At what point in the accuracy stages would you bin a rifle?
I have seen several threads that seem to accept 2"@ 100yds, that to me would send that rifle to the smelting pot.
What is acceptable to You?

regards
griff

I'd better send myself to the smelting pot!

For me I would say upto a max of approx .6 possibly .7 MOA 3 shot group.

However this is only because I feel if I am getting that level of accuracy I would be confident of, at some point, improving on this to get it down to around half or sub half.

Really for a keeper I like to get things to half MOA or less.

Depends on the gun and purpose. This is posted under Big Game Hunting so here are what I consider reasonable real world criteria.

Offhand, standing without any support, if you can consistently put your shots into 6" at 100 yards and most of them in 4" then you are doing pretty well regardless of the rifle's "inherent" accuracy. Don't believe me? Try it.

Prone with a bipod or on a good rest, under field conditions (hillside, irregular ground, vegetation, wind, maybe rain), you should be able to get the same ~6" spread and most of them in 4" at 300 yards.

If your rifle's inherent accuracy is only 2 MOA then you have to be a good shooter to get the desired results above. If your rifle can do 1/2 MOA then you just won't have to work as hard.

When hunting, unless in a stand or blind, you take the best shot you get. Leaning on a tree, sitting against a rock, or laying over a log you won't get the same shot-to-shot consistency you will when seated at a shooting bench on the range. You can shoot a fourteen pound varmint rifle off the bench and get 1/4 MOA grouping on the range but that fourteen pound rifle is a real challenge to use for a quick offhand shot with one foot on a rock and the other in a mud hole. In those conditions you would probably shoot better with a seven pound lightweight even if it can only do 2" groups from a sandbag on the range.

It depends on what the rifle is for.
2 moa might be acceptable for highseats in forestry with limited distance and lungshots, but totally inadequate on the hill.
I like to have the most accuracy I can get, so I can take head/neck shots if required or longer shots.
If one of my serious hunting rifles started shooting really bad, I'd be doing some investigating before I would write it off.

My "light" stalking rifle (Kimber Montana in 308 Win) for roe, (and the AR-trips to UK for munties,roe,fallows and the like ) is a honest 3/4 to 1" rifle with a rest at 100 meters.
For such smallish critters I consider 1" at 100 meters a maximum spread.

My big game rifles (35 Whelen and 375 Ruger) are also able to put 3 shots into 1 " at 100 metres.
But I´ll be honest enough to admit that the added recoil tend to open the groups a wee bit.
But they usually stays well under 2"

My big game (red and moose) are seldom shot past 150 meters
More likely within 100 meters.

I also belive it depends a lot on what kind of stalking one do.
If high seats are the norm and the game are taken within say 80 meters, one can accept a bit more spread as brass thief poins out.

But when nailing reds on the hill, rein deer in the mountains or roe on wide open fields or big clear cuts, one has to have a rifle as accurate as possible.
Shooting a accurate rifle also gives added confidence and satisfaction in my opinion.

For me, 1.5" max for most UK deer stalking.

Of course if the hunter can't shoot his .3" rifle for shit...does that make it equivalent to a 4" rifle? Or is it better to consistently shoot 1.25-1.5" groups out to 150m where most deer are killed in real life...

The best test would be to do a group that consists of single shots from a cold barrel and from a variety of field positions. It would at least show if there was any consistency from real world positions.

For me a rifle has to be capable of consistantly shooting .7 moa or less from prone with a bipod and bag.

I do a lot of culling work and larger groups than this are not acceptable.

quote:

Originally posted by griff:
At what point in the accuracy stages would you bin a rifle?

I think I would be considering re-barreling first before binning if the action, stock etc really worked for me.
Generally, I assume faults in myself or my reloading before I would even think of blaming the rifle.

I suppose it depends on what I paid for it.

If it was an old Brno or whatever costing a few hundred, I would be happy with anything around an inch.

However, with a top quality factory rifle such as a Blaser, or a custom build, it better do 0.5 MOA at least.

To answer the question directly, if this was a known good rifle that was "shot-out", I would be binning or rebarreling once it would no longer shoot MOA.

I realise MOA is not needed for a lot of UK stalking, but it is needed by me for confidence in a rifle.

My accuracy minimal is for 3 shot in 4 cm at 100 meter!

I have some steps to this thought process.

Is it the gun?
Glass bed, adjust trigger, and make sure barrel is not doing anything wierd in the channel.

Is it the ammo?
Right bullet for the land/groove twist?

Is it the mount or scope?
Too tight, loose, broken, not in allignment?
I usually try a 2nd or 3rd scope before I blame the gun.

When I have exhausted all of these I start looking for something to trade for.

3 shots in an inch at 100 yards is acceptable for 80% of the rifles I shoot. Big bore lever actions get 3 shots in two inches at 100. Very properly made varmint/heavy barreled guys should be expected to shoot .5 inch at 100 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by Claret_Dabbler:

I realise MOA is not needed for a lot of UK stalking, but it is needed by me for confidence in a rifle.

The above about sums it up for me. Being both self critical and observing those I shoot with I think confidence is the main component in consistent shooting.

For me an off the shelf rifle needs to shoot a max 1" group at 100m off of a bench. If it can do that then when I give it to someone in field conditions I know that the only variable I have to manage is the guest.

A custom rifle must shoot sub .5MOA and my 260 will shoot a true quarter inch group at 100m (in the right hands ). The result of that is that I have a different level of confidence in that rifle than I do in the others in my cabinet.

Rgds,
K

I have a 25-06 with a heavy barrel that is that way. .25 kind of gun. Funny how particular you are about your other guns when you have something like that.

Depends on the gun. For my woodland stalker i think 1moa. Shots are rarely beyond 200-250yds with it so secure that the beast won't suffer.

Longer range rifle is another case entirely. Thankfully it hasn't opened up at all yet.

I still cringe when i see people struggling to achieve a group within 4 inches at 100yds before stalking. That's 8inches at 200yds!

I agree with most,good accuracy breeds confidence, I do cringe however at those that accept a lesser degree of accuracy.
As Scotsgun said a 4" group at 100 soon turns into an unacceptable group at 200yds.
For me sub moa is always desirable, not just for long range,but as a confidence booster.
Should accuracy start to fall off, the 3 questions I ask: is it me? is it the gun? is it the ammo?
Upto press it s not been me!


regards
griff

I zero my rifle off my roe bag i have no bipod i get it with in 2 ich this is fine for me most of my shots are off sticks and that requires a differnt type of skill than off a shooting rest bipod clamp or what ever. Now most of my shots are within a hundreds meters and i feel i do fine .Now i had a chap out for a roe buck last season who came up with what can only be discribed as a peach of a rifle. This gun was in a Mac Millan Stock had a barrel as thick as a moderator trigger unit as dear as my rifle and all in all a nice gun .The chap stalked with me and got to within 150 meters of a nice buck and proceeded to half the pour beast in two. The guts and Grass bag were all over the place. This chap shot competition and was i am told very good. It gose to show some times you got to have a tool for the job.

About an inch is nice, two the upper limit.

If one's shooting was more specialised than mine a different standard might be more appropriate.

I do agree that 4" off a rest is a bit archaic, at best.

quote:

Originally posted by griff:
At what point in the accuracy stages would you bin a rifle?
I have seen several threads that seem to accept 2"@ 100yds, that to me would send that rifle to the smelting pot.
What is acceptable to You?

regards
griff

1.5"-2" off sticks or free hand is perfectly acceptable IMO.

The chest shot kill zone for muntjac is 3.5". So 2" is well within bounds. As the deer get bigger so does the kill zone.

I read some where that the Nth American bison was nearly wiped out by hunters with rifles that shot 4"MOA.

Deer aren't paper targets. They couldn't careless that your rifle shoots into the 3's off a bench on the range.

The only deer I've seen on the range are the BDS roe targets.

Acceptable MOA depends lot depends on whether you're a stalker or a shooter of rifles.

Griff,

I reckon 0.75 MOA is the max. I'd be disapointed with anything else. Luckily enough I can get in the 0.6s with my rifles consistently although that remains to be seen with my latest 270 purchase.

Kind regards,

Tim