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I have been invited to hunt in Germany on a private estate. I have been looking in my new AKAH catalogue and have been thinking about ordering some hunting apparel. I really do not want stick out or be disrespectful to my hosts. Can any one advise me on this. I will be hunting in Isny area. I regards to firearms I will be shooting my R93 in 9,3 x 62mm. Thanks, Aleko | ||
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Aleko As a general rule I would leave any camo at home. | |||
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I really do not own any cammo. I lived in RSA too long just got used to those prohibitions. Most of my stuff is Loden and Khaki. Aleko | |||
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quote:Aleko, sounds like you are paying a visit to Blaser (Isny)... That should be good trip, that part of Germany is really pretty. Now about clothing. The Germans (and with them the Austrians and to some extent the Swiss) do get hung up about tradition quite a bit. It has its good and its bad sides. Good because tradition is important and worth keeping for our children. Bad because there are certain people who misinterpret all this to become a conformity requirement. Never mind, this is not your problem, and you are doing the right thing in trying to do as the Romans - so to speak. Most important - try to select loden, olive green type colours. Almost anything will do from quite light to dark loden. Just stay away from bright greens. If you are looking in the AKAH catalog, you'll get the idea. Obviously, your hosts will appreciate if you choose garments suited to the time of the year you'll hunt. And quiet clothes will be appreciated all the more if there is some stand hunting involved - in particular for pigs. Let's assume for the moment you are going this autumn/winter. The best you can get is loden - quiet and warm, and can be expected to be the right colour. Trousers, jacket, coat and/or cape would be perfect. Obviously, other materials are also fine, but do watch out that laminated materials (e.g. Goretex etc) don't get too noisy. Loden is #1, end of the story (unless you happen to hunt in summer, in which case soft cottons would be it). A hat would be greatly appreciated by both you (keeps your head warm) and your hosts, as you would be able to take off your hat with all the rest of the hunters if you take part in the ceremonies preceeding and following a driven hunt. Again loden is first choice. If you are on a driven hunt, a small pocket-size horn is appreciated to pass on horn signals (start drive, end drive). Boots suitable to weather, pacs are acceptable in snow. Quiet footwear is appreciated. Your gun sounds just right - Isny is Blaser country after all, and a 9.3x62 is never a bad choice! (A magnum would be unless you'd be hunting very specific species). So, I hope I have not scared you away. I'm sure you'll have a ball of a time. The better you fit into the crowd, the better you'll probably feel. Your hosts would probably pardon you if you showed up in mossy-oak - being a foreigner and all, but you'll probably feel better if you blend in... ![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif){kind=icon} Have fun, and much Weidmansheil! - mike | |||
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double post [ 10-07-2003, 00:58: Message edited by: mho ] | |||
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Yes, I am going to Blaser. I really want to dress as appropriate as possible. We will be shooting Roe deer and Boars. When I get my kit sorted out I will let you know. Aleko | |||
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Aleko Does Blaser know how much you dislike their Double Rifles? | |||
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hey Aleko, i think the most important things already have been said ![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif){kind=icon} If u are already do have green or khaki gear that will fit to the climate, i think u won�t have to buy you some new things,although Loden is a favourite european hunting stuff. Maybe you can ask your host if there is a good hunting store near your location. So you may can go there shopping. Especially in the Alp�s they do have a special kind of loden. Its calles Tyroler Loden. It�s more durable and tuffer as normal Tuch - or Strichloden! The colour varies too, it�s not plain green ..it�s a mix of brown, grey, green . For me it�s just looking great. RAscher e.g. is producing the best Loden Items..theire web adresse is: www.rascher.de You can get them at Kettner or Frankonia ( www.frankonia.de or www.kettner.de) ..OH i just recieved a call and have to leave... If u do have any further questions..feel free to ask me! cheers and all the best for your Trip, Konstantin P.S:don�t forget to take some nice photos of the area and the game you have taken www. | |||
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May be here are some very traditional guys, but I use Loden only for hunting in which a very low noise clothing is requied. Never for driven hunts. There are the usual deerhunter jackets or jackets like this http://www.oefele.de/html/monatsknuel.htm much more usefull, cheaper and can be washed without problem. So if you have some standard green clothes I would not care about. Only have a look about the climate. In the Allg�u (the area in which Isny is)had yesterday the first snow. So be prepared for cold and wet whether and even snow. But hunt boar you will not do in Isny. That is a bit high for boar. They will bring you to an other place I think. Best regards | |||
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Yes, they do. I have told them in an open letter and in person. I really do not care. I like the K 95 and the R 93. We have been trying to arrange this trip for sometime. I should be getting a call this week. Johan, I have owned enough English doubles to tell you they are not as wonderful as they should be. Some are pretty rough. Others impress me like the Westley Richards Drop Lock I have been shooting. I have owned two Westley Richards bolt guns that I would not trust in the field. I have contacted my hosts and AKAH we will see what they have to say. Thanks to all for the advice. Aleko | |||
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Aleko, From bitter experience there are some conflicting requirements in stand hunting. The walk to the stand can be long, arduous and hot and you might be quite close to game when you arrive. In such situations the rule of lot's of layers goes out the window as the time and noise to fight one's way into it all is very counterproductive and scares game away. A walk in clothing warm enough for the stand results in sweat which then freezes ugh ![[Frown]](images/icons/frown.gif){kind=icon} I now have one of these:- http://www.deerhunter.dk/p204.asp#Belfastfiberpelsuk Which I carry on my pack and shrug into when I arrive - instant toastie ![[Cool]](images/icons/cool.gif){kind=icon} . It's cheap too! A tripod seat is great and surprisingly easy to shoot from. If sport is slow don't forget to call the biggest buck of the day by putting down your rifle and pouring a mug of coffee from your flask! Have fun. | |||
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Good feedback you are getting Aleko. I actually like the "Deerhunter" clothes (from Denmark) very much. I also like the pile clothing 1894 suggested: cheap(ish), quiet and warm. Not terribly windresistant, unfortunately. What perhaps I like the most from Deerhunter are their trousers in thick, brushed cotton. Something like this: Deerhunter Moleskin gear. As Sauenjaeger correctly pointed out to us, loden is not the most practical in terms of maintenance and the price can be pretty high (I still maintain it is #1 choice for functionality in cold weather). So something like this might be a viable alternative: quiet, more affordable, and easier to maintain. This type of material can also be had from a number of other manufacturers. Just in case you needed some alternatives ... - mike [ 10-08-2003, 22:54: Message edited by: mho ] | |||
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quote:It is waterproof (internal membrane) so it is windproof, at �75 it is cheaper than most fleece jumpers! | |||
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Adam, That address brings up a whole page of jackets...I take it your talking about the Belfast jacket with the deertex membrane? If so would you mind saying where you can get them for �75? I have a similar but slightly shorter jacket meant for carp fishermen...its ok, but the "fleece" outer is still not quite 100% silent.. Anybody know for any truely silent 100% waterproof trousers. I have some Deerhunter Ram trousers, but they still give a slight "swish" as you walk...I think its down to the membrane rubbing... Regards, Pete [ 10-09-2003, 00:51: Message edited by: Pete E ] | |||
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So I guess you need a rucksack with the stand hunting gear. Aleko | |||
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A rucksack is always a good idea. Not only will it allow you to carry extra clothing to the stand, but one invariably accumulates a number of practical items one would like at hand (knife, piece of rope, string, bug juice, butane lighter, gloves, flashlight, felt seat cover etc etc), but which somehow don't fit into even copius pockets. Some hunters dislike wearing a pack, and I can see why. It is a bit cumbersome, and in particular entering and leaving narrow stands can be a challenge wearing one. I'm unfortunately the type of person who likes to bring stuff along, so I bring a pack. If you are going on a driven hunt, there are even packs with an integrated stool. Make sure the pack material is quiet - just like the rest of the gear. A lot of "stool packs" are noisy to sit on, so a "test sitting" is pactical before investing the hard earned $$$. We are slowly getting you kitted out for about a decade of European hunting... - mike | |||
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quote:Aha, so they have started using waterproof membranes on these jackets. Just goes to show one must keep up with the latest in gear development... I have two of the Deerhunter pile jackets, one is unlined (hardly any windresistance, but ever so quiet), and one has a light liner providing some wind resistance but no waterproofing. Just goes to show that the world does not stand still... In general, I find the quality of the Deerhunter stuff to be good, and prices don't seem too outlandish.- mike | |||
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Mike, I suppose a traditional Roesack should be our recommendation to Aleko???????? What are the hunting shops like in Switzerland? Regards Pete | |||
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Not quite sure what a "roesack" is?? Am I right in assuming: just a very simple rucksack allowing you to wrestle a roe carcass into it?? I have seen those types of packs. As long as the material is quiet, I don't see why not use one of these. They are about as simple as they come. In general hunting shops in Switzerland are so-so. There are few (or no) really big ones, at least that I'm aware of. Nothing to compare with a well assorted Frankonia shop, I'm afraid. - mike | |||
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Mike, Yes thats the sort I had in mind...they come with a removeable waterproof liner and a minimal amount of metal hardware....I got rid of mind as the cotton/canvas was too noisy/scratchy but a friend has a real nice German one made from loden.... One of these days I am going to spend a weekend in Germany visiting Franconia and Kettners! talk about a kid in a sweet shop! ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon} Regards, Pete | |||
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Yeah, yeah know the kind you are talking about! Actually the pack I use here is pretty much the same, just has a couple of outside pockets too. You need the liner if you want to carry game in it, though, gets pretty messy otherwise . I must admit to still using my economical canvas one, I was always too cheap to buy a loden sack! Besides my packs are subject to pretty tough use (I sit on them a lot...), so the canvas is a robust alternative.You should consider going to Munich for the beer festival (October Fest - although it largely takes place in September). That way you could combine a good booze-up with a visit to Frankonia in Munich... The Frankonias in W�rzburg, I believe, is the biggest, and the one in Stuttgart is also pretty servicable. It is a bit like a kid in a toy-store when you walk in there... If you want to make sure a particular shop has a particular item from the catalog, call before you plan to visit. They don't always have everything in stock, but will get it for you if they know you want to take a look. - mike | |||
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Hey, => DEERHUNTER I own a Deerhunter JAcket ( the model before the belfast shows up) . I think they are not as cheap as others but -to be honest- i�m not quiete sure if the quality is okay. With my jacket i don�t have any bigger problems but what i don�t find that nice is how the buttowns are fixed onto the material. They just make a small whole through the fibre pile and then fixed the buttons through the gore tex membrane. So if u have your storm flap closed and like to open it, you have to take care when opening again, personalyy, i�m allways afraid that i can tear away the fibre pile. Hard to explain... the things with the buttons, but hope u understand what i try to say. The noise level ( because of the goretex= deertex membrane) isn�t as quiete as loden or any other material without a membrane. What i realy feel sad, is that DEERHUNTER don�t offer any bibs that will reach up top the TORSO. Another danish Trademark is Laaksen.But they are much higher from the price level than Deerhunter. There are numerous of good other "nordish" hunting gear trademarks, like SEELAND, H�RKILA or Swedteam. www.swedteam.com maybe i will start another thread to hear what u think about Deerhunter clothings -All the best Konstantin | |||
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sorry, in my first sentences i don�t want to say..that deerhunter is not as cheap as others.....what i originaly wanted to say was the opposite. They are cheaper tahn others. Konst | |||
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Pete, RRP is �90 so it's not hard to get such a discount. Mine is courtesy of the fact that the manager of the local gunshop is ex REME! I use a loden roe sac to take my gear to the stand. The tripod seat legs sit in the middle back outer pocket with the top running through the carry handle such roe sacs have. My bulky jacket is slung on the outside. I have an extra fleece in the pack and in the outside pockets carry a small flask, some raisins (waistline)a piece of foam to sit on, a headover (great kit), camera and map. I may ditch the flask as I have a suspicion I missed seeing a bull on the first drive last year by pouring a mug of tea..... [ 10-09-2003, 18:13: Message edited by: 1894 ] | |||
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Slowly my kit is comming togeather. Now for ammo I was plannig on using Lapua 285 grs megas out of my R 93 or should I shoot A2 Dead Toughs. I really do not think that Boars require the Dead tough Aleko | |||
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Aleko Regarding the rucksack - Blaser is offering on of their own make - quite nice - try to get one as a present during your visit Blaser Rucksack Maybe they include a nice Blaser hat and the Blaser field dressing set? Good hunting & an nice trip! Franz | |||
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Aleko, we'll need some of the people who have used the 9.3x62 (in particular on pigs) a lot for hunting to chime in here. I don't have that experience, but I'll offer an opinion anyway (who can resist ). The 9.3x62 is not very hard on bullets - due to its lowish velocity. That is one of the advantages of this caliber. So you don't necessarily need bullets of very complicated construction. For pigs, you need something that holds together well, but still expands to a decent (if not overly) large diamater size. I have not used the Lapua Mega - but from the construction the bullet looks sensible. I don't think the "A2 Dead Tough" is what you'll want. Pigs come in all sizes, and you face the dilemma that a small pig is not that tough, whereas a big one is plenty hard! So you want something, which is guaranteed to expand well, even on a softer animal. I'd stay away from the Dead Tough. All the more so since you'll also be hunting roe. Other options could include Norma with a 285 grs Oryx. They expand quite a lot, but at least they stick together well due to the bonded core. A heavy Swift A-Frame would be just about perfect for handloading. FWIW - mike [ 10-10-2003, 13:35: Message edited by: mho ] | |||
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Hey Aleko, I realy don�t think that you nead the Death tough Bullet at all. I shoot myself a 9,3*74R with a "normal" RWS Softpoint bullet with 18,5gramm bullet weight, and to make it short it works fantastic . On roes you will have a good bloodtrail, but you have to expect that they will run approx 50 meters after they got the shot. On Boars just perfect, hit and down! I like to give u a hint concerning shoot placement. If you aim for the middle of the shoulder you will have instant kills and will find your boars knocked down -in mosr cases- on the place where they get the bullet. If u aim for the heart, even with a 9,3*62, they will run with no bigger Problewms 100- 150 meters. A friend of mine uses the lighter Softpoint ( 16,0 gramms) in his 9,3*62 and this setup is what he uses with big confident on any european deer and wild boars too with great satisfaction. He also is a reloader and has tested a big various bullet types over years... and the 16 gramms softpoint ( it is offered by GECO, the "cheaper line" of RWS)is where he stucks. He kills about 50 boars per year and 30 (fallows and reds) any year too. Concerning shot placement: A lot of hunters aim behind the shoulders because you won�t destroy much meat, in most cases just harm the ribs,.....but the game will go after it got the shot. But my opinion is, that it�s better to have a little bit more meat destroy ( shoulders) but have your game on the spot where it recieved the shot. Wish u all the best, konstantin | |||
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I don't honestly think you can fail with any ammunition except FMJ or something that doesn't expand so I would tend to go softer rather than harder. Make a note of the lead required in terms of your rifle. I know that at 50 yards the lead is the tip of my barrel to the tip of the forend and at 100yards it is the tip of my barrel to the tip of my scope. The first dead moose (in my case) I see I lay my rifle tip on the centre of the vital area and see where on a real animal I should be aiming for ateither range. I have seen some huge differences in target size - this really helps | |||
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quote:Sorry to be thick 1894, but what is this all about?? Are you talking about estimating leads when shooting at running targets?? And how is this business "tip of my barrel to the tip of the forend" to be understood?? If everybody understands this, I apologize for my stupid questions, and I'll go home and cover myself in the ashes from my cooking fire... ![[Roll Eyes]](images/icons/rolleyes.gif){kind=icon} - mike | |||
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quote:But, but you are from U.K. and not German, how come this passion for Jerry stuff I have to admit the shops are a treat, fill up the credit card and let it be hammerd ![[Razz]](images/icons/tongue.gif){kind=icon} ![[Eek!]](images/icons/shocked.gif){kind=icon} / JOHAN | ||
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quote:Mike, you're not the only one. I too was wondering what the hell he is talking about. | |||
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If you shoot at moving targets using the maintained lead principle then you need to know how far in front of the vital area to aim. I don't carry a measure in the field but I do know that at 50 yards I need a lead the length of my naked barrel on an average running thing. It is simple at the end of the first drive to sidle up to the dead animal and measure this by laying my rifle on the animal I'm going to be shooting at. Hey presto middle neck of a boar or front of shoulder on a moose at 50m and tip of snout and wattle at 100m. When you get to the stand you can run various scenarios through your head while you are waiting....if a boar ran past by that tree I'd aim at the tip of it's snout etc. For those who live there it comes naturaly for those of us who don't it takes a bit more thought. | |||
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What is the best shooting practice for hunting in Europe. I usually warm up off the bench then shoot from field positions. Aleko | |||
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That will depend a lot on what kind of hunting you'll be doing: stand, driven or mountain?? Obviously, on a driven hunt, you'll be shooting at moving (sometimes VERY moving, believe me ) animals, off-hand. Distances max 50-60 meters, maybe. Not a whole bunch longer. I guess that also answers the practice question for that type of hunting. Btw, this is one place where your R93 may shine. That fast follow-up shot can't really be used that many other places in hunting, but on a driven hunt it may well come in handy.In stand hunting, you'll most likely be shooting off the edge of your high seat, so shooting off different rested positions, body twisted into strange positions may come in handy. Probably most important of all, learn to shoot quickly and accurately when the command is given. Remember always to pad your rifle against hard surfaces. Last option: mountain hunting. Most shooting in this discipline would likely be off your pack, or (less likely) off various rocks, branches or tree trunks. Other than for driven hunts, it is unlikely that you will need off-hand shooting on an invitation, European hunt. Europeans don't much appreciate wounded animals, so long and/or risky shots are frowned upon. Make sure you can kill what you pull your trigger at!!! If not, you will be thought of much higher if you choose not to take the shot ("I was not sure I could kill it" - a perfect answer, and a million times better than "I'm sorry, I thought I could kill it"!). Remember, venison is sold and is an important part of the equation of paying for the hunting area (in Germany). So well shot animals (above all, no gut shots) will also earn you applause. - mike [ 10-21-2003, 07:43: Message edited by: mho ] | |||
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Could somebody tell me what Loden is? I just thought it was a color, but seems like it is an actual material. Somebody said that they wouldn't make drives with it, is that because it is not durable? I want something quiet but durable for hunting the Sierras. The down jacket I have now (courtesy of Costco) is not only bulky but made of some kind of waterproof shell and makes that "swish swish" sound. Red | |||
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Red, Loden is a traditional woolen material from Southern Germany and Austria. If I'm not much mistaken, it has undergone some processing (perhaps a bit akin to how felt is made?) before the tightly spun wool actually becomes Loden. It is very quiet, like the best woolen clothing it keeps its insulating properties when wet, quite robust, quite expensive, and as most woolen clothing touchy to wash. It really is great stuff for hunting clothing - as are many other woolen materials. Because Loden is so quiet, it has become a favorite for stand hunting for animals sensible to sound (foxes, boar spring to mind). There is absolutely nothing wrong with using Loden for driven hunts, but in this hunting there is more noise involved anyway, so maybe Loden/wool can't play its best trumph in this type of hunting - although it is an advantage to be quiet in all types of hunting. If you are looking for woolen materials to hunt the US, where a particukar colour is not such a big thing, have you checked out the Weatherby website? There also used to be a company called something like "Sleeping Indian Designs" (web site), they manufactured high quality woolen hunting clothing. Wilson is a traditional manufacturer, and Cabelas has quite a few woolen hunting lines (they also sell the Weatherby line, but apparently at higher prices than Weatherby). Alternatively, you can get surplus woolen outdoor clothing for a fraction of the price of new stuff. Much of the surplus stuff is excellent quality. - mike [ 10-21-2003, 07:29: Message edited by: mho ] | |||
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Loden is a kind of felt. Nothing else. You should not wash it in the maschine. You have to wash by hand or dry cleaning. That is the reason why I do only use on high stand. Usually you don't need to wash then often. But on driven hunts the dogs jumping arround, walk through the mud and dependend of the wheather your stand can be very uncomfortable and dirty, so you often need to wash the jacket. Otherwise you are as dirty as the boar. Some old Loden I washed and had no problem. But to test on new 500� Loden-wear I do not like. Heritage, you should buy your things at Kettner. The guys which own Blaser just bought the bankrupt Kettner also. THe link I showed has a fibre pile jacket with waterproof membrane for 99�. Should be about 65 GBP. I use it now for 6 years and no problems. Sure a heavy Loden is warmer. But for the normal use not necessary. Pete, there are some more nice hunting and gun shops here. NOt only Frankonia and Kettner. Have a look at Beer in Kempten (http://www.waffen-beer.de/jagd.html), Frank in Mainz(http://www.vdb-info.com/waffen_frank/katalog/index.html), Hof (http://www.waffen-hof.de)or Triebel (http://www.triebel.de) And a lot others. We should not forget them and only providing the two big one. Best regards | |||
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Sauenj�ger1, Any hunting shops which have a website in English? Regards, Pete | |||
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