Because most of my friiends on AR are in the South American forum I have posted the pictures there.

Great pictures Bill! Thanks for posting.

For those of you who have not enjoyed Bill's snapshots, here is a link to the post...
https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/994107165/m/532108849

There are a few points in your description of the hunt which surprise me. If you don't mind, perhaps we might able to get input from our "Scottish experts", on whether this is standard practice in Scotland...

quote:

Originally posted by billinthewild:
When I bought the hunt I thought it was for a free range stag. Well, I guess one could still call it that, because the estate I hunted on was very large, some 3,000 acres. But the chances of not getting a stag were next to none. There were many red deer on the estate as well as fallow, sika, roe, european elk, Soay sheep, Russian hogs and one lone Pere David bull. (That should not be shot) I enjoyed the hunt but in entering mine in SCI I did enter them as "estate."

By the sounds of it, you have booked on an estate in the Lowlands. Generally, Highland estates tend tend to run larger, and I don't believe 3000 acres would be considered a large estate in the Highlands.

What surprises me more, was the presence of

quote:

european elk, Soay sheep, Russian hogs and one lone Pere David bull

I know the UK has fenced "game parks" (which this makes it sound like), but mostly Scottish hunting is associated with wide open terrain (often heather covered hills), no fences and no "exotics" like hogs. It is not uncommon for Scottish estates to have populations of Sika or Roe, say, but by the sounds of it you landed in a game park, and not on a classic Scottish estate. (Our Scottish experts will correct me if I'm wrong here...).

quote:

I also learned about European hunting...unless you have an unlimited budget, before you pull the trigger best to ask your guide how many dollars/pounds/Euros, etc., that critter will cost.

Your stag was a very nice one, but he does not immediately convey an image of a Scottish (Highland) stag to me. And the fact you (apparently?) had to pay a trophy fee based on size also indicates to me that you landed in a game park operation. I believe the common way Scottish hunting is sold theses days, is for you to buy a number of days of stalking (so many outings per day), and included in the price is typically a fixed number of stags. In contrast to Continental Europe, it is rare that Scottish hunting is associated with (size dependent) trophy fees. On the other hand, you normally have to shoot the beast the stalker wants shot, and that may not match your idea of the best trophy (selection based on age, genetics etc).

I'm happy you enjoyed your stay, and it was nice of you to share it with us. I'm also wondering where you booked your hunt, and whether you (and future potential visiting hunters) might be better off trying to locate a hunt on a classic Scottish estate?? I have a feeling more than a few aspects of the hunt would have been different under those circumstances.

Please note, I'm not trying indicate that this was not a good hunt, I'm just surprised at some of the aspects associated with your hunt, aspects I would not have expected on a Scottish trip.

- mike

Very nice trophies!

Well done, looks like you enjoyed yourself immensly!

Regards,

Amir

Congratulations on an enjoyable hunt and trophies to remember!

Looking at your photos, I would hazard a guess that you hunted to the South of Glasgow - probably in the Dumfries & Galloway area at Carminnows estate.

The operation there consists of both a fenced deer farm with exotics,as well as free range shooting outside of the park boundaries. If mobility is/was an issue - I suspect you would not have enjoyed the open hill style of stalking.

Frankly, the fitness requirements scare me as a soft lowland stalker!!

Rgds Ian

I have a question not related to the hunting per se, on the side of the inn house, there is a sign,

"non residents welcome" are there places where we would not be welcome is my question!

Best regards Chris

Chris

It depends if you are from Schweeeden!

Some hotels do not offer facilities (resturant / bar) to non residents. Commonly, smaller sites will look to make money however they may.

Rgds Ian

IanF- hahahahah I could be from Schweeeeedenn or Sverige too for that matter,

however, I now know how things go together,

at my first stay on your lovely island at the tender age of 15, I was amased by the amount of places for women to give birth in, all those nurseries...

Yeah well you all can laugh a bit now, do remenber that I am both blond and blue eyed and a Swede...

/best regards Chris

The Pere David was the give away for the location. He was on the front lawn when we stopped off for a look a couple of weeks ago.

The European boar run plentiful and large on this estate. So too do the fallow, elk, sika reds............

anyone else ever shot there??

quote:

Your stag was a very nice one, but he does not immediately convey an image of a Scottish (Highland) stag to me. And the fact you (apparently?) had to pay a trophy fee based on size also indicates to me that you landed in a game park operation. I believe the common way Scottish hunting is sold theses days, is for you to buy a number of days of stalking (so many outings per day), and included in the price is typically a fixed number of stags. In contrast to Continental Europe, it is rare that Scottish hunting is associated with (size dependent) trophy fees. On the other hand, you normally have to shoot the beast the stalker wants shot, and that may not match your idea of the best trophy (selection based on age, genetics etc).

I'm happy you enjoyed your stay, and it was nice of you to share it with us. I'm also wondering where you booked your hunt, and whether you (and future potential visiting hunters) might be better off trying to locate a hunt on a classic Scottish estate?? I have a feeling more than a few aspects of the hunt would have been different under those circumstances.

Please note, I'm not trying indicate that this was not a good hunt, I'm just surprised at some of the aspects associated with your hunt, aspects I would not have expected on a Scottish trip.

- mike

I agree, this is not a typical wild Scottish head, the split trez tines and multi-pointed tops are not at all typical of a wild stag.

There are now free ranging wild boar in some parts of the UK as well as quite a few behind the fences of large estates and farms. Although there are a few in Scotland, most of the free ranging boar are in the Southern half of England and the only hunted populations are in the Forest of Dean, East Sussex/Kent borders and Dorset.

I guess one could still call it that, because the estate I hunted on was very large, some 3,000 acres. But the chances of not getting a stag were next to none.
Stalking through the hills; wihtout my "Moses" stick it would be tough for me.


I hate this type of "canned hunting" 3,000acers of fenced in isent big by any means, those hills are easy stalking/walking and your stag is non typical for a "Scottish hill stag" sorry to say this but your stag is a fat park stag not a hill stag. Here is a good'ish hill stag and some easy to stalk,real hill.

I'm not arguing with the point you make James but we must also consider that if Bill enjoyed his hunt then it was a success for him. It might not suit you for perhaps just the reasons that it did suit Bill. Some people, for example, are unwell or unfit and so can't walk 8 hours on the hill followed by a 4 hour drag of a stag in the day or perhaps others don't have much time and are fitting in a few hours hunting around a family holiday or a business trip. All these factors must be taken into consideration when you pick some stalking.

With that in mind I think we have to promote and enjoy the variety and diversity of stalking, and indeed shooting of all types, that are available to us as that is what makes the world an interesting place. I think it is also the case that by trying something it then encourages people to develop their interest. In the thread that Bill posted he made it clear that he knew that it wasn't, as he said himself, "a true Scottish hill stalk" but he seems keen to get back to try again perhaps even on more challenging ground. So, it looks to me like we have a convert to Scottish salking. That is one more person to help us fight the green nutters who want us all to sit in mud huts and eat grass, it is one more person to regale with tales of our stalking, it is one more person who has experienced the enjoyment that can be had on the hill and, hopefully, in the near future Bill will be back and heading onto the wilder and more remote hillsides in other areas.

Based on this and the fact that Bill had a good time I think his hunt has to go down as a success not just for Bill but for all of us. Equally your stag and the ground you took him from look great and if you enjoyed the day out then that too is a success for yourself and for everyone who stalks.

I have a feeling I might have had something to do with starting this discussion, and I must say, I'm not sure I'm all that proud about that exploit.

Not only does Bill come across as the perfect gentleman and a very nice guy to boot. He also seemed genuinely happy about his hunt - although he did mention a few minor drawbacks to his experience (e.g high trophy fees).

It was these "negatives" that made me think Bill might have landed up in a game park, and I explored that idea - which to some extent seems to have been confirmed by subsequent posters. When I chose to enter (or open?) that discussion, I in no way intended to belittle Bill's experience. In fact, in many ways the conditions of the estate he ended up on may well have suited him better than a traditional Highland venue.

On the other hand, from this discussion and others (e.g. over on the Aussie/NZ forum), it is obvious that foreign hunters run the risk of getting booked into hunting, which local people, even if they looked for guided stalking, might have avoided. Getting in touch with local hunters to find good stalking is one of the huge advantages of sites like AR. At the back of my mind was probably the hope that potential foreign guests would make use of this excellent resource - perhaps to verify the results of shopping with the local (foreign) hunting consultants.

- mike

quote:

I in no way intended to belittle Bill's experience. In fact, in many ways the conditions of the estate he ended up on may well have suited him better than a traditional Highland venue.

Nor do I, though haveing read my own post it maby comes across as if I do. I hope Bill did enjoy his hunt, what I ment to convey was I in someways feel he was short changed and over charged!??! On the other hand as you point out, Bill's age/fitness could have hindered his enjoyment further had he had a realy physical stalk over more chalanging terain.

Thanks for all those that share their exploits with us. It's nice to see that someone gets out and gets their beast.

good photo's

quote:

Originally posted by James Johnston:

quote:

I in no way intended to belittle Bill's experience. In fact, in many ways the conditions of the estate he ended up on may well have suited him better than a traditional Highland venue.

what I ment to convey was I in someways feel he was short changed and over charged!??!

who are you to judge what he was charged ??? sounds to me he has a good time and was happy with what he got and was charged and thats all that matters and not "what you feel"

"I also learned about European hunting...unless you have an unlimited budget, before you pull the trigger best to ask your guide how many dollars/pounds/Euros, etc., that critter will cost."

Bill's words not mine.......I was agreeing with him.