I've just got off of the phone to my Firearms Enquiry team and have been told that my application for a 375 has been only approved for Use abroad and on MOD ranges...

On top of that it seems that even though the land check was done and approved the officer in charge later went on to overrule the decision and revoke the approval without having looked at the land.

All in all he has gone out of his way to not approve the variation, so it looks like I have a discussion on my hands.

I hate to say it but this is where BASC are handy and it looks like I need to reapply for my membership.

Rgds,
FB

Looks like a repeat of my situation.

Don't take no for an answer!

My FEO from Edinburgh advised me to put everything in a letter rather than telephone conversations/emails as all the faulty arguments can then be identified and dealt with ON the record.

Good luck, and don't let them get to you.

Gabriel

I've just had my FAC renewed and I was very pleased at the attitude and approach of the FLO...

Historically, North Wales Police had reputation for being "difficult" in these matters, but the PC who visited my house was professional, courteous and more than reasonable. I got the distinct impression that they now follow the Home Office Guidance, where as previously they seemed to have their own rules.

I am in the same boat as youPete. I am just waiting for it to come through the post.

GMP are excellent and seem to have just said yes to everything I requested. I am no longer a member of a club but I still wanted 12g solid slug on my FAC. No problems at all it seems which I was surprised at.

All in all an excellent experience.

FB

Yes the most straight forward and easy route is to contact BASC and let them get on with it. You can then spend your time tending to more important things than wasting your time back and to with no mark FLO's.

Sure you should have it and I'm sure you will when BASC get on the case (I doubt they treat it as the RAC and won't assist on a problem occurring before membership commenced )

It's pretty much essential to have to get a good working experience of the rifle and to iron out problems that might occur in the field. It's also fun (for a while)

But for killing deer it's not necessary or particularly desirable for stalkers to be flinging 300gr bullets about. I for one don't subscribe to the view that all calibres are equally safe or dangerous. Lighter and less well constructed bullets are less likely to ricochet and go less distance with less energy.

From my experience 9.3s are less likely to suffer the police problem

The police arent interested in reloading so even if you say you use 220gn FP of 155gn KJG which is what I use for deer management. Nice flat shooting bullets. 300gn work well but very loud for woodland stalking better for the open hillside.
I had the BASC help me and have no problem with the 375 or the 458.

Mark

I've tried a couple of numbers and I don't seem to be able to get through to anyone at BASC. I ended up leaving a message with the South East Regional Department, with a number to call me back on.

Does anyone have a specific number that I can call on?


1894, I thought of the 9.3, but I wanted a calibre for a double to shoot Buffalo and Ele (potentially in the future). So I was originaly going to ask for a 416 Rigby, but knew I would not get that for the UK so took the 375 as being the comprimise.

The 9.3x74R would have been my worst case scenario but given the ease of buyinh ammo for the 375 almost anywhere I thought it had the edge, aswell as being a generally accepted legal minimum.

Realistically I'm not planning on shooting many deer with the gun, although Boar in the UK , and a couple of driven shoots I have in the pipeline it will be my first choice. However the main thing is that if I want to shoot the gun occasionally, I doon't want to have to travel a 3-4hr return jurney to Bisley and back when I should be able to shoot it on my own land.

We'lll see how it goes but I'm assuming the BASC route will work out in the end.

Thanks,
FB

FB

This is the number for the Firearms dept at BASC.

I am sure you will get straight through first time 01244 573 010

Thanks

Jon

Thanks jon,

I managed to get through to BASC via the switchboard yesterday. They told me that apparently there is no appeal process in law against the conditions on an FAC. As such I don't really likely have a lot of ground but they will try to argue my case.

The main issue here is that I'm not allowed to hold any expanding ammo for the rifle in thiis country as it comes under section 5. Upshot is that I can't shoot it apart from with FMJ heads in this country and even then the legal places ammount to a couple of civvy ranges which are not remotely close to me.

Given that I want a double, If I go abroad and can't get hold of ammo that shoots in the rifle, then I'm up the creek so to speak.

Anyway I'll get onto BASC again when I get the Cert in my hand and go from there to see what they can do for me.

I'll keep you posted.

FB

FB - I feel your pain. I think it is a lesson for us all to get the advice from BASC before the application. They really do seem to know what buttons to press.

The fact that it's a double adds some weight to your argument. Not being able to have the correct ammunition in the UK makes it a completely useless proposition.

1894,

Yes I spoke to BASC again today via the regional office. He said that once the land is approved as it has been (sort of) then I shoud be OK, but they think I will be unlikely to be able to have use on my land as being good reason given my current arsenal... Basicaly the whole thing is in a knot but they expect the Firearms guys to be able to sort it out.

I'm going to get the Cert in my hand so I know exactly what I have and then talk to them next week.

FB
This whole regime must be very frustrating?

You can own a 375 H&H rifle, but can only shoot it on dedicatet rifle ranges and then only with FMJ bullets, have I got it right?

Are you Sussex?

The firearms department at head office is the one to use. They will probably know your FLO.

I really don't think you're exactly over gunned - from memory a 243, 260 and 308? A 375H&H would be fine. I'll drop you a pm.

""So I was originaly going to ask for a 416 Rigby, but knew I would not get that for the UK so took the 375 as being the comprimise.""
So you "comprimised" your choice because of what you thought would happen?
Thats what alot of F/A depts want, so they haven`t got to do anything, and their not put in the position of having to think or to have to help/assist or advise a legal firearms certificate holder !! makes you wonder doesn`t it?
The 416 shouldn`t have been a problem, as you could justify use for it and there IS NO LEGAL MAXIMUM CALIBRE FOR DEERSTALKING IN THE U.K !!!!
the 375 seems to have become a " maximum" calibre that forces will allow.I don`t know why they have this in their mind? perhaps someone allowed one once now noone wants to go above it and set a precedent ( now you seem to live in a litigation soceity like the Yanks now).
I was always pleased when I was in West Mecia, they were very sensible and as long as you had good reason were always very helpfull,well I never had any compalints.

FB,

had you considered the .338 in some shape or form, it would be good for any of the big game.
the FLO shouldn't have an issue with letting you acquire one.

i ended up taking the 416 off my ticket because the
FLO wrapped it so tight with conditions it was a real hassle

The various .338's are illegal for all or some DG in the most common African hunting destinations.. Its the same with 9.3x62mm & 9.3x74mm in some places too...

Alex, you made my point exactly, you yook your 416 off because of the hassle, not fair to you that you had to.
I had my 458 on open ticket with soft point ammunition for deer and boar in the U.K, if there was consistency, everyone would be ok, or I wouldn`t have had it, they should make their minds up

Well I got my FAC in hand on Friday evening and it gets worse...

Firstly, they have removed Fox from my 308.

Then they have removed Vermin and Groundgame from my 243, 308 and the 260 when I get it.

They have effectively removed boar from my ticket completely and the same with goat.

They increased the ammount of Ammo I'm entitled to hold but only marginally. I've been in touch with BASC regarding the 375 but not the other stuff, so I intend to speak with the FLO today then pass it over to BASC.

Last I left it with BASC they think they can do something for me.

Rgds,
FB

Well, I spoke to the Firearms office at BASC. They said that there is no appeal against conditions on an FAC. The result is that if they ask you to stand in the middle of a river wearing a pink Tutu in order to shoot deer then you are obliged to do so...

Another interesting point to take into account is that the Chief officer (Of the firearms licencing dept) is always chosen to be someone who is not involved in shooting sports as te police feels it would result in too loose a hand in the granting of permits.

BASC have asked me to send the old and new condidions through to them before I contact te police.

The saga continues.

Rgds,
FB

It probably doesn't help much but I was told by a Firearms Officer that there is virtually no chance of a prosecution for breaking Chief Constable's conditions as they are not the law but of course renewing your FAC might not be without its problems!

quote:

Originally posted by Pete E:
I've just had my FAC renewed and I was very pleased at the attitude and approach of the FLO...

Historically, North Wales Police had reputation for being "difficult" in these matters, but the PC who visited my house was professional, courteous and more than reasonable. I got the distinct impression that they now follow the Home Office Guidance, where as previously they seemed to have their own rules.

There has been a welcome change of personnel in charge of the North Wales Police Firearms Dept following the forced retirement/leaving of the previous long term encumbent following alledged offences involving unlicenced weapons and anmmunition in his possession. I had a long argument "face to face" with the previous guy about putting boar on my .270 (or not as it turned out). His first reason for rejection was that "boar did not need to be culled", when I pointed out that this was not for him to pass judgement on he switched to saying that there was no provision in the Home Office guidelines for boar. I sent him off for a copy and showed him the section that specifically refers to boar with the recommeded calibres etc and then he switched his argument again and ended up with the phrase "the Chief doesn't want to be a groundbreaker on this".

After two hours of "discussion" he agreed to let me have the variation but wanted to know the landowner's contact information, the police force that had approved the land and almost everything else, as a letter from the stalker confirming my booking wasn't enough. The stalker understandably didn't want the landowner hassled so we agreed that I would use his rifles.

The new guy seems much more reasonable and takes a much more sensible attitude to things.

I have, now, on my certificate "MEDIUM & LARGE QUARRY". These being the types of animals listed as medium and large quarry in the 2002 Memorandum of Guidance. Not that as well as listing the types of animals it also say

quote:

similar animals

in the relevant notes explaining what these categories mean.

Its about time that BASC brought these bureaucrats to book, but unfortunately the rhetoric that comes from Jon Swift has a don't rock the boat attitude..
No Bark!
No Bite!
makes me sick!
Time for a change at the top!
Don't forget to vote at the next AGM..

regards
griff

Hi Griff,

I really believe that if that attitude changes to a more demanding one then BASC wil make both more progress and gain many members back that left it over the last years.

There is no doubt about it that they do a valid job bbut I would hazard a guess that the average Joe feels that they are more interested in putting themselves into a political advisory position & independent training provider that they don't fully reflect the members consensus needs/wants.

I've now spoken to several people there and some are extremely helpful and others are downright sharp verging on rude.

At the moment the jury's out until I see how they handle this situation.

How long has Swift been in charge?

Rgds,
FB

Do we need to start a "Griff For President" Campaign form AR Euro HQ?



FB

It must be said that I think BASC are in a very difficult situation as all they can do is "give" concessions. The green vermin who are demanding this or that to be banned have absolutely nothing at all to give and so have absolutely nothing to lose and even the slightest change in out position is an outright win for them. If hand guns hadn't been banned, for example, it would not have changed their lives in the slightest. So, it is those who fish, hunt, shoot, farm or whatever who are always making the compromises and, ultimately, with each compromise we lose some of the freedom to do the things we love and, in turn, this provides encouragement to the green vermin to make more and more demands upon us. They are winning in small steps, handguns and hunting are already more or less gone and that is only in the last 10 years.

How do you counter that? I believe we should be just telling them to bog off but when political horse trading is taking place it is always bad to be seen to be utterly unwilling to compormise. So BASC find themselves in a position where every time the green vermin make a demand they have to compromise and in so doing they surrender yet another sport, or freedom. Perhaps the BASC feel they have to do this to attract the more "middle of the road" member? Perhaps the best thing we could all do would be to write to the BASC and say "We will support you totally but no more compromises." This might give those at the top more freedom to take the much harder line position that there will be no compromise with the green vermin.

The greens are already on the back foot as their "man made global warming" story is pretty much dead in the water now. Very few believe in it, there has been no science forthcoming to support it but an awful lot to dismiss it, political figures are slowly moving away from it etc. With this in mind it is reasonable to assume that they will focus their energy elsewhere and we might be that focus. When we see how effective they were in obscuring the science, mobilising the world's press and even getting political support for their man made warming lie it really is important that we have a strong position and strong leadership.

I fear that BASC don't want to rock the political boat because at least at the moment they are talking to politicians whereas I believe that the likes of the countryside alliance (who tend to make more noise) are no longer taken seriously by government.

I agree that somehow the shooting lobby needs to be much more assertive with government and this argument has been going on for years in the shooting world in the UK - Remember all the calls a couple of years ago to merge the shooting organisations in an attempt to raise our clout in politics - like the NRA is in the US.

The problem lies with the poitics in this country. This government has perfected the art of spin and can make the most reasonable and law abiding group of people look like complete nutters if they want to - just look at the general publics perception of fox hunting now.

I understand BASC regulary talk to various police constabluaries from time to time in order to iron out misconceptions of interpreting firearms laws, however I think they tend to get fobbed off half the time. This countries policing services have the same attitude as their bosses in government - they listen to the oppositions concerns with a smile on their face then lie through their teeth and do what ever is on your their own agenda!

Its a double edged sword. Make greater demands on government and be ousted by them as "radical gun wielding activists" or roll over when they make you but at least keep talking.

Nige.

Hi all,

Just a bit of an update. I spoke to BASC Firearms today and they seem happy to be able to get Fox, goat and boar back on my ticket for the 308, and 260Rem. all good there.

On the 375 there seems to be a bit of "negotiation" that needs to be had. Apparently the officr in question is notoriously difficult and they are looking for ways around him, however they are confident we should be able to do something here.

BASC are currently going to check the land status before talking to my FLO, so fingers crossed something should materialise soon.

Fingers crossed,
FB

For some strange reason I have soft point allowable on my 375 and 458 Lott for deer, fox and humane dispatch. I asked about goat being added for the 7mm, 308 and 375 and they said no. I said that since the land was mine then a letter from me to me should suffice but the goats were transients on the property. How could I prove I had goats coming on, perhaps I should send the FLO a tupperware box of fresh goat poo. Not worth making a fuss about at present, I could claim the goat looked a bit sick and take the 458 out for a walk

Mark

quote:

Not worth making a fuss about at present, I could claim the goat looked a bit sick and take the 458 out for a walk

Exactly...

FB