I thought airports in Africa were disorganized and impossible to deal with but they cannot hold a candle to lunitics who run and work at London. Set back and listen to my tale.

I arrived at Inverness a small airport in Scotland and checked my rifle and duffle with no problem as all my paperwork was in order. I carried a backpack and a shopping bag on the small jet to connect to London. All is well.

When I arrive at London I collect my duffel and a security guard carries my rifle case to customs to check the serial numbers, all is well to this point. We come out of customs and go up to the first class check in counter and an airport employee directs me to the check in counter telling me I can only check 2 bags, which is fine, a rifle case and duffel. I get to the counter and the lady tells me she cannot take my rifle case up here, I must go back down to the basement and check it in a special area. So I go back down to a room beside customs and check my rifle thru to Atlanta. I go back up stairs and go back to the same check in lady and check my duffel. She weighs it and says its overweight. I said no problem as I knew it would be and was ready to pay the fee. I was told there was no fee, no overweight bag could be checked, I would have to unpack some weight. I asked her where was I supposed to put it as I only had one bag. She told me to run down to a luggage shop and buy another bag. Now the lad who told me initially I could only check 2 bags was there also so I asked him " did you say I could only check 2 bags " he said " of course I did, but you can always pay for an extra bag." I turned and looked at the check in lady and asked her how could I check a third bag when the rules say only 2 checked bags per person. She said I could pay a fee for a third bag. I asked her if I couldn't just go ahead and pay an overweight fee and check the duffel. She told me that due to " health and welfare " no overweight bags in the UK could be checked in. I asked her to explain and she told me the baggage handlers union put in their contract that they did not want to have to lift heavy bags. This was never mentioned in Scotland !! So I asked her if she was sure I could check three bags, she said yes. So I run down to the shop, pay 70 pounds for a small bag and unpack enough clothes from the duffel to make it under 32 kilos. I check the third bag, my duffle and she looks past me and does not ask for a dime for the " extra bag " and says " next please ". Beside the check in counter there is a large metal sign that says you can only carry on one bag and a shopping bag and they have to fit inside a metel sizing box. Both my carryons pass the size test and I go down to the final screening. I am with 2 couples who also hunted with me. I get down there and an old man with a beard and a cane ( a screening officer ) asks me who I am traveling with, I ask him why and he says ONLY ONE CARRY ON ITEM PER PERSON ALLOWED ON THE PLANE !!!!!. Thinking quickly I tell him my wife is with me and she only has a small purse can she take my shopping bag, he says " yes that will give you only one carry on " I should have seen it coming, now realize this is not my wife, but a wife of another hunter in my party. My wife was at home. I go thru the metal detector and he sticks his cane out at my new " wife " and tells her she cannot board as now she has TWO CARRY ONS COUNTING HER PURSE !!!. He set us up. Well her real husband takes her little 4x4 inch purse and sticks it in his backpack and I look at the guy and he waves us all through. As far as he knew a total stranger just took my " wifes " purse and stuck it in his pack. How many laws did that break, but he was satisified that he had screwed with us long enough and on we went, just getting to the plane as the door was being shut and just got on. I asked several plane crew members and other passengers about their carry ons and they all were allowed 2 items each, go figure.

I have never seen a more FUBAR place than London airport. far worse than any Africian airport I have been in.

The screw ups going into Scotland at London were just as bad, a total bunch of idiots at London.

I think I have made my last trip to the UK

Some folks just like to have fun at the expense of our transatlantic cousins thats all!

Seriously, the HSE policy for limiting single items of luggage to under 70lb has been around for a while, and it will be in your booking info and/or on the airline website, and its really down to you to be aware of the rules before you fly...

The airline employee could have hit you for the charge for the extra bag, but obviously decided to look the other way, so i don't know why your complaining...

As to the security inspections and hand luggage allowences ect, that is a bit of a shambles at present but is supposedly returning to normal shortly....

Regards,

Pete

Naw Pete, there is no way to defend what happened. Instead of me learning the rules how about they learn them first. See there was no trouble with the bag going over, packed with the same items, hunting gear, and it went thru just fine. The weight was never mentioned. It does no good to learn rules if they are made up as we go along. One employee tells you one thing, and another tells you somthing else who do you beleive, and what good are written rules.

As far as me not paying for the third bag, she just forgot, another instance of incompent actions. Why is the first carry on sizing one size, and the next one half that size ? Guess how I got around it. I took things out of my pack, layed them down beside me in plain sight of the screener until my bag fit into the smaller sizing box, it went in, he was happy and I just put them back in my pack enlarging it to the original size and went on with his blessing..........makes sense to me...........JJ


No matter how you paint it its just a goatf*%(. ................JJ

JJ, I travelled through UK airports several times in the past year with firearms. There are several things to bear in mind when doing so: you are dealing with people who are not very well paid, their training is poor, staff retention is crap, they are treated like rubbish by management (in some cases this may well be deserved). Also, they don't see too many firearms in the average month, they will usually be city dwellers who may be actively hostile to you.

Most of the current excessive security arrangements have been imposed on us by the US government following recent terror scares.

You are just going to have to suck it up.

JJ, you have just got to accept thats the way the world is today you can expect a lot of this sort of thing no matter where you are in the world. Different airports will react differently to the recently imposed security regulations. Inverness is my local airport and I can tell you that staff there are well used to, and very efficient when it comes to dealing with firearms. Plus of course, the size of the building precludes you being sent all over the place on varying missions of legislation compliance.

There are many of us who have had similar experiences. I have a replacement knee and three years ago in New Jersey airport I was told the I would have to remove the appliance by one of the two security men at the gate. One of them, not the one who made the request, pointed out to me that although his colleague was not very good he was cheap!

Brian is right, the quality of staff that the authorities are prepared to pay for and the training they receive is crap. So, for as long as these security measures are in place we shall just have to put up with it. Could be a while

John

quote:

Most of the current excessive security arrangements have been imposed on us by the US government following recent terror scares.

Brian,

I'm a Security Professional, unless you're in the same line of work and know the inside story - your statement not exactly according to Hoyle.......

I've flow into & out of London, Manchester, Newcastle & Inverness and taken every Ferry Line across the Channel for over thirty years with rifles & shotguns. At one time (long ago) it wasn't a big deal, now it's (regardless of the correctness of my paperwork or baggage) a never ending Drama. In the past 15 years have almsot never had a visit to the UK with firearms happen the same way twice in a row and my opinion is (like yours) that yes, the employees are overwhelemed (in countless ways) as are the TSA emplyoees in the US.

JJ,

The weight thing for baggage is pretty much a global standard. Baggage handlers (usually established by a Union) aren't supposed to have to lift anything over 30-32 Kgs, (forget what the exact amount is) but I have gotten similar calls on this one; be it in Auckland, Rome, London, Cincinnati, Miami, Johannesburg, wherever......

Gerry, I have no connection to the security industry, I will bow to your knowledge. The sort of things I see reported are that the US will refuse entry at some point in the near future to anyone who does not have a biometric passport. Full passenger manifests have to be sent to the US before a flight can leave the UK. Stuff like that. Certainly a lot of the backlog in early August was as a result of US regulations - this may have been necessary at the time. Of course none of this makes any difference to internal EU flights.

You are right on the inconsistency of the application of the rules. Problem seems to be in UK airports that different people are unclear as to who is responsible for what - airport police, civilian security, baggage handlers(God help us!).

Funnily the best airport to carry firearms through is Belfast. You walk in, present yourself to the security desk. They call a cop who checks your rifle against your premit. He then walks you straight to a secure check-in desk. Your baggage is checked through into a secure area and thats it. Full time c.5 minutes. Same on return, its actually much quicker than travelling minus the hardware.

I'll be flying Dublin to Prague in December - now that should be interesting.

Brian,

You are a Gentleman.

I'm been a traveling hunter for as long as I can remember. Being a US Military Officer opened my eyes to the delights of global travel and the opportunity to see what hunting was available in exotic locales long prior to it becoming vogue & affordable.

I don't get suprised anymore at the curve balls that just seem to come out of no where when traveling with firearms. I prepare myself to accept the surpirses & mysteries that get thrown at me so that when actually nothing out of the ordinary happens I can reward myself upon arrival with an extra pint at the Pub.

I'm all for Belfast and uncomplicated firearms travel, too. It's just the Irish Outfitters I've seen in print don't have much of a reality check on their spendy prices - yet. When they do I'll send you a PM.

JayB, we had no trouble at Inverness at all. They were compentent, polite and all the rules are the same throught the complex, small as it is. Maybe the employees at London need to come to Inverness for training.

As to all the other problems, I don't care what the rules are, I will happily abide by them. I never lost my temper in London, I know that gets you nowhere fast.

The guns were not really the problem at London either, it was the carryon luggage issues. Which should be the easiest to standardize.

But all the trials aside, it was by far the most beautiful country I have ever seen, and the most difficult hunting I have done. Crawling on ones hands and knees and belly for 400 to 600 meters and lay in running water with the wind blowing stinging rain in your face and scope for 2 1/2 hours within 30 yrds of the hinds, unable to move a muscle waiting for the Stag to stand for a shot is pure hunting.

Maybe I'll take a boat next time...........JJ

JJ, you could fly to Northern Ireland, pick up a car, take a 90 minute ferry crossing and you are in Scotland!! You can cut out England completely.

32 kg is pretty much a maximum standard everywhere for a weight of a bag.

However my experience is the treatment by staff of customers is so variable that it can not be predicted. How many times have I got hassled about my camera bag (a day pack) yet other passengers carry several shopping items, bags, boxes, etc in addition to a carry on bag.

The best was when some twit in Perth, Aust after check-in before going to the boarding area, asked to weigh my bag and it was a bit over 7 kg, which he said was too heavy. So I removed one camera, then around the corner just stuck it back in again as did another passenger. Now what I don't understand is how if the daypack and camera goes in the same locker has anything changed?

NitroX

have you noticed that virtually anything you buy "airside" from the airport shop doesn't seem to weigh anything either? It seems once your hand luggage is past the security and check-in you can fill it with bottles of booze to your hearts content!

JJ,

What did you're hand luggage consist of?

Regards,

Pete

Pete, Its a backpack, always packed the same way.

Full size Swaro 10x42 EL's
Compact Swaro 8x10's
Digital camera with case
3-4 magazines to read on plane
Keys, medication, pen, Surefire A2,

The other carryon was a shopping bag with 2 Tain Teapots and a salt and pepper shaker.

I don't think a small pack and a shopping bag is excessive on a business class ticket, do you ?

JJ,

Just curious what it consisted of...

Since the last security scare I've heard several horror stories with regards people having to put expensive kit like bino's in their checked luggage, and they involve various airports both here and in the States...Once the reulations were eased after the initial scare, its seems there was very little consistancy from airport to airport..

Hopefully it will get back to somewhere near normal in the future..

BTW, for my trip to RSA last year, on the outward leg, my checked bag weighed under 25lb and my hand luggage was another 10lb!

I have no idea what you guys pack to get it in excess of 70lb!

Regards,

Pete

JJ,

You are a resourceful and canny operator.

If I were faced with a Kafka meets Catch 22 series of situations like the ones you managed to maneuver your way through, I would only hope and pray to be possessed of your good grace, tact and ingenuity.

You are now, without any doubt, an official, certified and expert inhabitant of the 21st century! Please don't give up on London. They clearly and desperately need your tutelage!

quote:

Originally posted by Pete E:
BTW, for my trip to RSA last year, on the outward leg, my checked bag weighed under 25lb and my hand luggage was another 10lb!

I have weighed everything in my luggage to get an idea and for planning. And still will do it for this trip.

For example, two doubles rifles in soft cases and a shotgun barrel in a patheticly thin rifle case, 15 kg alone. Ammo 4.2 kg. Camera gear (broadcast quality video camera, digital still camera plus long lens, binocluars etc about 8 kg. So that adds up to 27 kg even before an extra pair of boots, clothes etc.

How did you take a rifle, a rifle case, and ammo within a weight of 25 lbs?

In May of this year, before the latest security measures thank God, I went prairie dog shooting in Montana. I did not take any guns with me, I use my pals guns in the States and he uses mine over here, it's just one less hassle. Anyway I was allowed two pieces of luggage to check in, and my hand luggage. I forget the weight allowance, but let's say it was 100 lb. I only used one piece of check in luggage but was informed that it was over weight, not over weight for my total allowance but over weight for one case. I asked why was that not made clear in any of the small print I had read, and for a reply was told where I could pay the excess baggage charge.

For the return journey I purchased another bag in the States and made the trip with an extra bag, more weight and NO excess baggage charge.

You know it makes sense

John

Nitro,

That didn't include my rifle & case...that was a further 27lb as I recall...

Unlike our North American friends, we only get a 44lb allowence in "cattle class", which in theory should include your rifle & case...

Before I left, I was quoted something like £20 per Kg (each way)for excess luggage, so I was keen not go over board with the weight.

As it happens, and as was predicted by a few folks here, the rifle and case weren't actually weighed on either leg of the trip.

In your instance, I can see how rifles, ammo, and camera gear can certainly boost your weight, but I deliberately avoided that..I only took one rifle and a couple of small point and shoot cameras and left my SLR at home.

When it comes to clothes and misc equipment, I don't think you need that much stuff on an African hunting trip..

I can honestly say that at no point on my trip did I want for anything I had left behind and that included the time I spent game watching in a Park before my hunt started.

I actually take far more on short hunts over here as I am outfiting myself so to speak, and we have a wider range of weather conditions to worry about...

Regards,

Pete

quote:

Originally posted by Pete E:
As it happens, and as was predicted by a few folks here, the rifle and case weren't actually weighed on either leg of the trip.

SAA and Qantas certainly did weigh my gun case on the recent trip to the tune of many hundreds of dollars of excess luggage.

Avoid SAA and Qantas if you can help it.