr-Jamieson in the foray into Boer territory in 1896 which resulted in the Boer War; this problem with commercial expansion and the breaking of treaty agreements thereby caused much of the fighting that the Brits got into in that era, naturally the poor ordinary soldiers took the brunt of it. There is an exact parallel here between the attitude of guys like Chelmsford and the attitude of both American and British senior military personnel towards the Japanese just before and in the early part of WW2. We certainly found out the hard way! | |||
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Pity the movie didn't use all Martini Henry's; some were SMLE bolt actions, but I still watch it regularly and also the sister movie "Zulu Dawn". | |||
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Quote: Peter, are you a military man, or have a military background? In any event, if I used wording in my original reply that may have been less than optimal, I regret that. Nothing could have been further from my intention, than not to acknowledge the valor and tenacity of the soldiers at Rorke's Drift (on either side). That would have been preposterous. After all it is hardly an every-day occurrence to survive a battle of 150 vs. 3-4000... No flies on that feat! As I said in my initial reply, I really believe in history, because it can (or should) teach us things. It is good to remember! I think all of us (nations or individuals) to some extent are probably guilty of "selective memories" from time to time, though. I mean, who wants to celebrate loosing the World-Cup, say?? In history however, I do think we need to remember the good as well as the bad sides. Otherwise, we don't stand a chance to learn anything useful for the future. In the case of Rorke's Drift, that also means remembering Isandhlwana or other related historical events. I liked the fact that our discussion brought forth opinions questioning the sense of the whole Anglo - Zulu war. There are too many such examples in our history that we should overlook them. (The Boer war I referred to was another such example, IMHO).OK, back to a military, less historical perspective. Kootenay, I regret if you took my use of the word "creamed" as an indication that I thought less highly of the valor of the British troops at Isandhlwana. Nothing could be further from the truth. Perhaps I should have used wording such as "defeated" instead? One can discuss whether British soldiers were always sent afield based on sound political judgment, or whether they were always led well by their superior officers. But I doubt anybody is going to put their hand in the fire, claiming bad soldiering from the individual British soldier! When you read the descriptions of the battle (e.g. on the website I mentioned above), the tales of good soldiering and valor to the death abound. No, I don't think I meant to degrade the performance of the Soldiers at Isandhlwana, whether they lost or won that battle. - mike | |||
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Quote: Ah, a student of military history. In this case, don't forget the possibly most outstanding of the German generals in WW2: Erich von Manstein. Rommel gets all the glory, but dig a little deeper, and the name von Manstein floats to the top. Different theater, different conditions, different outcome, but I think there is little doubt von Manstein was top of the heap. Apart from planning the French campaign in 1940, his exploits in the Crimea culminating in Sevastopol are remarkable. Like with all German generals of the Nazi-era, there is the question of whether he approved or even participated in Nazi atrocities. I think, like that most German soldiers at the time, he was fascinated with what Hitler gave them, a revival of the army and their Prussian soldier caste, so to speak. Later it became apparent that this grandiose scheme was nothing than a precursor to the downfall. So to some extent, one can describe the entire army as responsible for not having put an end to the madness. Rebellion was far from the Prussian soldier's code of conduct, though. Likewise, one can question whether von Manstein was responsible for atrocities in his part of the front. The Eastern front was probably one of the least hospitable places in WW2, little pardon was asked, and little was given. Undoubtedly, one can find breaches of the Geneva convention also under von Manstein's command. Von Manstein has always been saddled with a big part of the responsibility for the loss of the 6th army at Stalingrad. Why did he not break through to Paulus?? I don't know, but in his book, he describes the situation in the Don Basin as much more threatening for the entire Army Group South, and essentially accepts the offering of the 6th Army as a means to avoid loosing the entire Army Group. True or not, who knows? Anyway, just thought I'd mention the name von Manstein. He seems to be less known in the Anglo Saxon part of the world. - mike | |||
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Quote: Is this the same period of the great and magnificent military tactic of the "slow march" into enemy machine guns? If so the generals should have been strung up instead of praised. And in the same war but another theatre let's not mention drinking tea on the beaches of Gallipoli while the hinterland was undefended. Did they ever get off those beaches? And of course lets not forget ten of thousands of Australian troops shipped to help defend Singapore leaving very few troops to defend Australia, only to be surrendered to the Japanese by a British General who couldn't cope with an enemy that God forbid attacked from the rear !!!  How many of these prsioners ever made it home.There's something to be said for shooting a general that fails. | |||
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Pete, Thanks for bringing up the Rourkes Drift anniversary. Great movie, but unfortunately that is about all I know about the incident. Did this "battle" serve any military purpose eg blocking an advance down the coast? Couldn't these troops have been withdrawn especially considering the odds against them? Just interested in the real strategy and tactics that were involved. | |||
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NitroX, I'm sure Steve will chime in, but until such time, there really is a ton of information about this subject on this website: Website from above. For the specific questions you ask, follow links "The Battle" and "The Zulu Perspective", both are are really interesting reading. The Zulu guy poses some of the same question you do. I suppose it is natural to see a battle from two sides. If you find time, the links "Isandhlwana" and "Ulundi" are also more than interesting. - mike | |||
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Rorke's Drift had about the same strategic importance as Custer at the Little Big Horn. He was stupid and got killed. Chelmsford managed to get away by being absent. The beggers at Rorke's Drift were, as was said'There to build a bridge'. Sir Garnet Woolsey wrote that he was sorry the escaping officers from Isandlwana were not killed with their men as they should have been there leading instead of escaping by virtue of being mounted. He considered the men at Rorke's Drift as doing their duty to save thir own lives. He wrote: "...it is monstrous making heroes of those who saved or attempted to save their lives by bolting or of those who, shut up in buildings at Rorkes's Drift could not bolt and fought like rats for their lives which they could not save otherwise." There it is- done up "Properly Sir Garnet". I'm not sure I share the high opinion of Monty.He had the same imperiousnes and disregard for his men's lives as his predecessors. I'll grant you Gordon but I'm not sure about Roberts | |||
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Mike, No offence taken by your wording or any of your posts; I simply posted this thread as a mark of respect/rememberence to our fallen. This being AR, I should have guessed that others could not see it as simply that... NitroX, I am not great student of military history so I am the last person to ask if the battle had any strategic value or not! having said that, I would think it would have a great significance to the moral of the British and in a negative way to the Zulu?? Anyway, they did what they did and did it remarkably well and agasinst overwhelming odds. They could have cut and run but did not..Some might say that it was foolish, but I prefer to think of it as brave... Regards, Pete | |||
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Like you my knowledge of Rorke's Drift is largely confined to the movie. My gut says that like the Alamo it is a story of great courage and tenacity on the part of the defenders. In a military sense it was foolish on the attackers parts in both cases. It would have been easy to isolate and bypass both forts. In the Alamo it cost Santa Anna his momentum all because of his vanity. In the Alamo it gave Sam Houston time to pull back, gather and reorganize his forces and pick the battle feild. I admit the Zulus had no history of modern warfare or means of military education as we know it, perhaps not even having formulated strategic goals. As far as Sir Woolsey's comments I agree that the officers who fled deserved death for their actions. As far as the comments about soldiers fighting for their lives, unless I misread him I disagree wholely. In the end the individual soldier does not fight for God and Country. He fights for his life and the lives of the comrades about him. | |||
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Pete I'm not knocking the bravery of the troops there at all. If being surrounded and cutoff you fight bravely to stay alive doesn't make the bravery any less. But I was wondering if retreat in this instance wasn't an option. Sometimes these sorts of battles were incidents of an officers intrangience rather than true military strategy. The troops who slow marched into machine guns were undoubtably brave too. More than I could or would ever do. I would shoot the officers and especially the generals first before dying by the hundreds of thousands due to stupidity of leaders. Irrespective of all that Rourkes Drift was a great episode of bravery and winning against the odds. | |||
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Zulu was one of the best "war movies" ever made, IMHO, of course.  I particularly liked the battle scenes and the war of wills between lieutenants ("lefftenants") Bromhead and Chard.The film paid due tribute to the mighty Zulus, and to the valiant British (mostly Welsh) as well. Eleven Victoria's Crosses were awarded to participants in that battle, more in one engagement than ever in British military history. The music was great, too, both the Zulu warriors' battle chants the fine Welsh tenors and baritones in their rendering of the old Welsh battle hymn, "Men of Harlech." Here are the words used in the film (not the traditional words, though, which are, of course, Welsh and date from 1468, when the Welsh fought off an invading English army at Harlech castle): "Men of Harlech, stop your dreaming Can�t you see their spearpoints gleaming See their warrior pennants streaming To this battle field Men of Harlech stand ye steady It can not be ever said ye For the battle were not ready Welshmen never yield From the hills rebounding Let this war cry sounding Summon all at Cambria�s call The mighty foe surrounding Men of Harlech on to glory This will ever be your story Keep these burning words before ye Welshmen will not yield." | |||
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mrlexma, Just a titbit of bacground info gleaned from a visit to the RRW Regimental Museum many years ago...Although the 24th of Foot, the South Wales Borderers are always thought of as a "Welsh Regiment" and indeed had its depot in South Wales somewhere, (Brecon I think, but I might be wrong) in truth, the men who served were from all parts of the UK, just like happens today. In fact, I am pretty sure that the 24th of Foot was actually a relatively new designation for what had been an "English" regigment (I can't remember which one) which has been rebadged when their depot had moved to South Wales...The idea that they were all largely Welsh speakers/singers is just a myth, and the Producers casting Michial Caine (a Cockney!)as an English Officer in a "Welsh" regiment was probably closer to the truth than many people realise! Thats not taking anything away from the 24th of Foot or the men who served, or the Welsh people who took the Regiment to its heart; just an oddity of our regimental system! With regards to "Men of Harlech" I marched off my Passing Out Parade to that, and on many other very special occaions. That tune will always have a very special place in my heart and even today I can't listen to it with out a great sense of pride and emmotion... Regards, Pete | |||
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Have a look at the movie "Gladiator" staring Russell Crowe. The hun's warcry before battling the romans is exactly the same as that from the zulu's  | |||
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Well I decided tonight was a great time to re-watch the movie. I probably watch it a couple times a year. Great meal of webered lamb, very nice bottle of red, good Italian coffee and a couple glasses of Amarula cream to set the scene. And "Zulu". Only thing missing was a Cuban but the wife was there. Anyway I have a few of these "Zulu" DVD's in stock and want to give one away on AR. Just need to think of a way! Any ideas? | |||
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Altjaeger, The Zulu Army was remarkably well organised and had battle tactics which were very well defined. They were organised in "Regiments" which were broken down into smaller formations and were deployed in set formations. They had the notion of keeping forces back in reserve and I believe it was one of those Zulu reserve forces from the earlier attack at Isandlwana which attacked Rorkes Drift after marching some considerable distance over a few days. At that point the Zulu did lack "modern" firearms, having mostely obsolete weapons, and had they had modern firearms, the outcome of Rorkes Drift would probably have been very different. In later engaugements they used arms capatured off the British (and I guess the Boers?) to great effect. The station at Rorkes Drift commanded a river crossing and was slated to be an important part of the British supply chain in that particular area. Perhaps the Zulu's recognised its potential importance to possible future operations? As it was, with defeat of the British at Isandlwana it was largely redundant for those purposes... Regards, Pete | |||
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Thanks Pete for the info. I knew of their organization, but not the significance of the post. | |||
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Alf, For give my inaccurate use of the term "Boer"; I simply meant the local white farmers/settlers who I believed were of Dutch/European origin. Regards, Pete | |||
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I remember having lunch in the RRW officer's mess in Ballykelly. The table silver included water goblets each presented by a different subaltern as a prize for an event of the 24th foot's athletic meeting of 1878 - One year before many of them were killed at Isandwala. Poignant. | |||
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A few years ago I drove down to Islandlhwana and Rorke's Drift. there are a number of monuments tothe fallen soldiers at Islandlhwana, mostly put up to honor the local Natal 'boys'. One is set in Marble and is 'Dedicated to all of the British Soldiers who Gave Their Lives Defending God, King and Country'. I wonder when the new South Africa will have a similiar monument to all of the Zulu Warriors who 'Died Defending God, King and Country'? the soldiers at Rourkes Drift could have withdrawn but it was their duty to obey orders and hold their ground. The original building was destroyed by fire and a new replica is their. It is now a museuma nd craft center for the locals. You can drive a back track from Rourkes Drift to Islandlhwana. It is about 5 miles or you can drive around the loop and it isabout 30 miles. Neither place is what I had imagined as a War Memorial. I guess I've been to too many sites from the American Civlil War. | |||
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