I have never done any high altitude hunting so my choice has been on the heavy side in terms of rifle weight. I have also been lucky not to got caught out in a monsoon. We I killed my boar the next day the monsoon hit.

So, my pick would be a Stainless Steel 375HH or 375 Ruger in an laminated stock. A little heavy but not out of place on big boar and Red is about like shooting an elk. I do not think too many people would laugh about shooting an Elk with a 375. Then add moose ( I know not as big as Alaska and Canada but still big) and bear, and I think the 375 fits in well in Europe.

You could sub out the 9,3x62, 9,3x66, 9,3x64, 338wn, or numerous like cartridges most not seen here in US.

On the light side: 270 win in good synthetic stock and Stainless steel.

Again, sub any like cartridge from 260 Rem to 8mm.

For me a controlled round feed and no less than 24 inch barrel.

I am taking a 270 Win Montana X2 next year SS, 24 inch barrel, blended Winchester Model 70 ( trigger) with Mauser 98 (breaching). Intended game Red Stag and Mouflon.

What is your idea of perfect? What are you taking next?

I have seen .375HH used on moose and its works fine in the north we are not so picky about what caliber you use as long its legal 10g bullet weight 2000j. In UK and central europe they think .375 are a elefant rifle and may not like it. .270 work well on moose and red deer its all what u need. A Swedish moose bull may have a carcass weight of 300kg+ Red deer half of what.

Hi

270 will be fine just use 150 -160grs bullets A-Frame or Similar

all round caliber in Europe are 7X64 and 30/06

Cheers

I shoot 140grain accubonds in our 270 Winchesters.

Thank you folks.

I am a strange dude. I like to be a little heavy. But have a fling going with the 270 right now.

What does everyone else like? What are you going after next?

375 H&H / Ruger has been my moose rifles for many years in Norway.
Due to an old shoulder injury, I now us a Kimber 8400 Classic in 338-06 A-Square with 225 Woodleigh PP as my moose rifle.

For red, roe, pigs and fallow, my Go To Caliber is 30-06 Sprg with 180 grs Woodleigh.
I have used this calibre here in Norway as well in Sweden and England to great sucsess.

The 6,5x55, 308 Win and 9,3x62 are also very common calibers for big game hunting.
Besides, you will find a great assortment of the most common calibers, a bit depending in which country you hunt in.

Common ammo you can find in a hardwarestore or borrow of your hunting buddies in Sweden are 3006, .308w, 6,5*55, 8*57is,9,3*62.
In a well sorted hunting store you can find .270w, 7*64, 375HH, 9,3*57, 338wm, .358nm, 300wm.

You may have to make a pre order to get .375 Ruger in a small store.

Common cartridges in Germany are: 270, 7x57, 7mm Rem Mag, 300 Win Magn, 300 Weatherby, 308, 30-06, 8x57, 9.3x62, 6.5x55, 6.5x57, 7x64. Available but not as common cartridges are 45-70, 8x68s, 9,3x64, 375 H&H, 416 Rigby, 416 Remington, 458, 8x64, 8,5x63 Reb, 338 Winchester, 7,5x55, 338 Lapua, 6,5x68 Schuler, 10,3x60R Swiss and all the Weatherby cartridges.

There seems to be room for the 6.5 Creedmoor, as I am seeing rifles in this caliber for the first time, and Triebel and Frankonia both stock ammo.

Of course lots of 223, 222, 22 Hornet, 17 Hornet, 22 LR, 22 WMR, 17 HMR.

Austrians probably have more esoteric cartridges readily available as handloading doesn't require another license.
Beyond that?

My next dedicated rifle for European game will be a 300 winmag.

Some locations need for a little more range and whilst I love my 375, it isn't a great long range platform.

To date the 260Rem has shot everything I have come across in Europe and Africa, but that has more to do with the rifle than the hairy bloke behind it!!

K

Depends on your hunt and what you're after.

For Ansitz, my go to was a Bockdrilling, 30-06 under 20 guage mag with a Hornet on the side. Hung a few tons of game. Almost all shots inside of 100m, often pretty darn dark out too!

Drive hunts, any good bolt, many use semi-autos, I mainly used my R93 with 9,3x62 barrel. Slap a Doctor Optic on it, with a scope in your Ruck, you're set for whatever position you get.

If you're out in the more open fields, say for Red Deer, I shot many with the R93 and 300WinMag. That was also my go to for hunting in the East, where we paid for trophies and meat damage was an after thought

You can make any "work" based on what you have, but the type of hunt you're doing dictates which type of rifle/caliber would be best for the job!

If I was coming from the outside, I'd opt for an R93 Pro in 300 WinMag w/good glass (ex Zeis 3-9x50 with adjustable Illuminated Dot). That combo will take care of any European hunting you'll ever do.

I've hunted for years with Dom, Kiri and Arild and they are very experienced hunters; not just in Europe but globally. Their advice is solid.

When you're a local and have caliber & scope options to select in a dedicated rifle to choose from depending what is on the menu - life is good. If you've got one Boomer to bring across the pond then I would carefully select depending on what the game/hunting situation is going to be; overall for European hunting a 270 Winchester, 30/06 Sprg. or 308 Winchester will do just fine in conjunction with whatever scope is riding atop.

Differences between North America and Europe are ownership restrictions, legal constraints and hunting culture; they are sorta varied depending on game sought and region/country.

If you show up with a magnum cartridge to shoot roe deer - you will definitely get the "WTF-O?" strange look from an outfitter, they are delicate animals. Red, fallow deer, mouflon and Piggers are a different kettle of fish.

For the summer months primarily involving roe deer, with Piggers as an additional target of opportunity; the Blaser R-93 in 25-06 Remington with 100 gr. TTSXs or 90 gr. Hornady GMXs is perfect. My Ruger Hawkeye in .270 Winchester with 150 gr Nosler Partitions also sees a lot of use; especially where I know Wild Boar are also prevalent. For pure roe deer stalking through woodland and open field edges the Blaser K-95 in 7x57R with a Zeiss Conquest 3-9x50 and Hornady 154 gr. R.N.s goes over my shoulder.

For Red Deer situations in the Fall the Blaser R93 in 300 Weatherby (with an A-Tec can) and 168 gr. Barnes TTSXs sees almost exclusive use.

My mountain rifle for chamois is a 300 Win Mag T/C Encore Pro Hunter w/3-15x50 Weaver and 150 gr. Nosler E-Tips.

For the drive hunting season 9.3x74R double rifle or Blaser R93 in .338 Win Mag. or 9.3x62 - I've also used .375 H&H very effectively as a drive hunt Boomer, too.

For dedicated night time Pigger use the Blaser R93 in 9.3x62 with Zeiss 8x56 scope gets the nod - I've got additional optics options with 0x red dot or 1.5-6x30 red dot for those "fleeting" opportunities as well.

I use a private range belonging to one of my gunsmiths and his brass bin on the range where he sights-in new & used rifles contains at least 80% 30/06 Sprg. and 308 Winchester brass and the remaining 20% is 270 Winchester, 7x57R, 7x64, 8x57IS, 8x57IRS, 9.3x62 and 9.3x74R. Of course there is the odd exotic thrown in for good measure, too. I would say that is a pretty standard current cartridge preference for Germany. Other countries may depict their local favorites.

Waidmannsheil.

- Take 8x57IS or .308 Win if you like.
- Top it with 2 best interchangable riflescopes on top scope mounts (one to be used in a twilight with appropriate magnification and bullet drop compensator, 2 to be used for driven hunts on running game).
- Develop a load with dependable bullet.
- Learn to shoot all the above to the best of your ability.

Are there local areas that only allow lead free bullets, or has that silliness been confined to the West Coast USA?

The lead free thing has not reached the point of legislation as far as I know (but I may we’ll be behind the curve on that).

I do remember something mentioned in (perhaps)Norway where forestry interest found that hitting an embedded copper bullet when felling a tree could be quite detrimental to the lifespan of the saw...

K

Kiri, I think that the saw-issue was an argument when only steel shot was legal in Norway.

Now lead is back (thank heaven) exept shooting at, and over wetland, but for how long?
EU are working on another total led ban sayes the grapewine....

Another thing beside choosing the ideal rifle/cartridge combo according to the game, is what has been mentioned already; pick a quality scope suited for the hunt.

My three rifles have scopes fit for the specific use.
One 30-06 for low light / high seat ( 3-12x56 Zeiss Victory), one 338-06 for stalking and driven moose (1,5-6x42 Zeiss Victory HT), and the last a small and light full stock in 30-06 for stalking and driven roe, red and pigs ( 1,1-6x24 Zeiss V6) all with illuminated reticles.

Thanks for that Arild,

I remember Ander's (I think) telling me something a few years back but it may have been on a hunting trip, during an evening in a pub with the odd beer.... You may have even been there yourself!!!

I hope you are keeping well mate,
K

Yes Kiri, that could have been at the pub where we stayed, close to your fallow area down south?
Was it The White Horse Inn or something.
The place with the fireplace and the busty landlady
Gerry, do you remember ?

Jeeez, we should have had a gathering again, even this old man could still down a pint or two

Any time mate,

There are a few roebucks that need shooting at my estate in Scotland. I spoke to Aaron today about doing something next month before the cover gets too high.

It would be great to see you again. I also notice that your memory is still sharp for the things that matter in life!!


K

Federal, State and County (Kries) forest in Germany also require bleifrei ammo.

Most reviers in private holding (doubtly true ownership of the land, but mostly leased from a local government) do not require copper bullets.

Not sure about other European nations.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Are there local areas that only allow lead free bullets, or has that silliness been confined to the West Coast USA?

Arild & Kiri,

Oh Yes, I have some fond memories from the White Horse Inn; especially attempting to dry every piece of clothing I had on during a downpour in a ugh, smallish, Pub accommodation.

A famous Kiri quote ..... "you shot from where?"

It all started in Baldock; Thank you - Kiri.

It was and will remain THE original, true AR Weekend ..... Kiri's Curry, Paul the Copper, 170+ fallow deer on the meat pole, Black Death, many other memories ..... you better believe I will drive all the way across Europe to attend another glorious AR Weekend - what a Hoot!

.270wea....bang flop

quote:

Originally posted by Gerry:
Arild & Kiri,

Oh Yes, I have some fond memories from the White Horse Inn; especially attempting to dry every piece of clothing I had on during a downpour in a ugh, smallish, Pub accommodation.

A famous Kiri quote ..... "you shot from where?"

It all started in Baldock; Thank you - Kiri.

It was and will remain THE original, true AR Weekend ..... Kiri's Curry, Paul the Copper, 170+ fallow deer on the meat pole, Black Death, many other memories ..... you better believe I will drive all the way across Europe to attend another glorious AR Weekend - what a Hoot!

Dude, I have very fond memories of those weekends.

Some excellent shooting and even better company and banter, not to mention lasting friendships.

I remember the doe you speak about, in fact i visited the land owner the other day and laughed to my self as I drove past where you were sat... Considering the night before you told me that you had missed one at 25 m in front of the high seat I was indeed shocked when you showed me the carcaslayingon the grass in the next county!! (Fern found your missed deer stone dead of course...)

I think the other lasting memories is Anders shooting muntjac in a pile on the first night in Sussex, and Brian inhaling smoked fallow loins like it was the last meal on gods green earth!!

Good times for sure. Lets Make a plan to go to mine in Galloway in June and shoot some roe bucks. Arild how you set?

Good times indeed,
K

Man, reading your stories makes me miss still being in Europe. Your trips and stories sound familiar, been on a few trips that were quite similar! Hey Gerry Bud, shoot a Rehbock for me when you go, greetings to Kiri and all, have fun.

.

.243 for roe, chamois, badger, fox

.30-06 boar, mufflon, fallow and reds

8x57 double and 7x65 Kipplauf for everything driven

Now why did I want to buy that 9.3x62 again?

.

I wish there were more rifles available in 9,3x64.

I sat around too long before I got serious and there seems to be a shortage of 9,3x64s that are not marked 98 Mauser or Blaser R93.

My favorite rifle for European hunting is whatever Kiri hands me to shoot.

Nearly standard for the Young hunter (after making the "Jagdschein" today is the R 8 in 30/06 and a big Zeiss or Swaro-scope.

I don´t know whether this is the Optimum, but Blaser has the perfect selling-Strategie! These rifles are perfect killing - machines, but without heart and soul!

I use three calibers with my R8s depending on the hunting conditions : 300WM, 9,3x62 and 375H&H (not really needed but I love it)
There is not (yet) lead ban for rifles ammos in France.

quote:

I don´t know whether this is the Optimum, but Blaser has the perfect selling-Strategie! These rifles are perfect killing - machines, but without heart and soul!

A Heym rep told me that it cost less than $400 to manufacture a Blaser, Sauer or Mauser M03. The other $4000 in price is broken between profit for the company, a very expensive world wide advertising campaign, and dealer markup. A basic model with a plastic stock is about 3000 Euros here in Germany. 19% of that would be value added tax, and I think about 30-35% markup. I reckon dealers get the 3000 euro model for about 1500-1800 Euros.

Especially Heym loves to talk bad about Blaser. However in contrast to many other manufactors Blaser developed their own rifle platform. This costs time and money. There is no other platform with similar flexibility and since the system is so simple you hardly ever need a gun smith.

All other manufactors could do it, too but instead they build rifles based on 100 year old Mauser technology.

Which brings mit to Optics: Again building a high end scope just from material side is again less than 500 Euros and the scope will cost you maybe 4 times of it. But again develop scopes with 8x magnification and those lenses cost a lot of development cost....

So some people prefer a high end glas and a modern rifle and some other hunters prefer the traditional way. Whatever gets your boat floating.

Coming back to the original question: with a .30 Caliber you are pretty much covered for all situations. However the fun of shooting 9.3x62 on a driven hunt isn't comparable with a 30.06.

Cheers

30-06 or 300, everything else is some kind of compromise. I agree.

Heym really nails you to the wall cost wise if you deviate from the 6 basic models of the SR21 and SR30. They also charge 100-360 Euros for a different caliber than their preferred choice.

I don't think anyone at Heym is a saint. I asked for a model with a different twist barrel, and longer barrel in a heavier contour and they told me they didn't like that, and it would be to heavy but for another $1800 they could do it. So Heym really isn't a custom company either, they just produce fewer rifles.

Have you seen the Steel Action rifle? Pretty Nice.

I mostly use a .30-06 w/ 180gr bullets.
About 7 out of 10 hunters shoot the .308.

Recently I acquired a 7x64 but thus far have not shot any game with it.

Though the .30 caliber non-magnums have taken plenty of moose, for moose and bear I prefer an 8mm.
I have a 9,3x62, too, that my father uses for all (mostly cloven-hoofed) game.

For your intended use a .270 should be very good, indeed.
Focus on the sights: if driven hunt, you need a wide field of view (i.e. low magnification or no magnification at all), if twilight hunting, you need a European scope with an objective diameter of 56mm.

- Lars/Finland

Here's my hunting battery :

Drive hunting (running shots at roe-, red deer, and mostly wild boars) :

- fair weather : FN-Browning CCS25 O/U in 9,3x74R



- foul weather : Blaser R93 Off Road in 9,3x62 (+ Mag-Na-Port)


Stalking : Sauer 202 in .30-06 (7x64 spare barrel) and Blaser R93 or Rem 700 Sendero in .300 Win Mag,





Travel kit : Blaser Off Road with scoped barrels in 9,3x62 and .300 Win Mag.

Guys: All great choices. And thank you for sharing. It beats arguing about Muller.

The European bolt actions never really get my attention from a purely aesthetic stand point. I am sure the Blaser is everything folks say it is like the merkel helix. I just can't get past the look.

My Father in Law has a Masuer, 60 something chambered in 338 WM. The only 338 WM Masuet built in that model. It has a really hog backed stock and two piece multilug bolt. It is rather plain looking. That is to say no wired angular lines or spacers. It also has a detachable box magizine and claw scope mounts.

It does point well and shoulder well. Would be perfect for boar, moose, and bear. So the Euro bolts are fine weapons. I just wish they looked more 98 or model 70.

I hunted a good deal in Germany for the 3 years I was stationed there. Took over 30 head of large game..mostly boar and Roe Deer. But also Red Stag Chamois in the Alps, and Mouflon.

Hunted exclusively with a .270 Winchester with 130gr Remington Core-lokt because that's basically all the Rod & Gun club sold.

Never lost an animal. And never needed more than one shot. Except on a couple days when I shot running wild boar.

Stag are big but they aren't elk and they aren't 900-1,000 pounds...like some bull elk can get. While moose can also be big they tend to go down fairly easily for their size.

If I were going back I'd take a .270 or 30-06 in a heartbeat,

quote:

So the Euro bolts are fine weapons. I just wish they looked more 98

Mauser 98 are a european bolt action.

I know. I meant the modern, gizmo looking push feed Euro bolt actions.

The one I like from a looks perspective of the Modern Push Feed Euro guns is the Masuer Model 12.

Yes m12,m18 looks nice and they are cheap,they are trying to take some of the market from Tikka and Sako.

After using many things I go back to a R8 Blaser .30=06 all the time

I use a 243, 7x57 and 7x65r. If I were to keep just one it would be the 7x65r and have shot lots of Roe, red, foxes and a couple of wild boar with it.