Early this year I started suffering increasingly from tinnitus (despite wearing electronic ear plugs) In desperation I put together a 'cheap' rifle with a moderator. It had to handle and balance for stalking large areas of arable.

I bought a just second hand remington SPS in 243 from York Guns and had it delivered to Steve Bowes in Gloucestershire. Meeting up with him we settled on a PES stainless custom moderator with no central sleeve. This cuts down on weight and increases the volume of the rear chamber by allowing the gases onto the exterior of the barrel sealing with 2 'O'rings at the rear. Barrel length was hotly debated with a compromise of 19" being reached after various balancing experiments were made.

I returned 10 days later to find a cheap remington transformed. The threading was immaculate with the moderator turning as if on bearings and nipping up with the slightest of pressure. All the hideously finished metal work had been uniformly blasted and a Jewel fitted and adjusted to slightly under 2lb. I took it home placed a Swaro 6x42 in Talleys and went out with some homeloads. First group went just under half an inch. At that point Mcmillan were contacted and a mountain rifle stock ordered from off the shelf arriving 4 days later. This was near a perfect fit with only a few thou needing to be sanded off one side of the barrel channel.

Loads have been tailored to increase the efficiency of the moderator. Limiting powder to 40gr makes the rifle a tiny bit louder than a reflex equipped 6.5 owned by my friend. The rifle weighs 8.75lbs and balances about half an inch in front of the front action screw. The moderator does not 'ting' when it hits something.

A 90gr BT can be shot legally and has dispatched 10 fallow with great efficiency. An 80gr BT makes a fine roe load and is flat shooting out to 250yards, carcass damage is not a problem with no complaints from the dealer on the 30 or so carcasses so shot. A 55gr BT works extremely well on foxes and muntjac and a 105gr speer can be launched slightly over 2,800fps allthough a case full of RL22 makes it a fair bit louder. All bar the 105gr group in the same spot - an advantage of shorter barrels.

The barrel doesn't foul - period and the chamber is cut such to match the mag box length from the factory. This explains the ability to drive the 105gr so fast from such a short barrel (it seated way over load books COLs)

Having been a confirmed critic of moderators and a hater of Remingtons I find myself veryimpressed with this tool.

Very interesting. I can certainly see the utility in a such a piece. A guy could do all of his UK deer and fox work with this one rifle. Don't tell the FLO's that.

I think you have identified the best part of a remington: they are the basis for a decent rifle. As-issued they are awful.

I'm glad to hear you are so pleased with your moderated .243 stalking rifle. I have just collected my .243 Howa, which has been fitted with a PES modareator. I'm off to the range on Thursday, hope I get as good a result as you did!

I'm sure you will find that the .243 will work great for your deer. I have shot many deer with mine and had great results on both whitetail and blacktail deer. I think they are about the same size as your fallow.
I was really enjoying my stainless fetherweight .243 during my winter hunts on Kodiak island where I was hunting Deer,fox and otter. The .243 was perfect for this hunt except for one miner detail and after a couple of frightening experiences with the bears that are also in abundance on the island I have decided to go back to hunting deer with a .338.

AKshooter

CHICKEN

Bumscratcher, got a reflex on a .243, which is great but cumbersome. Interested on the idea of removing central sleeve from a PES, what are the downsides to this, if there are non why have them in just to increase the weight? Steve was quick on finishing your threading job, know several others waiting for rifles a long time! but know they are worth the weight!!

Bumscratcher

Your right after 36 brown bear and 38 black bear ether personaly taken or personly guided I've learned a little respector them.

"Barrel length was hotly debated" - (Yours is 2 inches too long.)
I've heard it said that non-etched reticle scopes give trouble under confused recoil forces of moderated c/f rifles. Swarovski were specifically mentioned.
Personally I would repaint both the rifle and moderator too a quieter colour scheme.
95 grain b.tip and 85g. sierra hpbt. are the best performing 243 bullets.
The jewell trigger was unnecessary indulgence on such a weapon, a screwdriver and a forum search would have saved another wad of money.
Regards in good humour!!

Trans,

Another forum search on the remington trigger would show a long litany of suspicions re the safety of the remington trigger. It took 30 minutes for Steve to fit the Jewell (stock mods required) and I was off and running at the height of my buck culling season able to adjust to my preferance with a simple allen key. My experience of trigger jobs on standard triggers is that they are never right first off. £200 is expensive until you get a perfect trigger at which point it's the best money I spent on the rifle!

AKshooter
it took you 70 odd bears to realize the 243 was a little small? i learned that the first time i saw one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i`m glad i had my 6.5 swede in my hands!!.

Joke`s aside, you are one lucky person to have been in the presence of one of gods greatest creatures.
I have been blessed to go on two Bear hunts (ONT Canada,MT USA) and it has turned my hunting on its head, where once i would spend on the next shooting "thing" now i save for that trip over the pond, AK was going to be my next trip.

From your experiance, is the Brown bear as fearsome as some people would like us to believe? I saw the Cabelas show were the fella from alaska knives had to shoot the sow that charged the group of hunters, is this common behaviour? the sow and cub seemed to be some ways off.

many thanks for your time B

many thanks for your time

Bumscratcher you have completely hi-jacked this thread. If you want to start talking about shooting bears start your own thread.

1894 top rig by the way. I have been toying with the idea of shortening the barrel to produce a similar tool but taking the barrel back further to perhaps 16 inches and then putting on a jet z.

With regards to Remingtons I have had 5 to date and all have shot well some even consistent sub .5's so i am not surprised that yours shot as well as stated. As you have found the other benefit is the after market accessories which are available to produce a semi custom rifle.

Good shooting.

I wish I had expireance with the moderators that you guy's are using but unfortunantly they are not leagle for hunting here. As far as berrel length is concerned of the two .243's I've owned one with an 18" barrel and one with a 22" I don't think your loosing much with the short barrel. I wish that I would have made a comparison over my chronograph but the 18" rifle is gone now.

Bumscratcher- Jon 2 is right. I'll be happy to PM you and fill you in on the bears

Pardon the ignorance,

Is barrel length on a moderatred rifle measured to the threads or to the end of the moderator?

Jon2, sorry
Fallow buck, i know were you are going with this.Barrel length is as its name inplies, excluding mod, 16" is min barrel length.
B

FB

My babe is only 14"!! Mind you, it predates the reflex style mods and was sized accordingly!

Rgds IanF

Having now been to the range, I wonder why I didn't moderate my rifles years ago! The 243 I had fitted with a PES moderator now shoots much tighter groups, has significantly less felt recoil, and obviously is very much quieter.

Ian,

Are you referring to the rifle that might convert me on my irrational dislike of 270's? (and indeed get me off my @rse to get mine moderated)

FB

quote:

The 243 I had fitted with a PES moderator now shoots much tighter groups, has significantly less felt recoil, and obviously is very much quieter.

And also the muzzle flash in the dark is almost nonexistant, don't you think?

The moderators are really great devices. T8 moderator made my .338 Win Sako recoil like a .308 without one, which made it really much easier to shoot. With the moderator on I could also hear the bullet hitting the animal even on short ranges, which wasn't possible before. Oi remember one time when it was a very valuable character, since I would probably have regarded the shot a miss, but the sound of the hit kept me tracking although no other signs of a hit were identifiable. And finally, with a help of my mate, I found the stone-dead whitetail doe which had left no blood or hair or anything even though hit almost perfectly to the lungs.

JTH, I haven't shot the 243 in the dark yet, but what you say does make sense. With the extra length of the modeator I guess the majority of the flash would be contained in it. Will let you know when I've done fox lamping!

hi 1894,
Can you tell me what velocities you are getting with your 19" barrel and ~40gns powder with the 70BT? I am in the process of rebarrelling my sako 243 and cannot decide how short to go. The previous barrel was 22" measured from the bolt face to the crown. I'd like to save weight and stop the weight forward balance when the moderator (T4) is on, but don't want to lose the deer legal energy with 70BTs.
Regards, Mike

quote:

Originally posted by simonbm:
The 243 I had fitted with a PES moderator, has significantly less felt recoil,

Why would you want to reduce the recoil of a .243? It has next to none!!

IMO fitting a moderator onto a centre fire is like sticking dixie airhorns on a Rolls Royce.

Just plain ugly and unbalanced.

Gerry,
While I agree with your position on the look and feel of a suppressor, I have become a reluctant convert. For someone who won"t buy stainless or synthetic in a stalking rifle, suppressors were a big step. I had my 243 threaded a couple of years ago, with the intention of just using the suppressor when I needed it, like 5.00am on an August morning near a farmhouse for example.
I have"nt been stalking without the suppressor fitted all this past season. I"ve just gotten so used to it. I used to let foxes walk if I had made an effort to get up early in the morning and did"t want to scare everything for the sake of a fox. Now the fox gets whacked anyway, hopefully with a lot less disturbance.
When I shoot a deer with the suppressor on, other deer beside the target react more to the sound of the impact than to the shot, and they don"t know how to react.
I"ve just changed my 308 to a lighter rifle(from varmint barrel to standard version) and I chose to have it threaded. In just over 2 years I have gone from disliking suppressors to having them on all 3 of my rifles.
And believe me I know all about "ugly and unbalanced"!
good shooting

You Brits are so damned civilized (sometimes).

In the U.S., Hollywood gave suppressors (they like to call them "silencers") the image of gangster tools, and thus managed to have them outlawed (or strictly regulated) in the NFA of 1937. States followed suit and most outlawed even otherwise legal suppressors for use on game animals.

There's simply no good policy reason for not dampening the noise of a high-power rifle. Too bad we Yanks can't use them.

Ask for one and then sue the authorities for hearing damage when they turn you down. It worked for us!!
good shooting

Kiri, TTT.

Looks like 1894 has deleted the photo's.

Darn host site has vanished.

I'll send them to Pete to post (can't at work or home at present)

I am going to get a suppressor added to my .270, can anyone tell me roughly what it cost them?
The only gunshop in Edinburgh wants £350 for a PES Jet-Z and £250 for a T8. Is there a substantial difference between the two? I have been told the T8 is louder and larger.

The T8 is definitely the cheapest. But it is a sealed unit, you can't strip it down and clean it. They were originally designed for the military, to be used and then discarded when worn out. I have a stainless steel PES. I think it was around the £300 mark. It can be stripped down and cleaned. I am very pleased with it. It is quiet and has reduced felt recoil. I have it mounted on a Howa 1500 varmint in .243 It shoots sub MOA