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Dear Fellows! I want the "perfect" chambering for a lot of hunting! It should be legal in ALL countries, whether I really want hunt there or not. It should be extremely flat shooting for open countries, for Chamois or Sheep in Mountains World wide. It should NOT have recoil levels I need a Dentist after shooting, or don´t want to touch off the next shot. Game should be up to and including Red Stag, eventually Elk, Sheep, Chamaois, Ibex, Sibirian Roe deer. NOT Bears or dangerous game. I would prefer a single shot rifle for lenght of barrel and weight issues. I am thinking along the lines of: the 6.5x65(R) RWS - is it hard to reload? Do I have to buy the original cases ( not so big a problem, but a price issue ), or might I safely use a commonly available parent brass case? the 7 mm Rem: ist it dead in the future, left in the shadows by the .270 WSM? Is the Belt so much hassle to reload for a SS!! rifle and so much less accurate, that I should skip that caliber? 270 Winnie in SS? Extraction? 270 WSM? Extraction and no secondhand gun, as too new. 7x65R: too simple. 6.5x57R and 6.5x55 and lesser calibers deducted because of game issues, .30 Blaser top limit because of trajectory and recoil considerations. I like to shoot my full stocked CZ 550 9.3x62 and my Win 70 SG 30-06, so you know my recoil tolerance. Plese, Gents, tell me your opnions! Thanks in advance, HK formerly, before software update, known as "aHunter", lost 1000 posts in a minute | ||
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30-06, unless you want to hunt in France where military cartridges can be a problem. Then I'd say 300 Winchester Magnum, 7x64 and 9.3x62, in that order. The 300 is a true do-it-all option, with the 7x64 just behind. The 9.3x62 can be a flat shooter if you use 232- or 250-gr. bullets, but it's really best within 250m. Okie John "The 30-06 works. Period." --Finn Aagaard | |||
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How about hand loads and 7x57 or 6.5x57?. | |||
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There is only 1 calibre! .308  | |||
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.308 won"t get into countries with a ban on military calibres. .270 is capable for most things, widely available and non-military. good shooting | |||
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7x64 | |||
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I am with Burkhard, the 7x64 can do it all and then some. It will flatten all non-dangerous game and has done so for many many years. | |||
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7x65: too simple. With your requirements already established there are only a couple of remaining options from my perspective. For the Well-Heeled and sorta not particularly financially constrained: 1. Obtain a "Custom" Single Shot from a number of more exclusive manufacturers with all sorts of "Bells & Whistles"; options including barrel length, weight, and chambering..... 2. A Custom, relatively obscure or unusual Proprietary cartridge with no military background or current use. Having said that: I prefer Single Shots with a rim (flange) although today's modern SS's are manufactured by the countless thousands chambered for rimless cartridges. You asked.....but it's your choice. That leaves you with the vanilla-flavored, off-the-shelf current manufacturer's: Ruger #1, Blaser K-95, Merkel, Kreighoff, Thompson/Center or Baikal (if they would even be an option!). The Ruger; HEAVY, the Kreighoff, relatively expensive and exclusive, the T/C limited in rimmed chamberings, oriented to the North American market and service & accessories difficult to obtain abroad, with the Blaser & Merkel remaining within reach of the most pocketbooks. Personally with your constraints I would suggest the standard grade Blaser K-95 in either .30 Blaser or 7x65R. The Blaser offers good barrel length, reasonable weight (if not lighter than most) open sights and countless scope options with their Saddle Mounts. To narrow that field I'd eliminate the .30 Blaser sinply due to ammunition constraints and go with the MUCH more popular and available 7x65R; ammunition availability, good cartridge design & case volume and for a reloader, bullets galore with large bullet weight selection and NO military implications. Cheers, Number 10 | |||
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For a single shot kiplauf style rifle I would pick an 8 X 57JRS. I think a rimmed cartridge is preferable in a single shot rifle. It's basically the same ballistics as a 30-06, legal in all countries, ammo is easy to find in Europe, and will do a better job on some of the larger stuff like wild boar because you can use heavier bullets than the 7mm. _________________________________ AR, where the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history become the nattering nabobs of negativisim. | |||
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  Not as far as I'm concerned."Science only goes so far then God takes over." | |||
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As a dentist I would recommend the 7x64. Mark Hunting is getting as close as you can, shooting is getting as far away as possible. | |||
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Yes, I was thinking along that lines ... a R 95 in 6.5 x 65R, 7 x 65R, 7 mm Rem Mag, 270 WSM ( no rim! ) or .30 Blaser. 8 x 57 IRS is a short range woods cartridge. 9.3 x 74 R is heavier, but short range, too. ( would be fine in a second barrel setup! ). I own a 9.3 x 62, so I like that 9.3 caliber. I was also thinking about Sabatti - cheap, noisy safety, what are your opinions? As you have for sure noticed, I want a LONG RANGE gun: flat trajectory and ACCURATE. Red Stag at < 250 m, Sheep at 300+. Premium bullet for close shots at an unusual heavy specimen ( I think Nosler partitions ) ( Blaser CDP, Swift A, Trophy bonded, ... ) Thanks for all answers, H formerly, before software update, known as "aHunter", lost 1000 posts in a minute | |||
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Lots of conflicting requirements Large red stag in equation = 7mm minimum Europe includes France so no military calibres Single shot = rimmed cartridge Off the peg but quality with proven accuracy, excellent customer service and good availability = Blaser K95 Recoil Friendly = unachievable in a 7lb gun launching a 140gr plus bullet at 3,000fps or more..... K95 in 7x65R, 7mm rem mag, 30Blaser, 300 Win or Wby mag I'd go 7x65R but some might think this a little light for the largest stags. In fact personaly I would use a 7x57R and handload a 140gr to 2,800fps. | |||
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If I could get a good second hand K 95 in 7 x 65R or 7 mm Rem I think I buy .. or buy a lighter one in .243 or 6.5 57R and rechamber / second barrel? Thanks for all your answers, I´ll look around! H P.S.: 7 x 65R too small for Stag? Moose are shot with 6.5 x 55 ( I didn´t mention that one, as 6.5 x 65R is harder hitting and it´s rimless ) formerly, before software update, known as "aHunter", lost 1000 posts in a minute | |||
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30-06 a magnificent allrounder. As far as I'm aware it's only current military calibres that might be unacceptable in France. 30-06 should be ok. Failing that 7x57 is a fine cartridge and so is the 6.5x55 swedish. the nut behind the butt | |||
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Just an idea from the states, but you might consider the 280 Remington. In a 26" barrel I get within 100-150fps of what the factories claim, but match or beat them out of a 22-24" barrel with my 26" barrel custom Mauser. It can be had in a 26" Ruger #1 in a barreled action if you would prefer to put in a 'European' style stock. capt david  "It's not how hard you hit 'em, it's where you hit 'em." The 30-06 will, with the right bullet, successfully take any game animal in North America up to 300yds. Get closer! | |||
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David, Sound reasoning on the ballistics, agree 100% but try to find .280 Remington ammuntion at stores in Europe. Either 7x64 Brenneke or 7x65R works here. Logistics can be iffy here with Big Green or W-W. Cheers, Number 10 | |||
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Nothing is perfect  30-06 is the answer. "No game is dangerous unless a man is close up" Teddy Roosevelt 1885. | |||
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I want something a little flatter shooting than the old, venerable, respectable ´06. At one time I had FOUR 30-06´s, so I know what I speak of. ( Still love that Caliber ) How ACCURATE are Rugers this days? I like their looks ( and stocks ), but was always reluctant to buy one because of accuracy problems or mediocre accuracy, to say the least, all the time! ??? H formerly, before software update, known as "aHunter", lost 1000 posts in a minute | |||
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Over the years I've thought a lot about what caliber I would have if I was limeted to only one rifle and what cartridge would be as universal for as many hunting conditions around the world as possible. My answer is .300 Winchester mag. It has high velocity for long range shooting,enough power for most big and even dangerous game,Ammo is popular and availble world wide and it fits in very well on smaller game hunting. I have shot and seen many more browen bears shot with the .300 Win and it is very effective. I have also shot game as small as prong horn antelope and roebuck with a .300 Win. On my prong horn hunt we spent a day shooting prairy dogs after the hunt and the .300 worked just fine there. My .300 weighs a lot less than my .338 and has always shown me alot more killing power tham my 30-06. I'm glad that I don't have to restrict myself to only a few rifles for all the hunting I do so I'll pick the rifle for the hunt of the day and more often than not I'll choose somthing other than the .300 but I'm fourtunant in that I have the options. If I had a fire or some other disaster and lost all my rifles the first one back home again would be a .300 Winchester mag. DRSS NRA life AK Master Guide 124 | |||
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By 6,5-55 and rechamber it in 6,5-284 norma.Mild recoil and accurate. | |||
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Goood ideas! I don´t want a "pure" reloading affair, although I have reloaded in the past, and I know the very special satisfaction, if a game falls cleanly to a perfect shot with a self loaded cartridge! I intend to do that in the future, too. 300 Winnie is a great idea ( like 7 mm Rem or 270 Win ), but it´s not RIMMED! I don´t know how important that is in todays guns, ( extraction problems? ) but my intention was world wide hunting, long shots ( game typically:Sheep, Chamois, Mouflon, deer, Siberian Roe Deer, ... you get the idea ). So no Military calibers and flat shooting and 6.5 as minimum and not too much recoil max. Looks like 270 W, 270 WSM, 7 mm Rem, 300 Winnie, with a good, reliable, tough hunting bullet of high BC. Good hunting! H formerly, before software update, known as "aHunter", lost 1000 posts in a minute | |||
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Another idea: I´ve heard, the "Craze" on the Short Magnums is somewhat over - is that true? So which one will stay: 300 WSM or 300 RSUM ( ? )? Is the 270 WSM more popular? Is the 7 mm WSM dead? Very interested in that answers, Gents! Hermann formerly, before software update, known as "aHunter", lost 1000 posts in a minute | |||
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I think the short mags are here to stay. They may never take the world by storm but I've been seeing enough of them around that it seem's theve taken there bit of the market. The .300 short mag was advertized to equal .300 win mag velocities but no one I know has ever acctully achived that. I've only tested them a little ( with a freind who had a couple) but my best hand loads fell somwhere between a 30-06 and the .300 win mag. Still not a bad round and the short action is nice. I don't know how avaible these are in Europe. I'm sure you can get them but maybe not in every hunting shop in the smaller villages. I think the .300 WSM is still the most popular. The belted cases of the .300 win and 7mm rem arn't perfect in any kind of rifle especially any kind of kipplauf rifle. Having said that gunmakers in Europe have been chambering these rifles for belted cases long enough that they have pritty much worked out any problems that you would have with extraction in these rifles. I have a Ferlach double rifle in .338 win mag that has never given me any problem at all. I'm sure that a Merkel or Blaser kipplaufbuchse in .30 Blaser would be pritty cool as well. (at least for you this round is not very common here in north america). DRSS NRA life AK Master Guide 124 | |||
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I do not see why you wonder at all. The .30 Blaser shoots flatter than your .30-06, is rimmed and legal all over. And will only reqire a 24" barrel. If you want somthing even flatter, and more uinique, how abouth the 7x75R vomHoffe? It should equal the 7mmRM. But 26" barrel is needed. Bent Fossdal Reiso 5685 Uggdal Norway | |||
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Found another solution ( not perfect ): I will use my Win 70 SG CRF, .30-06. Will use Federal Hi Energy 180 Nosler Partitions for Trophy hunting trips ( Federal´s regular 165 grs Nosler Partitions load for general hunting ). Will upgrade scope to 10 or 12 x magnification. Weight penalty - compared to my "ideal Mountain rifle" is around 3 pounds. I will try to reduce MY Weight by four pounds ... :-/ Another disadvantage: no hunting in Belgique and France. My question: are anywhere in the World else limitations on ( ex ) Military calibers? WH H formerly, before software update, known as "aHunter", lost 1000 posts in a minute | |||
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Theres only one true all rounder with a hundred year pedigree; the 30-06, and no problem for me as I do like France alot, but never want to hunt there | |||
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I think Mexico also has caliber restricktions but I'm not sure of the details. I'm sure you have other option if you hunt these countries DRSS NRA life AK Master Guide 124 | |||
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The Belgian gun law tightened up very recently, following a street shooting with a -freely sold- hunting rifle. Bad news followed with all firearms subject to authorization. One good thing though, the military caliber ban disappeared (France and Belgium were the only countries to enforce that rule) and these may now be used by hunters. I therefore immediately ordered an extra .30-06 bbl. for my Sauer 202. André DRSS --------- 3 shots do not make a group, they show a point of aim or impact. 5 shots are a group. | |||
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Andre, sad to hear about the increased restrictions following a tragic incident. What is positive is that meaningless caliber restrictions have finally been abolished! Now if only France would follow suit... I wish you all the best with your new .30-06. I'm sure you will come to respect and appreciate the caliber as much as I have learned to do. - mike ********************* The rifle is a noble weapon... It entices its bearer into primeval forests, into mountains and deserts untenanted by man. - Horace Kephart | |||
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8x68S would seem to fit the bill - plenty of power, flat trajectory, and no belt. | |||
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An 8 x 68 S is also on my list. I would like a Mauser style action - eventually a Win 70 ( its so SAD these are discontinoued!!! ). WH H formerly, before software update, known as "aHunter", lost 1000 posts in a minute | |||
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The .30-06 bbl. for my Sauer 202 has arrived and I took it to the range for test shooting last wednesday. I started with the Sierra 165 GK on top of N160 powder. My initial 4 charges produced 5-shot groups ranging from .9 to .7 MOA at 100 m and this is only the beginning. As predicted by Mike, I'm already starting to love the caliber.... André DRSS --------- 3 shots do not make a group, they show a point of aim or impact. 5 shots are a group. | |||
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At the moment I only have two 30-06´s. Had four sometime back. Sold the GUNS, not because of caliber! What dies were you using? You >know< about the GK, do you? ;-))) H formerly, before software update, known as "aHunter", lost 1000 posts in a minute | |||
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I'm using regular RCBS dies. I've been shooting GK's in several calibers since years and have shot dozens of big game with it. Never had a single blow up but then I know and abide by the velocity/range limitations. On tougher game I'll use the Sierra GK HP, which is a tough magnum bullet. BTW, in the meantime I tried the Win Silver Tip and my bbl. doens't like it. André DRSS --------- 3 shots do not make a group, they show a point of aim or impact. 5 shots are a group. | |||
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Good luck Arminius looking for the "perfect" calibre. When you find it,let us all know and we will all buy a rifle of the same calibre. Untill then, I will just have to stick with my 30-06 as it does the job for me and I like it,so perhaps thats my "perfect" calibre?? | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting European Big Game Hunting What Chambering would YOU recommend?
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