What would you use for culling roe deer/red deer calves? I have been using a 7x64 which is a bit of an overkill. Would the 243 Win. be a better choice? Shots are mostly within 200 yards.

Anything in the medium 6mm to 6.5mm class would seem ideal to me for this application.

If you want to use a bigger round, no harm in that. I have shot Muntjac with a 270win and they were fine - ie, the carcass was not badly damaged.

I use a handgun in .257 JDJ which runs a 100 gr. bullet @ 2620 FPS, and has performed perfectly. Based on that , I think a .243 Win. would be plenty.

I would say anything from 243 to 7x64 would be fine and I consider something similar to 6.5x55 to be ideal. Personally I would rather use 7x64 then .243....but that just my opinion. I once shot a Roe deer with my 338wm and the exit wound was the size of a football ! (not recommended)

The .243 is a very good roe deer cartridge with harder bullet like the Nosler Partition, Lapua Mega or similar. I load them for a friend and he likes them a lot, very precise, long reach, good killing and little waste of meat.

Our neighbours in Austria and in Spain also shoot a great lot of red deer with the .243, if you hit them well, this caliber is absolutely good for culling.

Personally, for shorter distances I feel that the 12,5 grain 9,3 mm SP at 670 to 700 m/s can't be beat.

243 win is very good for Roe, but with the caveat that use a deer bullet and not a varmint bullet. I use Rws 100gn The latter cause a lot of damage without necessarily penetrating to the vitals. I also use a 7x65r with 140 gn hornady soft point. To be honest neither I nor I suspect the deer notice much different. I suppose the 7mm tends to knock them off their feet and then they kick till they bleed out, whereas with 243 they run 20 to 30 yds before collapsing dead. All sits are behind shoulder / through shoulder heart / lung shots.

Oh to use my 6Br pistol on roe deer

I, Personally consider the .243 Winchester THE Roe Deer cartridge Supreme (w/correct bullets, as SR20 mentions); but you've altered the parameters with the inclusion of Red Deer Calves & Culling. The Red Deer're much-o more robust than the fragile Roe but again, a .243 Winchester will suffice with the correct bullet. I've used 85 gr. Nosler Partition, 85 gr. Sierra HPBT Game King and I've taken a BUNCH of Roe with the mundane Speer 85 gr. SPBT, too. Right now, I'm working a coupla boxes of antique Norma 100 grain semi-spitzers (manufactured prior to bullet monikers) and they're performing spectacularly.

Having said that, you mention Culling which is in itself another Kettle-of-Fish altogether from the standard Trophy Roe Buck boiler-room chest shots. Sorta throws all the Rules out the Window - whatever works.

Key with Roe unlike the Red Deer Calves is that a behind the elbow X-Ring shot that hits any part of the off-side shoulder most likely results in massive carcass (shoulder) damage; after all they are a very fragile small Deer. This not the issue w/Red Deer Calves.

.22-250 is too fast w/any bullet I've tried for Roe Deer; horribly mutilated & blood-shot carcass' with even the toughest bullets.

6.5's I've little experience with but if Brian says O.K, then he definately knows what he's talking about.

25-06 may be good; w/110-120 grain brand name bullets, not fragile <100 grain varmint stuff.

I've got a 7x57R that I would consider optimal and it'll get a work-out this year.

After much prose above - If I was going to go "Culling" Roe Deer & Red Deer Calves; a .308 Winchester w/150 gr. Sierra, Nosler or CT bullet is what just keeps popping into mind .....

Have Fun with your decision.

I have some ground that I help to manage and can be shooting anything from a young Muntjac wieghing 15lbs or less to a 500lb+ red stag.

My 1st Choice is a .25-06 and 115gr Ballistic Tips.

2nd 243win using 70gr Ballistic Tips

But that is just because I already have them and they are very effective.

Anything in calibres from .243 to 30-06 will be fine.

If starting from scratch knowing what I know now I would still have a 25-06 but would be tempted by a 260 or maybe a 25souper or maybe a 280 or.....................................

Never ask stalkers about calibres if you want a concensus of opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerry:
After much prose above - If I was going to go "Culling" Roe Deer & Red Deer Calves; a .308 Winchester w/150 gr. Sierra, Nosler or CT bullet is what just keeps popping into mind .....

Have Fun with your decision.

Gerry my friend, you got it right again
You just described my Roe/Red, rifle/calibre combo: a 308 Win with the 150 grn Nosler PT.
Remember my lightweight Kimber in 308 Win?

I have experience of shooting roedeer by 22lr, 22-250 14" twist, 22-250imp 8" twist, 243, 6,5x284, 338lapua, .45 blaser and shotgun. And i have to say that my choise is 22-250imp with 8" twist and 75gr swift scirocco by little less than 1000m/s muzzle velocity.
This is best rifle for this kind small game. I really love use it and killing power is good. Fast bullets kill quickly and its not makes so much damage if you just use good bullets. Rifle is really easy to shot in any position and trajectory is really straight under 250m distance. When i hunting area where i shoot more than 300m distance then my decide is that 6,5x284 but less distance that 22-250imp is much more better.

I shot two roe deer with the Barnes 45 grain .224 TSX and a .222 Remington. This it seems is also a very recomendable combination.

I very much hope that it's 1st of May ASAP!

I've had bad experience with the 224 cal on roedeer. Too small wound channel, too little blood..

The 243 with 95/100 gr bullets is fine, or the
6,5x55 with 125-140 gr bullets at moderate vel is just perfect

m

Thank you all for your input. It seems I have to hunt separately the two species. I own a Ruger MK II in 270Win-130 grain bullet for red deer. 243 Win. would do well for roe deer culling. Oh hell...good excuse to buy a new rifle.

Realistically any caliber from .22 centrefire upwards to .30magnums will do the job on both of those animals.

The limitations of the .22 & 243 is that many bullets are designed for varmint/foxes and so you end up with carcass damage or at worst penetration issues, but this is not down to caliber it is down to bullet choice for the application.

Having shot many deer with the 243win behind the shoulder I have to agree to its effectiveness on virtually everything in the UK apart from big reds and sika stags which I personally feel warrant a slightly heavier bullet. For shooting all the other species including bigger Fallow bucks, & red/sika hinds it is ample.

However as a secondary concern to just the killiing power of the cartridge, when I consider the issue of carcass damage two things come to mind:

Firstly I have to say that the 260Rem with 140gr partitions is just superb in effectiveness near or far and carcass damage is negligible from all angles. I have it as my go to rifle because I like the gun itself, but secondly the 308Win just reigns supreme in terms of versatility and just pushing through a carcass while limiting the damage to nothing more than necessary. I've shot Muntjac with it that have just skinned off nice and cleanly and all I loose is the offside shoulder and on Roe and similar small sized game like impala ewes, warthogs and black-buck I got the same results. I'm shooting 168gr TSX at moderate speeds.

Ithink the point is that I usually aim to shoot a heavy for calibre bullet at moderate speed and on that basis for Roe and Red calves I be happy to carry any of the 6.5's 7mm or 308's.

K

Kiri, you and I both know that "260 rem" is the correct answer to nearly every question of this type asked....

I just don't want to wheel it out every single time....

Good because it's not!

As others have said anything between the 243 and 9.3 ( Thanks DUK, my fellow supporter of the heavies ) will do the job.

You don't say if you are going to be shooting on the hill or in forestry.

If you are going hind culling with a trophy roebuck in there somewhere on the hill then I would say use your 270 with 150 grain bullets. Meat damage isn't a consideration for you I suspect and the heavier bullet will slow down the 270 some whilst keeping a nice flat trajectory with a good high bc bullet.

This will give you the flexibility of long range and ample power in a package you are already familiar with. It will be a bit hard on the roe. My advice in this regard is shoot to go to a heavy tough bullet as they seem not to encounter sufficient resistance to blow open quickly and tend to leave small exits with massive internal damage. You can take this principle too far however. In my case I have found premium bullets at ~2800 or heavy conventionals at ~2500 to good killers and easy on meat.

If you are going to be shooting in the lowlands, shots will be shorter and your roe damage problems bigger but IMO you would want to move to a slower bullet rather than a smaller bore in these circumstances.

IanF on this board, who shoots more roe than most I know, notes that his 7x57r with 175 grain soft seems to drop roe faster and with less damage than say the .243 the majority of his clients turn up with.

I use a 30.06 and with a plain jane 150gr speer ( loaded down a little to 2800) or a 180gr hornady at 2500 the meat damage is good and they don't go far.

Stay away from bone, it doesn't seem to make much difference what load I use if I tag the shoulder bone on the way in, they all do a number on them.

Best luck.

A

quote:

Good because it's not!

Amir,
Thanks for having the B***s to stand up to Brian; that Euro Forum neighborhood 260 Remington Bully!

Rightly so, because if he watered, fertilized & gave those 260's some sunlight; i.e., the same attention as Sausage & Bacon - they'd grow up to be a healthy .30/06 Sprg.



vgm ....
Purchase a new Boomer to humor yourself; not on the advice received from this buncha Armchair Bwanas. Have fun w/your Culling.



Oh, did anyone mention the 7x64 Brenneke would work just fine, too!

I'm hurt. Bully?

I am away to huff and drink green beer....

quote:

Originally posted by Gerry:

quote:

Good because it's not!

Amir,
Thanks for having the B***s to stand up to Brian; that Euro Forum neighborhood 260 Remington Bully!

Rightly so, because if he watered, fertilized & gave those 260's some sunlight; i.e., the same attention as Sausage & Bacon - they'd grow up to be a healthy .30/06 Sprg.



vgm ....
Purchase a new Boomer to humor yourself; not on the advice received from this buncha Armchair Bwanas. Have fun w/your Culling.



Oh, did anyone mention the 7x64 Brenneke would work just fine, too!

He certainly "fertilised" that 260 case he showed us at Livermere!

You know, the one with the slight primer issue....

quote:

Originally posted by Claret_Dabbler:
I'm hurt. Bully?

I am away to huff and drink green beer....

Happy St. Paddy's day Brain.

You big bully!

NO NO NO the 260 is only the pretender to the throne

The thinking mans 6.5 is a .25-06 Rem the .25 has a better BC for the same bullet wieght too.

Come on Gerry now back me up!

quote:

Happy St. Paddy's Day Brain!

+2! Sink a few Pints; wish I could - gotta drive tonight!



Davie,

I'm with ya Buddie.

Yup Mate; those .257's gotta B.C. like a foot-long needle, they fly well (& far, too!)

quote:

Originally posted by DJM:
NO NO NO the 260 is only the pretender to the throne

The thinking mans 6.5 is a .25-06 Rem the .25 has a better BC for the same bullet wieght too.

Come on Gerry now back me up!

SLight correction there Dave, the 25.06 is the thinking woman's calibre of course but had you noticed that 6mm bullets have a better B.C. than .25 bullets for the same weight?

Cannot say I have seen too many 115 or 120gr 6mm bullets amir.

The other down side to 260 is that if it was a good you could by a Blaser R93 or R8 in that calibre.

Oh hang on blaser dont make a 260 barrel

Feast your eye's on these beauties my friend!

Really practical hunitng design

this one is actually meant for hunting...

So ner-ner-ner-ner-ner!

quote:

Originally posted by DJM:
The other down side to 260 is that if it was a good you could by a Blaser R93 or R8 in that calibre.

Oh hang on blaser dont make a 260 barrel

True and fair, because only real men shoot Blasers and Blasers only come in real mens.

Shit, sorry lads.

Please add the word "calibres" after the word "mens" in the final sentence of the post above.

With it inadvertently missing, It appears I'm casting aspersions at Blaser owners.

Such a thing I would never do.

Obviously.

Although I don't have the passport, I seem to fall on the slightly more intellectually challenged side of the fence with regard to BC as my Oirish friend Mr Dabbler.

Anyway, I thought BC was a place you went to hunt moose and bears but is seems I have missed a particular lesson somewhere. From what I understand by piecing various bits together from memory, BC is what alters point of impact when you are shooting a 243 at small game, (lets say fox shaped animals for arguments sake...) and returns it back on zero when checking the rifle on paper afterwards. I think most major scope manufacturers have a BC compensator on the side of the scope that effectively eliminates the effects of BC.

Occasionally when hunting with many of the fine gents of this board I have heard much BC discussion that also has a direct correlation of the impact of BC to alcohol consumption and lack and the BC multiplying factors of geographical demographic. BC coefficient is based in Grenwich and also increases the further west and east you go. Westwards there are dramatic increases in BC that typically are inadvertantly expressed where as the expression of BC as you travel eastwards grows accross Europe and peaks in Iran from what I can see with Italy and greece coming a close second. BC is very popular as a spectator sport in Scandanavia, while south africans and kiwiws are known as BC ninjas.

Of course this is all conjecture and I may be getting muddled with other B's... but I'm off back to the pub for another brand of BC (beer and crisps).

BTW I find BC is typically a gender specific item which perhaps excludes shooters of the 25-06.

K

Off to the Pub???

Sir, after reading that lot I contend you have in fact never left it....

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:
Off to the Pub???

Sir, after reading that lot I contend you have in fact never left it....

I doubt he will get served if he orders his beer in the same rambling fashion as his above post.

As for the 25-06 it is not gender specific there is both a His and a Hers Sako 25-06 at this house.

That's the Kiri I know - I like him that way .....

quote:

Originally posted by DJM:


As for the 25-06 it is not gender specific there is both a His and a Hers Sako 25-06 at this house.

Hmmm,

My only other experience of his and hers rifles is in the hands of the Iranian BC-meister himself with his and hers .30's...

Problem is Amir always seems to want to play with his good lady's, (who incidentally is far too good for him) gun because it's shiny with a pretty stock, (that he keeps talking about polishing...)

If I give any more thought to the impact of BC on on my world and I might end up needing a drink...

K

Shame on you Kiri if you have not managed to sink a GUINNESS today!

Surprised no one mentioned the 5.6x52R...more than enough for roe deer.

quote:

Originally posted by JonP:
Surprised no one mentioned the 5.6x52R...more than enough for roe deer.

Illegal in England!

(hic)

quote:

Originally posted by Fallow Buck:

quote:

Originally posted by DJM:


As for the 25-06 it is not gender specific there is both a His and a Hers Sako 25-06 at this house.

Hmmm,

My only other experience of his and hers rifles is in the hands of the Iranian BC-meister himself with his and hers .30's...

Problem is Amir always seems to want to play with his good lady's, (who incidentally is far too good for him) gun because it's shiny with a pretty stock, (that he keeps talking about polishing...)

If I give any more thought to the impact of BC on on my world and I might end up needing a drink...

K

It's mine and I'll polish it as much as I like.

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:
It's mine and I'll polish it as much as I like.

mate is that what you tell the better half of your household

regarding caliber i am appaled by the fact the you put a fellow euro AR buddy in harms way. roe is way to big and bad to just be shot with those kiddy calibers, you should start with the 9,3's and work your way up hopefully to the 12 bores at least

best

peter

The 243 with 85-100gr bullets was made for roe deer. Lovely flat shooting and very effective. If you can't put it down you hit it in the wrong place.

Reds fall satisfyingly with the 243 and high quality bullets if not enormous, at moderate range with perfect shot placement. I've shot a few and it works well. Partitions also work well on roe but if you move to harder bullets while the reds fall the roe run (lack of expansion).

When you get to larger calibres the bullet choice is vital to avoid too large holes.

For many years I shot roe in large fields with my 6.5x55 and 100gr Ballistic tips. I've also shot a lot of fallow with that bullet and some reds with the 125gr partition and 120gr partition. It is nearly as flat shooting, nearly as good on roe (slightly larger holes) and very good on reds with a little less care needed. With a 120gr BT or similar you truly have an alround calibre.

anything with more then 1000 J muzzle nergy should work...

As I don´t have smaller calibers, I have used what I have in my safe: from .270 Win, .30-06 and even .375H&H - works everything fine, but in case of doubt, a .222 is enough gun for a roe deer!!!

My number 1 caliber for roe deer in my area (timber) is the old 6,5x54 MS with the long 154grs Lapua Mega!
Red deer calves are much bigger and tougher animals, here you find the minimum in the 6,5-class! In Germany the 243 is not allowed for red deers!