I'm thinking of getting my FAC varied for a 22 c/f for the smaller species of deer and fox control. I'm toying with the idea of a 223 or 22-250. I'm leaning towards the 223 at the mo as I've been told that the barrel life on the 22-250 isn't that great, but I'm eager to hear what people recomend that have experience with these calibers. Also what make of rifle? I want to spend up to £700 ish really and already have a scope for it.

Just a bit of a pointer,Make sure you get the condition to allow you to take / shoot the smaller species of Deer in the U.K., not just in Scotland! .223 is perfect for Fox out to 200/300 metres, we use 40grain Nosler ballistic tip or 52grain A-MAX , both over 24.8 grains Vit N133.

The .223 seems to one of the cartridges that performs better than it should. They can be real speedy with the 40gr bullets but if you're looking for something up to the size of small deer, make sure you get a fast enough twist to stabilize the 60gr Noselr Partition bullet. It really works great --- low noise, easy to shoot and deadly in the hands of a good shot who knows the angles.

My Remington model 7 chambered in .223 is my favorite walking around rifle.

Plus 1 on the twist rate, I was at a range a couple of months back & a guy was about to bin his rifle, (a.223), His was slinging them all over the butts, I had a look at what he was feeding it, Surprise surprise, Radway green military weight, I offered him a handful of our pet fox loads & told him to just bring back the brass, he came back a different guy he was all in the inner ring about an inch.

There is a neat, new Anschütz rifle in this caliber: Anschütz 1770.

I have owned 3 rifles in 22/250. A Ruger No1V,a Sako and currently a Howa.
I do regret parting with the Ruger,once I had it on song it shot like a dream.
Its barrel never showed any sign of wear/erosion despite several thousand rounds.
The Howa I cannot fault,ugly [stainless,synthetic]but it does the biz for me.
However although I am a self confessed 22/250 fan,it is our minimum deer calibre,a .223 is going to be quieter and more economical to run.

You'll find no practical difference in barrel life between the .22-250 and the .223: Either will last longer than you if not abused with volumes of rapid-fire shooting; either will wear out prematurely if treated as an ammunition rapid recycling machine.

Similarly, the difference in velocity of one over the other is meaningless to game. A 55 or 60 grain bullet starting at well over 3000 fps is what you'll get from either. Buy the one which is available in the gun you fancy most.

.223 is an excellant round. my cousin has a cz american in .223 and uses 50 gr norma soft points on fox and crow. if i had one for muntjac i would use the 60 gr partition. it is important not to use varmint bullets on deer where you need significant penetration.

Hornady #2265

I'm thinking about a CZ 527 Carbine in 223 for Fallow. There's a post in the small calibre rifles section, and lots of replies, although lots of people are talking about their carbines in 7.62x39, not 223.
I think it should be a good choice, with some other 527s with longer barrels or different twists.
By the way, I didn't realise 223 was a legal deer calibre in the UK. On smaller deer I think it should be spot on, with less meat damage than say a 308.

I'm sure the .223 would work great on the vast majority of fallow stalking applications.

Would be interesting to hear what differences, if any, people have noticed since .222 became a legal muntjac/cwd calibre down here? I seem to remember a lot of opposition to this change in the rules. Personally I'm a little dissapointed it wasn't extended to include roe deer.

For me it works just like a .243

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On smaller deer I think it should be spot on, with less meat damage than say a 308.

I have found that a smaller faster bullet like an 80 gr .243 bullet does more damage than a bigger slower bullet like .308 150 gr bullet. I wonder how .223 would compare?

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Originally posted by Millwall Paul:
I'm thinking of getting my FAC varied for a 22 c/f for the smaller species of deer and fox control. I'm toying with the idea of a 223 or 22-250.

why not just get a .243 and use 100g sp
as what avantage will the smaller calibre hav over a .243
i kill foxes cleanly from point blank to over 300 yards and taken all 6 species of UK deer comfortably with the same rifle, can't do all of that legally with a .223 or .22-250
plus chest shooting a munty with a 50g ballistic tip may not give you the result you would like

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chest shooting a munty with a 50g ballistic tip may not give you the result you would like

These BT`s are "varmint" bullets so you are asking for trouble using them.

"most".223 cup and core bullets will kill deer cleanly, but, they are NOT all the same. I did some extensive testing 4 years ago on this subject (486 rounds fired) and found that for all around availability and cost the Hornady #2265 was the ticket (infact it lost only 1" in penetration tests to the Nos Partition).

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Originally posted by Richard E:

quote:

Originally posted by Millwall Paul:
I'm thinking of getting my FAC varied for a 22 c/f for the smaller species of deer and fox control. I'm toying with the idea of a 223 or 22-250.

why not just get a .243 and use 100g sp
as what avantage will the smaller calibre hav over a .243
i kill foxes cleanly from point blank to over 300 yards and taken all 6 species of UK deer comfortably with the same rifle, can't do all of that legally with a .223 or .22-250
plus chest shooting a munty with a 50g ballistic tip may not give you the result you would like

You might find it difficult to obtain permission to stalk larger Reds on Scots estates with your .243, recently it's been very difficult to get the permission with this calibre, I shot my first Reds with a SAKO .243, Both Hinds went down within yards of the strike, but having further experience of stalking, The larger calibres are the way to go, You need a dedicated small varmint calibre for the Fox/small stuff like Roe & Munties/CWD and a larger cal for the bigger heavier deer, .243 is a cracking calibre but starts to suffer around 90+ grain bullet weights, I have been told .243 was originally a Foxing round anyway, so practice your skills at neck shooting small targets for your smaller deer species with a .223/.222/22.250. I personally along with friends use a .223 Rem loaded with 40grain Nosler ballistic tips over Vit N133 24.8 gns out to 300mtrs for Fox, & substitute a 52 gn A-max over the same for Roe. Steve.

Just as an aside," Ballistic tips "can come in disguise, A-max ballistic tips in all weights prove to be full on bad medicine for taking game, whereas V-max can be quite problematic on live targets. From vast trial & error in the field!

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substitute a 52 gn A-max over the same for Roe

I may be wrong but arn`t A max`s "match Bullets"?.

My feelings on 22 centrefires on deer are well known!
But let me quote you a man who's opinion cannot be disputed..

John Nosler founder member of Nosler bullets.
Quote"the 22CF is not a deer round it is better to use a larger calibre".

regards
griff

Arguments about stuff like this can rage on for ever,its all about how the individual feels about this,just because somebody doesnt think it good enough doesnt mean it isn`t.
As an example, would anybody dispute the fact that the single most popular ivory hunters caliber of the early 1900`s was the 7x57!.What does this prove? well nothing actualy but its true,is it right for me? possibly, but i KNOW how i shoot. Is it an eli round? absolutly not but the facts from history are what they are.

Back to the 223. Years back i used to shoot Kangaroo`s for the pet food trade,i saw lots of calibers used for many and all reasons,but the guys that did it more "professionally" genrely used some kind of .22 (usualy 22.250) I used a Parker Hale .222.
Kangaroo`s are very easy to kill, but they are ALOT larger than roe and they are not bullet proof.
At the end of the day, if you put a hole (large or small)through the lungs of ANY animal it will die its as simple as that.

steve
i agree , of late a 243 has not been accepted by a lot of estates , but i think it is more to do with the people that use them than the calibre it's self
i run a 30-06 on fallow red and sika , because i like the extra security
but those that are are capable of using a smaller calibre to good affect will feel different
and damn i hav seen these guys shoot
200 yard head shot on roe with a 222 is not an issue may not be politcaly correct to some but these guys can shoot and cosistent too
out of my league yes
but not out of my frame of mind
untill you are able to match or better this sort of standard then why handicap yourself
i often thought a 30-06 using 55 grain heads was the way ahead
how wrong was i
125 prooved easier to obtain and load
not a calibre that you might get for bunnies but who would know ,as once a bunnie was hit with this, no chance of finding any evidence
to incriminate you

John Nosler was probably talking about whitetail and mule deer rather than muntjac and roe.

There are definitely good arguments both ways, but it's interesting that so many people used the humble .22 hornet to stalk roe before the deer act...

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Originally posted by bumscratcher:

quote:

substitute a 52 gn A-max over the same for Roe

I may be wrong but arn`t A max`s "match Bullets"?.

Yes you are 100% correct about the match description, but from experience these rounds are of perfect construction for the jobs we employ them for, expansion is spot on through the usual ranges for foxing etc; V-maxes performed very dissapointingly, so we don't purchase them anymore. Steve.

Again i may be wrong, and i havn`t looked it up, but doesn`t the law require "ammunition designed to expand"?

I am refureing to deer usage and not fox

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Originally posted by bumscratcher:
Again i may be wrong, and i havn`t looked it up, but doesn`t the law require "ammunition designed to expand"?

I am refureing to deer usage and not fox

Once they are out of their packaging they are hard to tell what they were designed to do, just as some seconds that will remain nameless that turn up with completely different coloured plastics in the sharp end, Also " match " stuff like Berger with the hollow point find their way into game with very very good results, A mechanically destructive test would be the only real way of differentiating between so called match & expanding bullets in the b t collection.

My apologies to Paul if the thread has drifted off topic