I have just been informed that the BDS is objecting to the legislation which is being considered in England, which will come into line with Scotalnd regarding the taking of deer with a 22 center fire,has anyone heard why the BDS are objecting.

many thanks

Griff

I suspect it's because the BDS supremo's believe what they hear from their Forest Enterprise stalker friends, which is that all hobby Stalkers can't shoot and also that 270 is the only worthwhile calibre.

Personally I'm happy with my 243 shooting everything from 55gn Blitz Kings to 95gn Ballistic Tips into .25MOA through a T8 moderatorand sounding like a 22lr high velocity.

Ask a dead deer what it was shot with?

Rob

Guys.

My impression is that their response is in reply to the question 'How will this improve Deer welfare?'This being the principle plank behind the founding of the BDS.

I am given to understand that BASC are also having problems backing this proposal - for the same reason.

Irrespective of my opinion in the matter (have had a .223 Rem Seven carbine anticipating this potential for the last three years} it is difficult to come up with an answer that shows a clear benefit to the Deer.

On the contrary, less energy, greater varieties of unsuitable bullets, and the spectre of 'Capreocidal' lampers with foxing rigs are apparently considerations against the proposal.

Your thoughts on this are welcome - I know what I would prefer!

Rgds Ian

Ian,

Over here in the colonies we speak a different language. Wotinell are "'Capreocidal' lampers with foxing rigs"?

Nomad



- sorry bud, left out the smiley next to that one! Roe Deer (Capreolus Capreolus) + Homicidal.....putting the two together let me make up a new word for those wot like to shoot this species of Deer.......'Capreocidal'



Over this side of the pond, shooting Red Foxes at night with a spotlamp is a recognised and necessary control measure.



Rgds Ian

Nomad

- sorry bud, left out the smiley next to that one! Roe Deer (Capreolus Capreolus) + Homicidal.....putting the two together let me make up a new word for those wot like to shoot this species of Deer.......'Capreocidal'

Rgds Ian

To think that I had a grandmother named Montgomery and I don't even understand the language...
Mny thx

hi everyone im new to this forum but in ireland we shoot from 22.250 to 270 on all deer sika ,fallow,red,and hybrids,i have shot sika ,fallow and hybrids, with that calibre and have 270 .as well we are not allowed some of the other calibres all we are allowed is 22.250 243,6.5x55 25.06 ,264,270,plus we are not allowed to reload ?? by law its a gray area . i have a lot of experience in shooting the 22.250 and find it a great round from deer to varmints would like to here from other stalkers also looking for some good loads for my 270 winchester

Ian,

Ic suspect you are correct on the deer welfare perspective, however I am not sure the that legalisation of .22CF for day time use would automatically mean an increase in its use for poaching at night.

I would guess that anybody who is going to poach deer at night under a lamp will do so regardless of the other laws and those same people are probably already doing it...

Regards,

Pete

Here in wild and wonderful West Virginia, the night poachers use .22LR's and .22magnums to reduce noise. But then, noise might not be a problem with you folks as you can use "moderators" aka silencers. Here in the colonies, the scofflaws are going to do pretty much what they want while laws like you are discussing only hassle the honest people.

IMHO a lot of the 'powers that be' are shit scared of gamekeepers and foxers being given greater scope to shoot deer. A lot of people stalk or rent stalking on game shoots. At present a keeper with a 222 or 22-250 either doesn't shoot deer or does so illegaly and keeps it quiet.

I think these same people think that should 22cf become legal then it will be that much easier for gamekeepers to do it themselves legally.

Personaly allthough I would love to be able to use my 5.6x50r for English roe deer and muntjac, I think the disadvantages outway the benefits.

There is one argument that could swing it and that is safety BUT the powers that be have hoisted their colours to the 'a safe shot is a safe shot' mast, any dilution of which would have dire consequences for those who want a 308 for muntjac and roe.

Foxes are in the main shot at night from a vehicle. Is it desirable for deer to be controlled in a similar fashion?
Seasonal daytime deer control and shoot management are somewhat in conflict over gamekeepers' time.
Keep English calibre law as at present and lengthen doe season until mid April would be my recommendation!

I find it strange to see hunters advocate against legalizing these excellent roe killers. There are great bullets available today that gives excellent and reliable result on roe deer.

/HerrBerg

Hey,

Although these lighter calibers are effective in the right hands, I do think they provide less margin for error. Being more succeptable to windage, wilth less penetration than a slower heavier bullet. What I mean is that there is more that can go wrong, which doesn't necessarily mean it will... Ultimately we all have a favourite rifle, which we are confident using, and the confidence counts for a lot.

As for the seasons, If deer numbers need to be reduced, (AND THAT IS A BIG IF...IMO), then as trans says, the doe season being extended may help but also, bucks should be shot all year round. Roe are less polygamous than Red or Fallow, so in turn reducing males is a usefull tool in number control. Personally I'm loathe to shoot anything heavily pregnant, or with chicks in the nest, from pigeon to deer.

As for the lampers, one more law to break won't change a thing.

FB

FB - that encapsulatees my personal point of view! one more law to break - if someone is gonna act illegally - they are going ahead to do it irrespective.

Rgds Ian

Plato always said that good people don't need laws to tell them how to act, bad people will always find a way around the law.
A deer hit in the lower chest with a .233 WILL die believe it or not, and the animals aren't that much weaker in Scotland where this has been done for a while now I believe.
In the end, a rule that gives more freedom to hunters and gives more choice in picking a stalking rifle is good. Those who don't wish to use such a caliber (i.e. majority who already have all the rifles they will ever need) needn't use it.
Poaching is most effective with a nice, moderated .22 and NOT with supersonic crack of a .22-250

Can any of you comment on whether the velocities of the 22-250 ruin as much meat as a 270?