Gentlemen,
I see in the Sambhur post the word weidmannsheil is used. I have a German Weidmannsheil brand knife which is very good for dressing deer. I would just like to know what the word means
Thank you.

Hi oldun,

a "weidmann" means hunter in german and "heil" is for a blessing. You really can not translate it literally but it means like "good hunting to you" or so. Its also used for greeting between hunters.
Since we have a long tradition in hunting in Europe and especially in the german speaking countries, there even exist rules, how and when it should be used.

Best Regards
Roman

Hunters luck!

So what is the difference between "Jager" with an omlaut, or "Jaeger" and "Waidmann"?

Also I understand the toast must be done with the left hand, or so I have been lectured.

hunters luck i believe if somebody says weidmannsheil to you whilst hunting your reply would be weidmannsdanke can our german friends clarify a bit better

regards scirroco

An interesting topic this.....and good questions.

The German speaking Germany, Austria, Switzerland and Italy have local variations in dialect, pronunciation & spelling . In Germany the correct spelling is "Waidmannsheil" pronounced phonetically as "V-eye-d-mans-h-I'll).

A "Waidmann" (V-eye-d-man) is literaly a "Sport" or "Fair-Chase" kinda guy who repsects the Game he hunts, other Hunters and the traditions & concepts of Traditional Germanic Hunting which is based on a principle of conservation. Someone who holds a German Hutning License (Yes, a big deal!) is expected to be a "Waidmann", net, a Good Sport. A foreigner who is a guest is not expected to know and understand all the intricacies, although there may be some general good-natured ribbing involved.

There are differences in when to say "Waidmannsheil" which is translated as "Hunters Greeting" or "Hunter's Salutation" and "Waidmannsdank" (Hunters Thanks/Thank You).

There are also nuances when to use your left hand, this arises from a tradition of military saluting where the right hand was traditionally used for a weapon; i.e., sword, spear or rifle, shaking hands or saluting, or during such events, especially during a meal your right hand holds a fork or knife and you toast with your left. The left hand also remains free to accept the "Hunters Branch" which is awarded by the host to hunters either directly after the kill (when together with your host) or in a formal assembled setting at the end of a Drive Hunt with a group of Hunters, Dog Handlers, Beaters and Horn Blowers. The reason is that when receiving a "Hunters Branch" you should be holding your rifle with a sling over your right shoulder with your right hand (also in a certain position and way).

The left hand is exclusively used for formal toasts after (or during a hunt) when a refreshment is offered, it can be a beer or wine or even various flavored Schnapps. If you are drinking your beverage during normal conversation, dinner and course of an event it is pefectly acceptable to use your right hand.

The good part about making mistakes with your right/left hand is that the accepted "fine" for abuse of accumen is you get to drink more.....the downside is that EVERYONE gets to drink more and at your expense as the round of drinks for the assembled group will go on your bill!

Yes, these and many other traditions are keenly observed and in active practice today as is the "Whole Person Concept" as an assessment of how a real German "Waidmann" conducts & behaves. While it may all sound a bit complicated and over-done it is actually a great way to depict your dedication and comaradery to our colleagues & passion.

There are many differnt spellings and use of the words "Jaeger" "Jäger" and "Waidmannsheil". Especially for brand names and on equipment. The three umlauts, ä, ö & ü, cannot be used on all international keyboards, typewriters, etc. so they get translated to "ae", "oe" & "ue" and so forth this is even used today for e-mail names on foreign mailing lists. Basically to meet a global standard. Many who left the Germanic parts of the world changed their name spellings for ease.

There are some regional differences regarding use of "Waidmann" or "Weidmann", and some debates in German hunting forums which is the correct one.
Frankly, I can't tell and I don't care.
Coming from southern Germany, I prefer -ei-

Using the left hand for a toast: I believe this is not a very old custom, and I will refuse to pay any fines if I'm caught "wrong-handed".

Plenty of rituals actually stem from the "1000 year empire" times, and it's not easy to separate these from the really old customs.

Fuhrmann

Sounds like Rugby rules all over again...

Left hand Drinking
No pointing
No double Parking
Thumbmaster
Drinking to the peg...

I like the idea of the horn blowers though. Are they people that participated in the hunt either as guns or beaters or are they a "group" in their own right?

Rgds,
FB

Gentlepeople:

I'm an American, married to a wonderful Austrian lady. I have hunted in Austria and Hungary with my father-in-law, a big hunter.

My German is Spartan to be generous, but I joke with my wife that the only German phrases I nned to know are: "Ein großes Bier bitte" "One large beer please" and "Hilfe, ich sind verletzt" "Help, I am hurt."

Everytime I hunt with my wife's family, the traditional "weidmannsheil" is always said between hunters before going afield and from my wife and mother-in-law before I leave to hunting.

One thing I do love about hunting in Austria is the deeply rooted tradition. I've only hunted boar there so I can't speak about the traditions (if any) for hunting star/deer/etc.

When a boar is killed, a piece of foliage from the closest bush to the boar is removed and stuffed into the animal's mouth. I was told that this represents the animals "final meal." It honors the animal.

Also, a tuft of hair is removed from the withers of the hide and "mounted" in the hat of the hunter. (The hat is the traditional variety and forgive my ignorance, but resembles the hat worn my Robin Hood in the movies.)

My two cents.

577NitroExpress

Ok, I am totally confused. Not unusual for me...

What is the difference between;
die Sprungdeckeluhr, das Jagdpferd, der Jäger, der Pirschjäger

375 AI:

Here is my translation of these terms--but a native German speaker might expand on this better:

die Sprungdeckeluhr: clock that has something that springs out, like a cookoo clock

das Jagdpferd: a hunting horse (the horse a hunter uses while hunting)

der Jäger: a hunter

der Pirschjäger: a hunter that stalks/goes after his game

In German, the literal translation doesn't mean the same as in the native tongue. This is the closest that I can come up with.

Gentlemen,
Thank you for your comments.
I come from Wales where I was involved with the local Hunt and have hunted with several English Packs. The language of Chase, was, untill recently, (I suppose it will die since the banning of hunting to hounds), very much alive.
Tell me, a knife blade with a bulbous tip, used for gutting a deer, does it have a name?

Hello oldun,

the knife which, i suppose, you are speaking about is called "Waidblatt" or "Weidblatt". As Gerry already pointed out, there is some local variation (ai or ei) for these terms due to dialects.

Talking about hunting knifes - you also might heard about the "Nicker", "Knicker" or "Gnicker". This is a smaller (approx. 3" to 4") knife with a much narrower blade and was used in the past to dispatch wounded game.

Cheers
Roman

Great!

Oldun, this thread is taking us to lots of different territory.....

577.....Super experinces from Austria & Hungary! Your answers to the words are good but as for a "Sprungdeckeluhr" (I am not familiar with the word) but translated means "spring-cover-clock" so my guess would be a spring opening covered pocket-watch?

As Roman said the Waidblatt is still very much in use and good examples can be found in the excellent Puma line of knives. Often seen and used throughout Germany today the bulbous tip is used more for cutting bread, spreading butter and slicing Würst - for which it among game cleaning chores is also perfectly suited.

The one my visitng buddies appreciate the best and continue to repeat during their evening beer tasting sessions and Word-of-the-Day is:

Zielfernrohr

(pronounce that!) which is the German word for "Scope" literally translated meaning an "Aiming-Distance-Pipe!

Gerry:

Thank you for the kind words. Hunting in Austria is so much more rooted in tradition than here in the states, although I think a number of deer camps throughout the land can rival it with their pseudo "traditions." (Like cutting off the shirt tails of any hunter in camp that shoots at and misses a deer.)

We don't honor the animals here like they do in Austria & Hungary. (I can't speak for other countries since I haven't hunted there.)

Regarding "Sprungdeckeluhr" I spoke with my wife and she also said that it could be a cookoo clock, but you're probably right. I'll ask her again.

My wife (native German speaker from Austria) did tell me that the German language has evolved over the years. The state my wife is from is called Styria in English, and Steirmark in German. Her grandmother and older aunt, she says, will sometime have a conversation in "Styrian German" and she can't understand a word of it.

I'll ask my father-in-law (big time hunter) what that word mean and if there are any ties to hunting.

Very respectfully,

Hi,
Gerry,
Yes I have a knife known as a jagdtnicker, which I was told by an Austrian living here in New Zealand, was carried in a special pocket in a pair of lederhosen.

In Britain, a knife or blade with a bulbous tip is known as a gralloch knife from the Gaelic;
grealach, a deers entrails.
To gralloch a deer is to gut it.
For myself, I like the terms, phrases and rituals of the chase, be they hunting or stalking. They bring a sense of tradition and respect for the quarry, which I find a counter ballance to the me now attitudes amongst which we all seem to live.
Gentlemen thank you for your contributions to what has been for me, and I hope has been for you, an interesting post.

I like a lot of these tradtions especially giving respect to the game, but sometimes they can also be a bit too much, and can be a bit stifling if overdone.

The Waidmannsheil is a good one, but studying a specific "hunting language" for three years to know the correct term for "walking" or "shoulder" or "leg", "hill" or whatever isn't for me. A "New World" point of view I guess.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerry:
The German speaking Germany, Austria, Switzerland and Italy have local variations in dialect, pronunciation & spelling . In Germany the correct spelling is "Waidmannsheil" pronounced phonetically as "V-eye-d-mans-h-I'll).

Incorrect.

Carcano

Nitrox,
I've been thinking about your comments and there is merit in what you write.
It's my recommendation that all German speaking peoples should completely abandon centuries of
traditional language use, cultural norms and adopt the more modern phrases eg.
She's right,
No worries,
Bute,
Goodonya mate.
The drinking of German beer should be banned and the drinking of Fosters made mandatory.
Finaly the calling of women Frau should be dropped for the better Sheila.
Do you think it would be going too far to ban the German language all together and insistant that Aussie is spoken?

I need to visit Kiwiland, there are probably enough sheep to keep all the Kiwis busy, while I have a go at the Sheilas.