Hi Guys .... BASC has announced the Arran stalking dates for 2008/2009 and bookings are on a "first come first served" basis. Might be a good idea to confirm bookings ASAP.
Waidmannsheil .... Alan

I cant´t find the Arran announcement on the BASC homepage... ?
( It´s not the first time I´m lost in the world web by the way )

Arild,

The link your looking for is:

BASC Stalking on Arran

I have to say that as far as navigation goes, the BASC site is not very user friendly at all, so its not just you!

Regards,

Pete

It's excellent value but depending on how far you have to come the costs mount up quickly.

For me adding in petrol, accomodation, food and ferry not to mention a drink or two it's north of £750 for the stags. Quite a lot of cash.

Of course there is the chance of a medal head for this money - there is also the chance of a complete wash out due to weather.... It's enough to give pause.

Pete E,
Thanks for the link to Arran.
As a mariner I should be familiar with navigation , but I never stop wondering the lack of logic in some of the internet sites...

1894mk2,
For me such a trip would cost quite a lot. But then it would be more than just a stalking trip.
The chance to see Scotland, meet new friends, experience a new way of stalking the mighty Red...a bit tempting I must say

Arild,

The potential problem for overseas members of BASC who wish to take part is that they must hold a DSC Level 1.

If you have that, then you need to make your mind up quickly as spaces on the what are perceived to be the more desirable weeks go quickly..

Regards,

Pete

Pete E and others- That small bit of getting a DSC level 1 is there any way of getting one in a weekend or similar short time?

At about 300 £ the course is not dirtcheap and even though I feel that I would like to take it, there is that part of getting on UK ground, doing the course and passing it and at the same time not break the bank.

Any advice, I would love to have a go at Arran in the future.

Best regards Chris

Chris,

Funnily enough, I was in the BASC HQ this afternoon and was discussing this particular issue.

There is the option of just sitting the exam and doing the practical tests, primarily a shooting test. If you did that, you would only need to attend for the day.

If you wanted to do this, your best bet would be to pick a UK airport you could get cheap flights too, and then find someone running the examination reasonably near by.

I'm not sure if you can borrow a rifle to do the shooting tests, but if you could it might simplify the travel arrangements considerably.

Obviously this would entail you studying on your own, but the BDS do produce an excellent manual which covers the course syllabus. There is also other material available aimed at people doing the Level 1.

Another alternative is that BASC would be willing to send a trainer over to run a DMQ1 course in Sweden or where ever. Apparently they have done this in the past for members in Holland.

Obviously you would need to have a enough people interested to justify this (probably at least a dozen I would think) and the course fees would need to reflect the travel expenses of the trainer.

Regards,

Pete

Guys,

For those that came to Baldock, the licences you have will be valid for the coming year, so you can basically come over with your own gun no problem. A flight into Gatwick and you will be about 45mins away from Wadhurst Deer Park where they conduct the DSC courses.

We know the guys there so if anyone would like to just sit an exam and do the shooting test, (I might be interested myself) I can see if they will put it on for us.

I'm sure a bit of sport can be made available if it is done at the right time of year!!

Rgds,
FB

This is an international site with some great cross border friendships. I think it would be great to have other Europeans stalk but the scheme in Arran is designed for British (underlined) association of shooting conservation members who would otherwise not have the opportunity to undertake such stalking because it's expensive.

The internet is a very small part of the stalking scene (a fact which we forget), it would be sad to remove the chance for a non IT literate English (I suppose I must also say Welsh or Scottish too ) plumber. At the moment that is unlikely as I don't think they are fully booked but things change.

The other thing is that the scheme is quite sensitive in Arran and amongst the FC. Non British stalkers could be an issue.

No doubt Griff will contribute to this. I really don't want to seem negative but thought is needed. It would be as well to check with BASC that they would accept a foreign booking before undertaking the training.

1894mk2,

I can see where you're coming from, but if BASC are happy to have off-shore members, surely those members should be treated the same as everybody else??? Like I said, I was in BASC HQ this afternoon, and the main hurdle was the possession of the DSC Level 1...Whether the FC on Arran would be happy is a different matter..

Beside, the rates Plumber's charge these days, they don't need cheap stalking!

Regards,

Pete

quote:

Originally posted by DJM:
The best plan may to do the BDS online distance learning

http://www.bds.org.uk/online_learning_course.html

and then fly in and do the assessment at Wadhurst the last course was only a couple of weeks ago and there isn't another on the calendar but I am sure something could be worked out.

DJM,

Just noticed the assorted fees for doing the online course, registration and assessment!

At least Dick Turpin had the decency to wear a mask when he robbed you!

Regards,

Pete

I for one totally agree with 1894 over this. This is a fledgling scheme/initiative that was a long time coming to benefit and provide access to Red deer stalking for British shooters.
As a long time BASC member the thought of future prime weeks being blocked booked by Euro waving chequebooks I find repugnant.
Hopefully BASC although often criticised for its increasing mercenary tendancies is basically run by its members for its members benefit.
Since it has been raised, I'll wager if Griff gets on to council this is going to be something he will be quickly involved in insuring cannot occur.

As I understand it there has been an Italian gent who has been on the Arran scheme a couple of times.

Just to clarify this is an Italian gentleman, resident in Italy and he took DSC1 in the UK, joined BASC and then therefore qualified.

At the moment that is all that is necessary to qualify for the scheme so I suppose the precedent has already been set.

Realistically I feel if individuals are paid up members and DSC1 qualified then they are entitled to the shooting.

However there is something to be aware of, in that (and I'm not talking from experiencehere) the stalking isn't the traditional romantic picture of highland stalking that many of our overseas friends would read about. The logistics of no guide, deer extraction and self extraction are not to be taken lightly.

I now pplenty of places where a visiting gun can get a couple of stags on the hill for that money,(usually abour £350/stag I tink now) and have none of the hassels. The chance of a real big head may not be there but its swings and roundabouts.

If you want the wild self guided hard hunt then Arran, if you want somethign a little less rough round the edges then perhaps somewhere else would be best.

Again I've not been to Arran but just go by what I hear from my "rough round the edges" friends...

FB

I am sorry that I have stirred up a bit of a conflict here not my intention.

I for one would really like to hunt a place like Arran, the rough hunt in it self is a part of the experience for me.

If Arran is a spot for the British only then I am ok with that, I´ll just have to try and find another place to go stalking.

Do other grounds also require the same DSC level 1?

Best regards Chris.

Hey it's not conflict it's discussion!

While it's under subscribed it's not so much of an issue but there are people for whom it's the only way to get out without a guide and it would be a shame to deny that to them in the future.

Those without DSC level 1 can create an Arran experience by placing turf in the shower which is placed on the cold setting and doing step ups for periods interspersed by sitting still. At a randomly programmed time (and by random there should be the possibility that it stops in darkness or never) the shower should stop at which point you should ready yourself to shoot something. Every night you should drink too much and go to bed too late.

quote:

Those without DSC level 1 can create an Arran experience by placing turf in the shower which is placed on the cold setting and doing step ups for periods interspersed by sitting still. At a randomly programmed time (and by random there should be the possibility that it stops in darkness or never) the shower should stop at which point you should ready yourself to shoot something. Every night you should drink too much and go to bed too late.

This sounds like quite an experience

Otherwise I´m with Chris.
The Arran set up sounds like a challenging stalk, not so very different from the way we stalk red and even moose on the "wildest" and most remote places in the old Viking Kingdom of Norway

I also guess that regarding the DSC we have no benefit or "bonus" from our national Hunters Certificate, and the annual big game shooting test ?
On other words, one have to start at scratch?

DJM,

Isn't DMQ a joint venture between BASC and BDS? I know they share accommodation with BASC HQ at Marford Mill..

It wasn't just the registration fees I was meaning either...the online BDS course itself is very expensive.

At grass roots level in both organizations, you seem to get a lot of people who contribute their time and energy organizing various events ect..

However once the higher echelons get involved, these events seem to morph into a license to print money at the ordinary members expense...

Shouldn't hijack the thread, but its just something that is a hobby horse of mine..

Regards,

Pete

I told you it was a horse!!!

FB

OK

I see and should I then after a through soaking in the shower, grabb an old brom stick and go stalking in the appartement after the illusive red hind?

I belive it´s commonly found in between the sheets in that hard to get to place called, bed.

However the red hind is a temeramentfull beast and is not to be underestimated or the whole stalk could be spoiled.

I have heard of other men being succesful in these kinds of adventured, however my own succes rate is low, I usually end up getting beaten over the head with a frying pan or other equivivilant kitchen utensile.

Perhaps I should stay clear of this sort of indoor "Arran" experience and just go for a drink with me mates at any of the local bars?

How does your significante other react to a big pile of turf in the shower and mud tracks all around the house?

On a more serious note, Arild and I share concepts on how a rough stalk/hunt could and or should be, be it on Arran ground or not.

FB- your ideas are great and I do like the idea to go through with the concept of coming over to get the DSC level 1.

Best regards Chris

quote:

Originally posted by 1894mk2:
Hey it's not conflict it's discussion!

While it's under subscribed it's not so much of an issue but there are people for whom it's the only way to get out without a guide and it would be a shame to deny that to them in the future.

Those without DSC level 1 can create an Arran experience by placing turf in the shower which is placed on the cold setting and doing step ups for periods interspersed by sitting still. At a randomly programmed time (and by random there should be the possibility that it stops in darkness or never) the shower should stop at which point you should ready yourself to shoot something. Every night you should drink too much and go to bed too late.

The question of who is entitled to apply for the Arran scheme is an interesting one, and it is tricky to get a balance. However if someone is a BASC member and meets the requirements then I don't see how the location of their house could be a factor. I suspect I could make similar arguments based on the fact that the scheme is in Scotland and so English people should be excluded, there are after all 2 similar type schemes in England. Would such a restriction be any less valid than excluding those from elsewhere in Europe?

I think the concern with the Arran scheme might be that it, like so many similar things, becomes an old boys club where the same faces turn up year after year to take "their" week. People already in such a club might not be too pleased at interest from, say, European BASC members who might not know their place. I'm not saying that this has happened or that anyone on here would wish it to happen, just that there seems to be potential for this to take place.

I personally think the scheme is a great idea and hope sometime to have the time, and money, to take advantage of it and so to gain some more experience which is, I think, the main purpose of the scheme. Perhaps, to prevent the old boys club situation, it could be organised such that those who were on the scheme last year can't apply during the first two weeks after bookings open on the following year. This would allow new people the opportunity to apply for a good week with some chance of success, would allow regulars to apply for a good week every 2nd year or still provide them with a reasonable chance if they go every year and would prevent the "my" week attitude from developing while not restricting or reducing applications.

Most of the people I know who are "regulars" on the scheme have access to a lot of stalking and the Arran scheme is just a cheap week for them on the side. However, I think the real purpose should be to assist those with reduced access to stalking or who are not so well off that the Arran week fits in among weeks on big name estates so the "2 week delay" idea I propose above would help these people stand a chance of getting a good week without actually stopping others filling all the places.

Hi caorach .... As one of your so called "regulars" I would like to take the opportunity to respond to your restrictive practice, comments and recommendations.

Firstly, everyone that has expressed an interest in the Arran scheme is informed simultaneously by email, or post sent several days earlier, that the 2008/09 dates are available for booking. Bookings are taken fairly on a "first come first served" basis with no added benefit for those who have been on previous years. There is no "old boys club" or "regulars" who feel a particular week is "their week" that I know of.

As for Arran being a cheap week, I can shoot large Irish woodland stags 40 mins drive from my door for free. Factor in return ferry to Scotland, onward return ferry to Arran, accommodation, meals and refreshments for a week plus £360 for BASC and no change out of £1,200.

Anyone that gets off their arse, pays promptly for their booking and walks the hills of Arran in all weathers rifle in hand belongs to a fairly unique band of brothers. Why don't you try it and see if you want a return dose of the same medicine before inflicting your recommendations on those of us that "walk the walk".

As for you overseas guys, get level 1, come and be welcomed. BASC have been offered more stalking leases than you can wave a stick at. The BASC deer dept needs to gear up and develop an infrastructure that can cope with the opportunities offered and cater for allcomers. Do any of the rest of you "Arran regulars" have any objections to continental shooters investing their time and money to join us on the hill? Carpet slippers are optional ..

Well done Cohannon ,tell it how it is.As a Arran fan too I say do it before making any judgments, you will be hooked.As for overseas visitors ,the more interest that is generated in the schemes hopefully the more will be offered to the members.

I stand with Cohannon,

Us select 'Band of Brothers' all come from the rough end of the market.

We have seen the 'Gentlemen stalkers' come and fall on Arran. We do not usually see them again.

Given that the format of the scheme is somewhat different, it pays to have some old timers, (with some service in), and to team them up with some of the less experienced participants.

It's not cheap. It's not a fill in. Most of us class it as one, if not our only, major stalking event of the year.

Come one and all. Fill the Sub's. to the gunnels. That way, we could convince BASC to put on more of these leases and so provide even more good value stalking experiences for us all.

I, as a soft southerner, have no objection to other foreigners (as I class myself as one once we get North of Watford), taking part and enjoying a unique stalking experience.

As long as they're up for the Craic and can stand the pace, all are welcome.

It may not be to the likes of all. We have seen this in the past. But it is far from exclusive stalking and open to all.

It's just that there is always a mad faction of the populous that will need that Arran fix at least once a year.

Long may it prosper!!!

I accept all the criticism of my comments as I haven't as yet been on the Arran scheme and my comments were based upon concerns expressed, if not explicitly, in this thread and in person. If the people actually using the scheme don't feel there is a need for any such management of bookings then, quite clearly, no problem exists.

It must be said that those who did respond seem very keen to highlight the "Band of Brothers" thing and this might appear to support my premise, which I fully accept may be entirely unfounded, that the scheme is already somewhat of a clique thing. On the other hand there is no harm in enjoying something and wanting to go back the next year and I suspect that is what I'm hearing rather than people building a secret society.

However, I can assure you that walking the hills of Arran for a week holds no fear for me and I look forward to having both the time and the money to try for hinds on Arran in the future. I apologise if I upset anyone and hope you will accept that my suggestions were just what seemed to me like a simple solution to a problem I was hearing about from others.

Caorach,
No chritisism intended!

Those that have experienced the ambiance of the Edan Bar, stinking , wet and smelly after a long day on the hill ( bog, ankle breaking clear fell, knat infested forest etc....)may feel that we are, or have an alegance, to a band of brothers.

That's the point.

every year, I and my friends have met new people. We bond and make a bigger group.

There has, so far, always been spare places on the scheme. So much so that stalking has been offered free on this site. (Correct me if I am wrong Griff).

I, myself , have taken three others on the scheme. All novices, all with some success or experience for what they put in to take away.

All in all, it has been a total challange that they would not have had on guided stalk.

That's why we bond.

Some of use have our own stalking. Free or paid for. A lot of the time, something that we can't share with other because of syndicates, soul rites or others. But this is something that all can all take part in.

Stalking is a strange game.It can be very insuller.We like to all take part, but not all of us have the oppertunity.

This is one of them.

I, as one of those that took part of the Boldock bash , can see that we need to make a wider circle of contacts, and what will lead to fellow friends to unify our sport.

Feel free and join in.

Spot on puntgunner; the advice of an old senior constable rings in my ears: "Don't believe any s..t you hear, half of what you see and keep your opinions to yourself until your numerals are dry"

Anyone wanting to "police" Arran stalking or anywhere else needs to win their spurs on the ground and venture informed opinion thereafter.

All,
there is a possibility that if there was enough interest in dsc 1 that you could have it in your own country!
Pay for someone to come over and do the assesment on that day, split between 20-30 participants not a great deal of cost.

regards
griff

There are no extraction issues on Arran that is what WE are there for, myself and Bob Logan the F.C ranger.Boys club it certainly is not, yes we have several members that participate every year, that in itself speaks volumes.
The scheme needs to be better publicized, and is continually being fine tuned, and it is with constructive critisism that we can only improve
regards
griff

quote:

Originally posted by griff:
There are no extraction issues on Arran.....

Well, maybe the odd minor one......