Folks,

I’d appreciate your suggestions.
I currently stalk with a Steyr SSG69 in 308. I also use it for occasional range use and practical rifle competitions. However it can be a pain constantly re-adjusting/zeroing (more commonly remembering to do so!) as I stalk roe and reds which require different bullet weights. It's also a handful with the Kahles scope and T8 moderator.

Now I heard that Strathclyde Police were a bit ‘itchy’ when moving into the area so I deliberately got a free slot in caliber 22-250 with my old force, Essex before moving. Question is whether 22-250 is a good choice of caliber for woodland roe stalking and occasional fox?

Other calibers I currently have are:

22lr
7.5x55 swiss
45/70
308

Marc

Marc,

Whats your most common shot distance?

Between 100-150 meters or is that to far?

In that case is the 22-250 far to high velo for my opnion for roe, even with TBBC or TSX bullets it will yield dramatic effects in roes, not nice at all.

For fox sure it´s a great round, but still within 200 yards a 223 will do the same work, and the limited barrel life of 1500-2000 rdns for a 22-250 makes them a bit pricy to shoot.

How about a second 308 Win, a dedicated stalking rifle with a integral moderator?

Short, lighterweight and built to shoot 150 grains TSX bullets or similar?

BTW what is your 45-70 for a rifle, within 100 yards it´s a great stalking round and a hard hitter.






Best regards Chris

The .22-250 is a good roe caliber, although it can be a bit hard on the meat. In particular, if your gun has a 1:14 barrel, which precludes the use of heavier bullets. But it would do the job, no doubt about it.

Personally, and in particular since I don't have access to a tracking dog, I prefer a larger caliber when shooting in woods. Sometimes you just *need* that bloodspoor! Your .308 would have been ideal, but so would your 7.5x55.

The .22-250 is a better choice for fox, although either the .308 or 7.5x55 would definitely get the job done - even though the results may not be as pretty.

- mike

for woodland stick with the 308 or the 45-70, imo the 22-250 is just to quick a caliber for roe.
if you need a new gun look at the 6,5x55 for roe, nice caliber zero recoil no heavy meat damage and still good for 300 meters shots.

best regards

peter

p.s. i never shot a roe past 120 meters

quote:

Now I heard that Strathclyde Police were a bit ‘itchy’ when moving into the area so I deliberately got a free slot in caliber 22-250 with my old force, Essex before moving

does this mean .22-250 or nothing?
if so, you dont got much of a choice.

for a dedicated roe rifle, i would go bigger than .22

if ranges of 200m+ is common, maybe a .240wby or .25-06
for hunting inside 200m i would go 6.5x55 or any cartridge based on the .308 case

First of all, I highly doubt you'll shoot out a 22-250 barrel even after 3,000 to 5,000 rounds. Since there is concern about "high velocity" an obvious solution is to go with heavier bullets which will slow velocity and improve barrel life. My personal favorite 22-250 bullet is the Speer 70 gr. Semi-Spitzer. My barrel is 1:12 twist and stabilizes this bullet just fine and I've heard of those using it with a 1:14 twist barrel.

Secondly, I've shot a couple of whitetail deer with my 22-250 and it works VERY WELL. My longest deer kill to date was with a 22-250; one shot through the lungs at 360 yards. Meat damage in both deer I shot was certainly no worse (actually less damage) than those I've shot with such rounds as a 30/06, 270 Win. & 308 Win.

Thanks for the suggestions guys. With regard to my initial calibre choice:

Police forces attitudes vary here in UK..i have to say that my old force was very supportive. So, before moving i made sure that i had a slot on the cert which was different and distinct from the others - thereby eliminating the possibility of refusal due to duplication. For that and my intended usage i chose the 22-250.

I did have a 243 once which i hated but i've never considered the 6.5x55.

I've got a 22-250, but have never used it for Reh, heard too many horror stories of entire off bruised, very large outshots, etc. Now if it's no concern how much damage you do, sure you can effectively drop them. I've tried a lot of bullets, and those 70 grainers shoot like buckshot thru mine

So, on that note, I'd recommend a nice 30-06, which you can not only shoot Reh with, but Fox & Red Deer. And if you go hunting other areas (other than France, = 270) for Red or Mouflon or Chamois you've got your hunting rifle, Waidmannsheil, Dom.

P.S. Grumulkin, Roe are at best 45 lb animals. I know in skilled hands many are successful using them on whitetails, but I'd never recommend it for them, especially for those not well versed in .22 cal limitations

The bigger the calibre the more careful you will have to be to ensure the bullet doesn't open too rapidly.

60gr hornady 22cal soft points at 3,300fps worked very well out of my 5.6x50R. I imagine a 22-250 would work similarly.

What did you hate about your 243 - a 22-250 is pretty similar!

Dom is right about blow ups, I have seen some nasty stuff with them 22-250 on roe here in Sweden.

Besides a 22 if it doesn´t expand as expected is a tiny hole in the body of a roe.

Regarding barrel life,

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/gun_columns/notes/0412/#cont

about 1500 according to the man.

I would not like or choose a .22 round for stalking at short ranges, still hunting perhaps.

But that is just me.

/C

quote:

Originally posted by Dom:
I've got a 22-250, but have never used it for Reh, heard too many horror stories of entire off bruised, very large outshots, etc. Now if it's no concern how much damage you do, sure you can effectively drop them. I've tried a lot of bullets, and those 70 grainers shoot like buckshot thru mine



So, on that note, I'd recommend a nice 30-06, which you can not only shoot Reh with, but Fox & Red Deer. And if you go hunting other areas (other than France, = 270) for Red or Mouflon or Chamois you've got your hunting rifle, Waidmannsheil, Dom.

P.S. Grumulkin, Roe are at best 45 lb animals. I know in skilled hands many are successful using them on whitetails, but I'd never recommend it for them, especially for those not well versed in .22 cal limitations

Another vote for the 6.5 x 55, I use mine for everything. I've never had too much meat damage using it on roe and is capable of taking Red hill stags and it does substantially less damage than a 243. I shoot 140 grn sierra gamekings with 43grns Vit 160 at about 2850 fps shoots flat enough for shots out to 300 yards I'd imagine although I've never shot anything over 235yards with it.

There is not a lot wrong, as you have already a 308 and reload for it, in going with same calibre but in something a bit more suitable to tramping through woodlands.

The internet, especially the www.guntrader.co.uk website is awash with cheap 308 rifles, many with 'scopes etc., etc.

quote:

I stalk roe and reds which require different bullet weights

That's news to me! If you want a one gun then try 270 Winchester with 140 grain bullet. In mine 52.4 grains Viht 160 gives 2857 fps. with 140 grain Hornady Interlock.

Again it may be unfashionable but internet site I mentioned has great choice of 270. It's also with 150 grain bullet DEFRA minimum for wild boar if that ever becomes a consideration.

I also use the "one caliber fits all" -- for Roe, Red, Boar = 30-06, 180 gr A-Frame bullets. I think the bullet has as much to do with the equation as the caliber used, my combination does a very effective job on all without excessive meat damage, Dom.

As I see it you´re looking for an excuse to but a new gun -something we need to respect!

I´m all for the 6.5x55 or why not a .243?

Even a 30-30 might be interesting.

I use a 6.5x55 and like it alot, but I would stick with heavier heads (129gr or more) as lighter heads in the 6.5 can cause a lot of meat damage. however I know a guy who shot a 16 point Red (the largeist ever recorded in Ireland) with 100gr .243!

On the new revier I got this year we shot about 40 roe deer. Of course 30-06 was too big and caused way too much meat damage (I have to sell that stuff you know) and the 22-250 was way too fast also, and caused a LOT of hematome (bloodshot meat).

So we have been experimenting with what we think is the ultimate roe deer cartridge, and we have some mixed results.

As an example, we want to try some 22 caliber cartridges, but we are having a difficult time finding true non-varmint 22 caliber bullets. The only ones we found were the 60 grain Nosler partitions, but roe season closed before we had a chance to shoot more than 2 with them. More results this year.

The 6mm BR caused a lot of bloodshot meat also, but it might be because of the poor selection of hunting bullets, and a nosler ballistic tip was used. I really didn't think that this would be a good round because of this varmit bullet. I was right

The 6.5 X 55 was great, but the shooter who used it only shot 1 so we don't know enough to post results.

The .308 was ok as long as no bone was hit, otherwise it caused too much hematome.

This year, I am going to try... yes, ... it is hard to believe but.... this year I am going to try a few roe deer with a good old Murkan thutty thutty (30-30). I think this will be slow enough and big enough to knock the roe deer over at over 150 meters (about the max we would shoot) and slow enough to not cause lots of meat damage.

If that doesn't work well then I'll stick to the 7 X 64, but it really causes a lot of bloodshock if you hit a bone.

Just my two cents worth.

Murkan Mike

mike

the best caliber i have used for roe without meat damage is my 375 win. a nice flop dead effect and you can eat right up to the bullet hole.

best

peter

scotsgun
I find
my blr 81 u/l in.308w does the job out to 200 m
and for woodland stalkeing i hope to use my newly bought .444 marlin out to 150 m when i get time to play with it.

Bob

I read a slightly off-the-wall but interesting article a few years back. the guy was trying to come up with the ultimate woodland roe rifle, objective was instant kills with minimum meat damage.

The eventual result was a Ruger No1 re-barrelled to 30/30win.

The guy made a lot of sense.

quote:

Originally posted by Claret_Dabbler:
I read a slightly off-the-wall but interesting article a few years back. the guy was trying to come up with the ultimate woodland roe rifle, objective was instant kills with minimum meat damage.

The eventual result was a Ruger No1 re-barrelled to 30/30win.

The guy made a lot of sense.

Similar approach here: I got a 9.3x74 R barrel for my BBF95 and download it to 650 m/s with a S&B 12,5 gram SPFP, imitating the old 9.3x72 R cartridge.

Regarding "bang-flop-capacity" and meat preservation this is for me the ultimate roe deer load up to 100 meters. You can basically eat everything up to the very bullet hole.

I think you just need to be a little careful with whats been said.

First off it's tissue damage and bleeding that causes the demise of the deer. It requires a certain amount to get it to fall over. Minimising meat damage is a noble desire but my experience is that big slow bullets can result in some spectacularly long death runs (longest a muntjac has ever run on me was a 286gr partition out my 9.3x62)and slowing down 22 centrefires can be completely disastrous in that respect too.

Second woodland stalking is rarely only short shots in thick cover. Some rides are long, also don't you ever sit on a field on a woodland edge for first light before heading into the wood or move out of the wood to look onto a field as the light fades in the evening. I know I certainly do and the thought of having to worry whether a doe or buck was 140 or 180 yards away as one surely would with some of the loads suggested would not fill me with joy. There may well be a specialist niche for sucn loads but IMHO they are far too limiting for general use even for use mostly in woodland.

Finaly it's quite likely that you're going to be shooting at portions of a roe in woodland. I would disregard all thoughts of quick handling etc. When the buck looks over his back at you just prior to running off you'll want muzzle heaviness and a light trigger to place that shot where it will cleanly kill. Generaly you have less time in woodland stalking so muzzle heaviness and a light trigger will assist in damping out the imperfections that added haste will bring to your shooting.

Good luck