This is on the BASC website this mng:



2 April 2007………………………………………………………immediate release

Defra has announced that it will now be extending the season for deer by four weeks, instead of two weeks as originally planned. This follows lobbying by BASC and other stalking and deer organisations.

The changes have been published in the Regulatory Reform Order’s scrutiny committee report this afternoon.

BASC’s Deer Officer, Alan McCormick, said; “We are really pleased that the open season will be extended by four weeks instead of two which was originally proposed. BASC spent a lot of time talking to the government about this issue and in the latter stages of the lobbying process; we collaborated with other organisations to push for this critical measure to be extended to four weeks.â€

Other changes to the deer laws include: allowing smaller calibre rifles to be used to shoot Chinese Water Deer and Muntjac and allowing licensed taking of deer out of season and at night to protect natural heritage, preserve public health and safety, or prevent serious property damage.

Alan McCormick said; “We are disappointed that stalkers still won’t be able to use .22 centrefires for shooting roe but overall we are very happy with these changes to the deer laws. They will hopefully strike the right balance between conserving deer and addressing the problems they cause.â€

ENDS

That will help out tremendously in certain areas/circumstances. I know it will be a big bonus to me and Griff on the Fallow.

Jon I feel a plan hatching

good to hear that 22 centrefires will not be allowed for roe, why they are allowed for muntjac and CWD, must be becuase they are considered a lesser deer.Just don't add up does it!

regards
griff

Politically, not legalising .22 CF for roe might be a blessing in disguise for many stalkers...

Not sure about the implications of extending the seasons by 4 weeks...I can't help but think that the deer are under enough pressure as it is..

If the Government had wanted to increase the cull, they should have done something to make stalking more accessable ie allow some sort of free stalking on public land as is done in other countries. While I don't think a straight forward free for all would be the way to go, certainly some sort draw system could be instigated...

I think not legalising 22 centre fire for Roe is very unfortunate. It would have made sense to have standardized calibres permitted in the whole of the UK. Besides 22 centre fire is plenty powerful enough for humane despatch of Roe. As usual it's more about correct bullet placement rather than how much gun you have!!

Simon,

The counter argument is that legalising it would have given certain Police Forces leverage not to grant over .22CF for somebody who only has roe amd muntjac on their ground...I realise that such an approach would not be backed by the letter of the law, but neither is insisting that new stalkers hold a DMQ1 before being granted an FAC...A lot of FLO's are very good at confusing "policy" and the "law of the land"...

Bravo! I reckon they have made the ideal decisions. Extending the hind/doe season when the vegetation is at it's lowest and the big groups of hinds are most in evidence hereabouts.
Keeping 243 rule for Roe adds credence to the need for specialist "deer rifle/ specialist deer controller as opposed to " shoot the foxes and shoot any deer while your at it."

Trans

I agree with your every word - great minds etc....

Rgds Ian

Great to hear they have extended the doe season. Knowing Defra it will be phased in gradually over a 10 year period like all other crap policies.
It does however address the issue of the pheasant season majorly disrupting the fallow doe cull until they become a tight group of deer, very nervous sitting in the middle of large fields. Now we can let them settle a little through Feb and return to the woods.

Mark

Pete, Trans, you both make a lot of sense in your counter argument. However, isn't it a shame we live in a country, where instead of welcoming the fact that another tool for the job might become available to us, we are more worried that because of this several others will be removed! And what a shame certain Police forces have not worked out that they are there to serve us, instead of putting barriers in at every available moment.

Simon,

quote:

As usual it's more about correct bullet placement rather than how much gun you have!!

I would of thought that it is a combination of both, enough gun so that if you make a mistake on bullet placement there is sufficient energy to transmit a fatal wound..
Not all 22 centrefires have that..

regards
grif

It is interesting that the taboo on shooting bucks in velvet (earlier thread) is stronger than the taboo against shooting heavily pregnant does.

Boghossian,
too many stalkers being too selective, has left us in this position.
We have a brochure that comes through on a yearly basis with stalking regulaly advertized at £750 for 2 days hind stalking, yet the DCS is culling at unprecedented levels and we are asking why, the answer is quite simple everybody wants their cake and eat it!
Excessive rents preclude most stalkers to those who appear once in a blue moon who find it fashionable to be called a "deer stalker".

regards
griff

quote:

Originally posted by trans-pond:
Bravo! I reckon they have made the ideal decisions. Extending the hind/doe season when the vegetation is at it's lowest and the big groups of hinds are most in evidence hereabouts.
Keeping 243 rule for Roe adds credence to the need for specialist "deer rifle/ specialist deer controller as opposed to " shoot the foxes and shoot any deer while your at it."

Exactly!

I presume the 22 owning individual will still need deer put on his certificate and that this will still need level 1?

Pete - I don't think deer are under nearly enough pressure in most areas, I also think that stalking is quite popular enough judging by the number of times landowners are approached!

"I presume the 22 owning individual will still need deer put on his certificate and that this will still need level 1?"


I don't quite get this, are you saying that level 1 is a requirement to obtain FAC if you wish to stalk deer?, or have I read this all wrong.

John

JAYB, I believe some firearms officers are putting this in as an unofficial requirement in England.

I have never heard of this happening in Scotland.

John,

Yes some FLO's are asking for a DSC! qualification before they grant a certificate. It is a grip of mine because on more than one occasion I have seen the DSC do more harm than good. Either way it is not a legal requirement but FLO's are not being questioned on it.

I'm still not sure about the extending of the seasons. I'm not keen on gralloching heavily pregnant does but it does need to be done.

The reality is that especially with Roe I've heard of a number of bits of stalking going for no less than £10/acre to continental stalkers that only want to shoot the biggest bucks. In most cases the does are left unchecked and there is no actual deer control in evidence. How we are going to do a more effective job when land is getting taken up like that I don't know?? Pregnant or otherwise the deer does especially are not getting put under nearly enough pressure.

FB

quote:

Originally posted by JAYB:
"I don't quite get this, are you saying that level 1 is a requirement to obtain FAC if you wish to stalk deer?, or have I read this all wrong.

John

This is official police policy in N Ireland - No DSC1, no deer legal centrefire. This has no basis in law, but I am not aware of any one making a successful challenge in court.

Claret Dabbler,

And with BASC being the prime mover behind the DMQ, which is also a major source of revenue for them, I can't help but feel there would be a strong conflict of interests if a member approached BASC to fight their corner on this one...

Regards,

Pete

quote:

Originally posted by Pete E:

And with BASC being the prime mover behind the DMQ, which is also a major source of revenue for them, I can't help but feel there would be a strong conflict of interests if a member approached BASC to fight their corner on this one...

Regards,

Pete

Pete, such cynicism in one so young....

Do you not know the basc are completely committed to defending us. They are not just interested in our money and their own cushy jobs.

I predict the next thing will be general "competence tests" before shotgun certs are issued etc. BASC sponsored of course.

quote:

Originally posted by Claret_Dabbler:

quote:

Originally posted by Pete E:

And with BASC being the prime mover behind the DMQ, which is also a major source of revenue for them, I can't help but feel there would be a strong conflict of interests if a member approached BASC to fight their corner on this one...

Regards,

Pete

Pete, such cynicism in one so young....

Do you not know the basc are completely committed to defending us. They are not just interested in our money and their own cushy jobs.

I predict the next thing will be general "competence tests" before shotgun certs are issued etc. BASC sponsored of course.

One So Young??? CD you really need that Easter Break!!

But yes that s indeed the case. Did anyone else follow the letters pages in the shooting press with all the Ex & Current BASC Council members sqaubbling over how good or bad they were... If that is what we saw I hate to think of the real state of affairs.

I moved to the CA a few years ago for my insurance and am not seeing any reason to rejoin BASC at present. Unfortunately I'm not to sure about the BDS so God knows what I'll do when I need to do my DSC!!! I suppose I'll have to get off my moral mule and hand over the wedge!!

Rgds,
FB

Kiri, I am going stir crazy here. Need to get out fishing over the next few days. Might get down to Carrowmore in Mayo late next week.

Anything planned for the break?

Just out of curiosity; I think I have a clue what you are generally talking about, but would someone care to explain what these letter-combinations mean:
BASC
DCS
FAC
DMQ
BDS?

BASC : British Association For Shooting & Conservation

DCS: Deer Commision for Scotland
FAC: Firearms Certificate
DMQ: deer Management Qualification
BDS: British Deer Society

The DMQ is actually a 1 week long course designed for deer managers. the qualification referred to here is the DSC1 (Deer Stalkig Certificate). They kinda get used interchangeably but aren't actually the same thing as far as I know.

Rgds,
FB

You forgot one the WSS,

WSS = Well Shafted Stalkers,
because that is what we will be if things continue as they are. My certificates are off renwal at the moment, a usually easy affair. I wonder what will happen over the next five years? Will I have to get the DSC level 2 to shoot a crow.

The only good thing I can see is that it might well drive me to drink

John

Thanks for the interpretation, makes a lot more sense now (in a way, at least ).