I've a query! Assuming that I can buy and obtain the loaded ammunition equally easily and for the same price. Which is the "better" cartridge in a bolt action rifle? .280 Remington or 7x64?

Buying both is not an option!

I am hoping that some of our continental cousins here who will have experience of both will be able to give an opinion. In terms of performance - I will be mostly handloading - and which works best through the rifle.

In actual fact because I can source American cases I think that beyond the initial sourcing of the dies that the .280 Remington cases will be half the cost of the 7x64 cases.

Am I also right that in a "like for like" bolt action any loading data for .270 Winchester will in fact be safe in a .280 Remington?

.280rem gives you very little over the bog standard .270 apart from increased reloading costs.

If its performance gain your after a .270wsm would be my choosen route.

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Originally posted by enfieldspares:
I've a query! Assuming that I can buy and obtain the loaded ammunition equally easily and for the same price. Which is the "better" cartridge in a bolt action rifle? .280 Remington or 7x64?

There isn't going to be two bits worth of difference between the two, assuming handloaded ammo. The CIP max pressure is marginally higher for the 7x64 (3600 Bar) vs the .280 Rem (3500 Bar). But in a strong bolt action, you can safely load both to the same pressures. The lower, nominal pressure of the .280 Rem probably comes from that caliber orginally being chambered in semi-auto rifles.

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In actual fact because I can source American cases I think that beyond the initial sourcing of the dies that the .280 Remington cases will be half the cost of the 7x64 cases.

To me, that would probably be a good reason to lean toward the .280 Rem, others may see it differently. Can the two cartridges be obtained in rifles which are equally attractive to you?? Otherwise, the rifle as opposed to the cartridge may become a determining factor...

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Am I also right that in a "like for like" bolt action any loading data for .270 Winchester will in fact be safe in a .280 Remington?

Well, you can't use .270 Win load data for a .280 Rem, but in a strong bolt action rifle, you can load a .280 Rem to .270 Win pressures. Was that what you were getting at??

- mike

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To me, that would probably be a good reason to lean toward the .280 Rem, others may see it differently. Can the two cartridges be obtained in rifles which are equally attractive to you?

Yes. I can buy .280 Remington cases at £35.00 per hundred whilst 7x64 will cost me £70.00 per hundred. The two rifles would be equally attractive in terms of barrel length, magazine capacity, having iron sights, and style of stock.

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Well, you can't use .270 Win load data for a .280 Rem, but in a strong bolt action rifle, you can load a .280 Rem to .270 Win pressures. Was that what you were getting at?

Not quite. I have not explained it very well. In essence if I see that in a .270 I can load a .277" 150 grain Hornady BTSP with XX.XX grains of Hodgdon 1234 powder can I assume that I can just load a .284" 150 grain Hornady BTSP with the same powder charge and same powder make in my .280? What is the CIP maximum pressure for .270 Winchester?

Thanks!

I would not choose a rifle from the brass price, since, with a correct handloading, 100 cases will last a looong time; the difference in performance between the 2 cartridges is VERY small. I would choose the rifle that fits me better and that I like more.

I agree with Wildbore. Lou

I would base it on this one fact. Where can you buy ammo if you are 50 miles from home and need a box or two for a hunt.

I am going to order a new Browning X Bolt in 280 for that reason alone, but I also have a Sauer 202 barrel in 7x64 on order.

When I lived in Italy and Spain 7x64 was always on the shelf, but never did I see a box of 280.

In Britain it might be reversed.

I tend to pick cartridges based on who makes brass. If I can't get high quality brass I won't pick a cartridge.

The 7x64 is made by Norma, RWS, Hertenberger, Remington, Federal and several other companies.

The 280 is only made by Norma, Winchester and Remington.

So both are good canidates as both are made by quality companies like Norma.

I am with everyone else pick the rifle and then decide what cartridges it is available in.

I hate the 270, and I would never pick a cartridge like the 270 WSM as the brass quality is low from the three companies that make it. If I wanted a 7mm and more power I would pick the 7mm Remington Magnum.

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Originally posted by D99:
...I hate the 270...

There, there now Seth, it can't be as bad as all that!

I once talked to a guy in North Central Montana, and he was also less than overwhelmed by the .270 (Win). His reason: he thought it excrutiatingly boring that every house he would visit out on the prairie, would be guaranteed to have at least one rifle chambered thus. I had another MT friend who claimed he would *never* shoot (or own) a .30-06, just because everybody else had one...

I guess variety is the spice of life... To me, however, very common cartridges have a HUGE advantage: the ability to pick up ammo anywhere along the way. With that in mind, surely you should LOVE the .270!
- mike

Mike you are right about that, the 270 will be on the dealers shelf even a Limey one.

I tend to think of the 270 as a damn fine fox and coyote gun!

I adore the 30-06 the 308 is growing on me, and I like the 8mm's. I have a 8mm Remington Magnum, am a fan of the 8x57 to the point that I am going to order a Sauer 202 barrel in that caliber.

I even own a 270, it's a Steyr-Mannlicher full-stock Luxus. The one with the single stack metal magazine that holds three rounds. And the gun is accurate, just not my cup of tea, but if it was a 8x57, 7x64, 280, 308, 25-06, it would be perfect!

Yes I am a Neanderthal, but at least I know it!

I agree with some thoughs here; to me, the 270W and WSM (I own both) are good chamois/roe deers cartridges and I've never used them on anything bigger. My boar/red deer cartridge is the 300WM.....

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Originally posted by enfieldspares:
In essence if I see that in a .270 I can load a .277" 150 grain Hornady BTSP with XX.XX grains of Hodgdon 1234 powder can I assume that I can just load a .284" 150 grain Hornady BTSP with the same powder charge and same powder make in my .280?

The answer is NO.

quote:

Originally posted by enfieldspares:
....In essence if I see that in a .270 I can load a .277" 150 grain Hornady BTSP with XX.XX grains of Hodgdon 1234 powder can I assume that I can just load a .284" 150 grain Hornady BTSP with the same powder charge and same powder make in my .280? What is the CIP maximum pressure for .270 Winchester?

You will find a good amount of reloading data about the 280R and 7x64, so, why guess?

I shoot both and performance-wise, there is absolutely zero discernable difference between them when using the same bullet.

In choosing, others here have already given you good advice.

Anyone who thinks there is a difference in performance between the 280 Remington, the 7x64 and the 270 is dreaming!

The big difference between the former two is logistics, that is availability of components and factory ammo on the shelf of your store.

For that reason it does not make sense to own a .280 Rem in Europe nor a 7x64 in the US.

It makes sense to own and shoot whatever cartridge that makes you feel good. I have both the 280 and 7x64 and find components easy to find for both in the US thanks to the internet. Ballistically, there isn't any practical difference. Lou

Why not go the whole hog and get a .280AI

http://www.angelfire.com/ma/ZERMEL/280AI.html