My employer think that I need a combination gun to have with me on work.

It will be for all kind of game from ducks, foxes to wild boar and Moose.

I think I would like a 12 ga with 9,3x74R - what do you think?

Which makes are there on the marked right now with moderate costs?

Regards

Mads

I got a 30-06 12 gage..that fits all..moose i do'nt know.

Olaf

12/70 + 9.3X74R would be fine. Maybe a little heavy once scoped?
And I am not sure this combination is very common in standard affordable products, I think it's easier to find a 20/76 + 9.3, or 12/70 + 7X65R or 8X57 JRS. I would go for the 12/70 + 7X65R combination.

Hi Mads
what do think about a "drilling" ( triplet)?
Or is it not legal in DK?
There used in good condition on the market between 1500 and 3500 euro.

Olaf

I have been looking for a combi for some time. I'm looking for one in 12/70 7x57R.

The ones I have found is:

Antion Zoli Swedese/Schou
Bruno 500
Lincon Lux
Finn Classic 512SC
Sabbati
I think only the Finn comes in 9.3x74R of this ones.
All this are from about 1700 Euro to 1100 Euro here in Norway. (I want doble triggers, good safety and a "shotgunstock" on mine)
I was planing to use it on all game from moose down to small birds.

Johan

[ 08-08-2002, 13:42: Message edited by: 308winchester ]

I am with KB.
bye

Of course you should buy a drilling in calibre 20-7x57R. It�s a far better alternative than a 12 ga one. Take in consideration that you would be carry it for long periods, and a 20 ga is a far better alternative than the 12 ga.

JB

Janne B welcome to the forum!

If you go for a U/O combi the 12gauge will be fine I think, it's also easier to find cheap practits ammo and all sorts of shot, I personly prefer 12gauge. If you get a drilling I would look long and hard on a 20, to keep the weight down. A O/U 20 gauge with a 9.3x74R would might be a bit to light? Or what?

A O/U is more of a poor manns drilling. I'll probably start of with one.

Johan

Thanks some good advices to take into account.

I think I'll see what they can deliever in Latvia and buy the gun that I like the most at hand.

Olaf, Drillings is OK aswell but I was more thinking of a Bochb�chsflinte to keep the weight down.

Regards

Mads

I would go with a good o�le 7x57 Mauser and a 12 gauge... what you can�t kill with a 7 in Latvia isn�t in the books and a twelve gauge will do the job on the rest. I hear Blaser makes a fine lightweight combo in 20-9,3x74...

Sounds like a mighty fine gun to me!!! A tad on the light side if you are to shoot many rounds of 9,3x74 though....

I think the price for the cheapes blaser combi are around 16000NOK here in Norway.

Johan

I'll look it up when I get home from work and post the correct prices. Remeber 16000NOK is for the simples, cheapes O/U combi from Blaser.
16000NOK is about 2133Euro.

Johan

Having done a few misstakes when buying combination guns I think you have to shop around a bit before you decide which one to buy. You have to be clear on what you intend to use it for!
There are O/U guns that weigh as much or more than some drillings and vice versa.
There are different systems to consider too. Do you want interchangable barrels, non soldered barrels, double/single trigger, rifle barrel on top or below, scope mounting systems,interchangable choke, conventional safety or a safety system etc.......
Over the years I've used :
Heym 22s 20/222Rem
Brno 300 12/7x57R
Brno 500 12/7x57R
Merkel 32S 12/12/7x57R
Sauer BBF 97 Luxus 12/7x57R
and right now a JP S&S in 16/16/7x65R
They all have their short comings and of course advantages.
These are some of my thoughts on what to think about when shoping for the perfect combination gun:
*Weight - a really heavy gun tends to stay at home if you walk a lot while hunting. A light gun is plesant to carry but might be a pain to fire
*Balance - heavy barrels or light barrels - good balance is mandatory!!! An unbalanced gun works really well if all shots are taken from a steady support but will cheat you if you take a hasty shot at something - at least this is true for me!
*Apperance - the ugliest gun might very well be the one that fits you best, has the best balance etc..... If possible I want both good looks and handling qualities, othervise I'll go with the ugly one if it fits!
*Costs - If you intend to buy a tool and not a piece to brag about there is no need to pay a fortune - some of the cheaper ones work really good!
*Stocking - Some of these guns have been designed with very strange stocks. Alot of drop and croked designs. Many are to low to be really good.
*Triggers - Set trigger or not? Many of these guns need one as the trigger pull without it is very heavy and not good at all. Others have very veery good triggers!!! Do you want the rifle barrel on the front trigger or the back trigger?
*Scope mounting - Do you intend to have a scope? If you do, do you intend to remove it from the gun and reattache it with out disturbing point of inpact? Some of these mounts are really expensive if you want a detachable one!
*Rimmed/Non rimmed cartridge - If you intend to hunt during really cold conditions be sure to buy a gun chambered for a rimmed cartridge - It will spare you a lot of trouble!!!
There is a lot to think about if you intend to really use the gun! I use mine about 75% of the hunting season and consider it my most important part of my 6-gun battery!!
Cheers
K9 (Who could go on for qite a while on the subject if didn't have to run to catch the train..... )

The Blaser 95 is from 16 160 NOK to 139 250 NOK that is 2163 Euro to 18 636 Euro.

I would go for the 18 636 Euro gun And the worst is that it is ugly too!

Johan

Have a look at

CZ500 series is not BRNO, it is from CZUB

CZ584 - 12/7x65R,12/7x57R,12/.30-06
price is about 25 700Kc - 830Euro
+12/12 barrels - 40200 Kc - 1300Euro

Brnos: ZH 300 series :12/7x65R, 12/8x57JRS etc.

You can always look for a drilling in some odd calibre like 16-8X57 or so. That would let the price down quite a bit. The balance and weight for a 20 gauge and a 16 gauge are more or less the same. But if you are looking for a calibre in the region of 93x74, you have to have such a heavy one too survive shoot with it. The 9.3 x 74 calibre is for dubbles and not for kombis. If you go for an over and under you might have a 12 gauge, but to what purpose? A second hand 20 gauge is much cheaper than a 12 gauge one. No wild animal can feel the different from a 12 gauge and a 20 gauge!

Br
JB

In case anyone is interested, I have an H. Pieper hammer Cape Gun in 9.3x74R and 12-gauge for sale. Weighs about 9 pounds, as I recall. Send me a private message if you'd like more info.

Take a closer look at the Sabbati. I'm leaning towards it myself. There are several models.

Johan

Hmm

If I mostly would hunt roe deer, wildboar and red deer then a double rifle drilling �n 9,3X74r or 7X65r with a 12 or 20 gauge shootgun barrel. If I would hunt more feather game and foxes rabbits a drilling would be my choice.

You can find nice well made Merkels, Sauer & sohn, Wolf, Sodia etc used for a good price. Better to buy a used quality weapon than new with less quality

Ideal would be one rifle and a shoot gun. Down side is thats it's bulky and not very practical to carry all day

/ JOHAN

Hi guys,

Isn't anyone interested in russian combination guns which give quite a good value for your money? Here in Finland they are sold under the name Baikal Taiga (and Sever), elsewhere they are called IZH or something like that.

Mine is an O/U Taiga in 12/76*7x57R and I've got nothing to complain about it so far. I haven't yet used it on anything else than beaver, but I'm intending to make it my primary bird gun and sometimes even take it on a moose hunt. The rifle barrel shoots S&B soft points in 38mm/3 shots at 100 meters with open sights and 5 shots in less than 40 mm with a scope. The shotgun barrell is quite OK also, mine having an IM choke.

I've had nothing but good experiences about russian guns (except one AK-47 which was pointed at me) even though they are very often treated with disrespect. Baikal Taiga costs about 550-600 Euros in Finland and in my opinion they're worth every cent.

I wouldn't recommend Tikka 512-series combination guns, since their quality is not worth the name. The older Valmet 412-series is better. When buying a 512 you have a slight chance to get a decent gun, because sometimes such things appear, but in most cases their quality is poor. For the same reason I wouldn't recommed Sabatti either.

German and Austrian made combination guns are really of good quality, but if you are short in money and don't mind about the looks of the gun too much, I'd suggest you buy a Baikal (IZH) combination gun. Having said this, I must admit that the metal parts of my Taiga are very well finished for a gun of its price.

Just my opinions...

Caliber should be included in the thought process too. If availability and versatility is primary nothing beats a 12 bore! If you want lighter weight or a more graceful gun (sometimes with better balance) a 20 or 16 is the way to go.
Rifle barrel should in my opinion be chosen for the intended use (with a thought about avalability)! Sensible choices when including bigger game like moose starts IMHO at 7mm. A properly loaded 7mm (7x57R, 7X65R - with a heavy for caliber bullet) will during most circumstances kill reliably! A bigger diameter bullet might be useful but limits other uses (birds etc - again my opinion) and also choices of guns.
Most combination guns ar available in 7x57R, which is a great round, and also in 7x65R. A few in 8x57R and even fewer in 9,3x74R. A caliber like 30 Blaser is probably great but where do you find the ammo when you are in a hurry??
Like LD100 I would not buy a Sabatti as I've heard of a lot of failures (and seen a few too). The Baikal seem to be a good gun for the money - although rough and of unorthodox construction. I have no experience with it but have not heard much bad things about it.
The ZH 300 and better yet the 500 are real working guns and yes they are somewhat rough too but they work!! The 500 I had and those that friends own shoot graet and have an acceptable balance!
If I had to make a choice of one of the cheaper combination guns a ZH 500 in 12/7x57R would be my choice and we would probably live happily ever after.........
K9

I would go with a drilling that has two 16ga shotgun barrels and a 7x57mm rifle barrel.

Do you reload?

BTW, Fox should be trapped so as not to damage the valuable pelts.

http://www.murrayslures.com/
http://fur-harvester-network.hypermart.net/
http://www.tracker-outdoors.com/trapping.htm
http://www.peterpalms.com/catalog/fur/riseinprices.html
http://www.nafa.ca/
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Trails/5950/

Slingster: How does the extractor of your IZH:s .308 barrel work, is it reliable? As you probably know, many break-open guns don't like cartridges without rims.

I happenend to recall some more details about Taiga/IZH-combos:

There are at least two different designs of them, the other having low open sights and the barrels having no open space between them. The other model has higher open sights (which IMHO are much worse) and the barrels being attached to each other only from their mouths and the monoblock.
Both models have two triggers (at least all those I've seen) and a 11mm scope mount. The trigger tends to be a bit on the heavy side, but I find it quite manageable if you use some kind of support(is that the correct term?).

The "Taiga" models have shotgun barrel over and rifle barrel under, which in my opinion is the wrong order.

The "Sever"-model which is a really light combo only available in 20/.22 WMR or .22LR has the barrels vice versa, which is better.

Owning a Ferlacher in 16/65 over 7x57R and seeing lots of combo guns I might add some thoughts:

The Drilling is a German invention. Much to cumbersome. Typically German: "die Eierlegende Wollmichsau". ( The Germans are accused of trying to invent a egg laying, wool giving, milk spending, easy to raise and sell animal ).

The real intriguing combo gun is a "Bockb�chsflinte", a shotgun over rifle combo. Of course, its an Austrian invention ;-)

For all game in Europe: 12/70 over .30 R Blaser. Exotic, but elite: 8x75RS. Most probable most useful: 6.5x55. ONLY for real pro�s and experts: .243. Standard: 7x65R.

For ease of handling and beauty the shotgun should be 20/76, for a classic 16/70.

DON`T BUY Blaser! Ferlach, Krieghoff ( free barrels ) , Merkel, Heym. Cheaper: Brno or Antonio Zoli.

Just my 2 ct, Hermann

Hi Mads

Get your self a tikka 512 Preferably a Valmet 412 stainless they are not expensive and very, very good guns. It Shoots up with a Blazer anytime.
Brno is another alt. in the cheap but good end.

aHunter,
What�s wrong with Blaser combos? Don�t have one and don�t want one, just curious!?
I use a Merkel drilling for most of my hunting. I have also used Merkel�s Super Light combo in 20/ 9.3x74, but got rid of it.// J.G

Niels
How dare you suggesting getting a kombi in stainless It's the same thing as getting a english sbs with synthetic stock and stainless. Some things just don't match

Kombi or Drilling? I guess I ha<ve to go with the Germans this time Kombi is a bad compromise. Favorite would be a drilling in 12X70, 9,3X74R with a extra barrel in 22 hornet.

/ JOHAN

For my money: what I shoot in a combination gun:

Merkel 20 gauge over a 6.5X52R, made in 1940. just before the loss of wartime skills to military materials. This is in what we americans call a 25-35 rimmed. nice squirrel and rabbit gun. too light for large game, but fun and light to plink with!!

If I were to spec one out now, it would be a 7X65R under a 16 or 20 gauge barrel.

Made by Merkel of course!!

Hi people,
even if I always desired to have a drilling, even if I'm friend of Ing.Sabatti, owner of Sabatti company and even if I know Antonio Zoli, owner of Zoli company, I have to put this question: Why do you need a combination gun? Non � n� carne n� pesce (it is not meat nor fish as we say in Italy)

I know Murphy's laws, and probably when you are hunting little game a wonderful occasion of shooting a big game appears or viceversa and a combination gun is done for this, but do you really believe that you need it? I don't. I have two or three fiends that have only combination gun, well none of them has used them as above described.
I'm waiting feedback.
bye

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Steve Malinverni:
[QB]Hi people,
even if I always desired to have a drilling, even if I'm friend of Ing.Sabatti, owner of Sabatti company and even if I know Antonio Zoli, owner of Zoli company, I have to put this question: Why do you need a combination gun? Non � n� carne n� pesce (it is not meat nor fish as we say in Italy)

well steve, i only can answer for my self:
1. we hunt from high seats the most time in germany.

2. If you have a look on the hunting season we can almost hunt around the year, so there is a lot of feasabilties if you sit 3 or more hours

so.. for me a drilling gives me for ervry possible game the right projectile.. from shot over 5,6 or .22 hornet to 30-06 or bigger.

Olaf

Sorry, I was away some time ...

I still am a fan of an O/U combo. If hunting from a stand, the shotgun barrel is often used with an insert barrel, .22 Mag or .22 Hornet being the most popular. For driven hunts the shotgun barrel is stuffed with shot ( hares, Fox ), slugs ( pure pig hunt ) or buckshot for dense woods.

I have to confess that most of the time I go with Steve: Win 70 Classic Supergrade �06 ( just shot a pig ) or CZ 550 9.3x62 ( scope slid, screws tightened, now one screw torn off, back to gunsmith ... )

Waidmannsheil! Hermann

I wish I could say I had a lot of hunting experience with a drilling. My wife has a Saur 12x12x30-06 with a Kahles 4x in claw mounts, but she never lets me use it. I have "snuck" it out of the house and shot ducks and doves,and squirrels. It is lighter than my Browning Citori, and handles just as good or better. She has taken Whitetail deer, wild pigs, even one with a slug, turkeys, ducks dove and quail. It is her favorite hunting gun. I would very much like to have a 12x12x9.3x74R. I have a 9.3 double and I really like the calibre. A 20 would be lighter but I want to be able to use the same shotgun shells as my other guns. I had a combo gun once a Tikka 222 under a 12 gauge. It shot great but the rifle bbl was to small for deer and up. I like a drilling best, you have a perfectly good double bbl shotgun, and a perfectly good single shot rifle, what could be better. PS I would definately have a scope in a claw mount, probably something in the 2.5 to 7 or 8 range. A fairly small scope to keep weight down and not effect handling.

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quote:
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Originally posted by LD100:
Hi guys,

Isn't anyone interested in russian combination guns which give quite a good value for your money? Here in Finland they are sold under the name Baikal Taiga (and Sever), elsewhere they are called IZH or something like that.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I will second the recommendation that people consider the new Baikal combo guns as rugged, practical field guns. I have one (imported in the U.S. by EAA as Model IZH-94, I believe) in 12-ga/.308 that shoots the rifle barrel to the high-visibility pistol-style sights, and once you get used to looking past the sights and pointing the barrel, is easy to hit aerial targets with. They're on the heavy side and won't win any beauty contests, but they lock up tight and seem to perform well. A really good value, in my opinion.

I will add a third opinion that the Baikal combo guns are good value for the money. I obtained a 12ga over 7x57R, for $280, and it seems to be reasonably well made and rugged. I like rimmed cartridges for a break open gun. The only negative that I have noticed, is that the rifle barrel will start stringing the shots vertically if more than three are fired rapidly. As this is seldom the case in hunting, I do not think it is much of a handicap. Also, does anyone know where to obtain scope rings for the 11mm rail?