But then you would say that wouldn't you.

Accountability and performance are two completely different things. Credibility only comes with the passage of time matched to performance. What your expectation are has nothing to do with how others perceive you, and management by constraint is never performance conducive. Just talk to the ex British Leyland and current Toyota work forces to find out the difference.

You need to come out into the light.

Did you just agree with my being managed by the constraints of others as not being the ideal situation?, If I have not achieved credibility inside 50+ years, there may be no hope, the perceptions of me by others are tempered by my reasonable expectations, As for the coming into the light, I'm too busy lamping at present. P.S., I could let you have a spare lamp for you to see your way out from the shadows.

quote:

Originally posted by GOONMYSON:

Something of a sweeping statement, there Bert.

You might not care! But then as you have all ready admitted you're merely a hobby stalker.

I'm more of a Hanks Williams and Boxcar Willie fan.

Qapla' and shalom aleichem.

No, I care about deer, it's your driveling attention seeking that leaves me profoundly indifferent.

Still, I suppose there is no telling the stupid.

I am. As they say, the sun always shines on the righteous. I'm just off to top up with more fluids and beef up the suntan protection. I don't want to suffer a bout of heat and sun stroke.

Oh yeah and the original question was

quote:

My question is who or what really controls the deer numbers in the UK. The motor vehicle and poachers or we stalkers?

Bert

Climb back in your pram!

Attention seeking? I'm not the one standing in the corner having a temper tantrum like a spoilt 2 year old. That would be you!

As Forrest Gump would say. Stupid is a stupid does.

Oh yeah and the original question was

quote:

My question is who or what really controls the deer numbers in the UK. The motor vehicle and poachers or we stalkers?

A question that you have consistently been incapable of answering.

Incapable is not the same as unwilling.

I think you will have trouble finding anyone to answer your questions.


Jennaaay.

A competent lamp man can be very productive in even the highest of crops, if he's any good at calling, you just increased your chances, If the rabbit is a milky doe.... tough, same for reynard!

Are claiming that you can call rabbits? If you can is there any chance of a You Tube video of you in action?

Now you really are at it!

Steve I admire you have the stamina to carry on this thread.

BTW I notice you are near Chester

By any chance have you been to Griffen Lloyd Club ?

The Welsh selection shoot will be held there in the next few months.

Just looking for hotels and the nearest one is 20 miles away.

Any suggestions ?

Nah! It was you who claimed to be able to call rabbits from the roof of this ultra utilitarian landie .

quote:

My question is who or what really controls the deer numbers in the UK. The motor vehicle and poachers or we stalkers?

If you look hard you will see a comma between some statements, to anyone with a reasonable command of English this would imply a move onwards in thought train, I was referring to your implied disdain for shooting quarry that may be nurturing a problem for tommorrow!, In short I shoot vermin as that is my chosen discipline, apart from the odd treat of a little deerstalking!

Steve,
Do not Encourage this Moron..

There was an AR member who had as his signature
a rather poignant phrase:
"NEVER TRY TO TEACH A PIG TO SING,IT ANNOY'S THE PIG AND IT CAN'T BE DONE"

I think this is going to be the case with LOONMYSON,oops was that a spelling mistake!

regards
griff

Hey Niel, back when CB/Ham radio was all we had to play with, we also got Trolls looking in now & then, they were called Planks then , I used to amuse myself by burning them out over several hours or days or months, but they always dried up & blew away, just like Clint said!!, Wonder if Saeed has enough space on the techy stuff for it ?

We can ask his brother to go to the server and give us the log in IP address.

With that you can get the location and telephone number of the dial in.

Using "UK-info" disk you can get the reigstered address of the telephone number.

With this information we can address thsi individaul politely in the correct manner on the world wide web siting

Name
address
FAC number
etc

That's assuming this individual is in the UK ?

It it is not the the matter is even easier ...

Call the "Artist club"...........

It is totally different if the owner of the sever is on our side. There is no where to hide.

my grasp on your native tounge is still rudimentary as it is not my native tounge.
That being said in denmark and the other places in europe that i stalk, MANAGEMENT is about keeping a strong and healty population with improving antler size, whereas the underlieing tone from goodmyson sounds more like shooting whatever you see and then some, with no thought for the health of the population.

Culling teams sounds like something from a lousy american movie and i hope i misunderstand the term used.

there will always be those little fiats getting bumped and scratched when out driving. so what, consider it as the deer getting back at the humans talaban bombing style.

question to everybody else but GOODMYSON do you guy's have many of the slaughter minded people over there, to me that is only one step back from the anti's that you have overthere, which is quite disturbing.

MANAGEMENT is keeping the herd healty.

best regards

peter

quote:

Originally posted by peterdk:
my grasp on your native tounge is still rudimentary as it is not my native tounge.
That being said in denmark and the other places in europe that i stalk, MANAGEMENT is about keeping a strong and healty population with improving antler size, whereas the underlieing tone from goodmyson sounds more like shooting whatever you see and then some, with no thought for the health of the population.

Culling teams sounds like something from a lousy american movie and i hope i misunderstand the term used.

there will always be those little fiats getting bumped and scratched when out driving. so what, consider it as the deer getting back at the humans talaban bombing style.

question to everybody else but GOODMYSON do you guy's have many of the slaughter minded people over there, to me that is only one step back from the anti's that you have overthere, which is quite disturbing.

MANAGEMENT is keeping the herd healty.

best regards

peter

Yes Peter they are well distributed around the world, just tap the woodwork a bit & they'll show up!, Bye the way I think your command of English is well advanced, I just wish I had a second language, & then I might feel a little less guilty when meeting like minded people who don't have English!Steve.

"question to everybody else but GOODMYSON do you guy's have many of the slaughter minded people over there, to me that is only one step back from the anti's that you have overthere, which is quite disturbing."

Peter, we have everything in the spectrum from Bunny-huggers to Cervicidal Maniacs. They all feel strongly that they and only they should be in control of Deer Management in the UK. Many of them have tunnel vision and seek to impose their views by any means possible. Of course, each and every one of them considers him or herself as an expert too.

In the UK, Deer management needs to extend beyond the interests of the deer themselves and also the eco-systems they occupy and the financial economics of those habitats (since all land belongs to someone who is generally trying to monetise it in some way) as well as the social impacts such as the Deer Collisions mentioned.

Some conflicts occur when champions of one aspect, such as an eco-system want interventions to protect perhaps Bluebells or Young tree and shrub growth. There is a tendency to devise a solution that resolves these particular needs and then seek to roll it out across the UK without thought for the other considerations mentioned or without percieving them as warranting similar concern.

It is the oft repeated mantra of many seeking to take control that Deer numbers are on the increase and spiralling out of control thus justifying the need for drastic intervention.
This is not strictly true and it is usually the case that, where the habitat supports it, there is local abundance. By the same token there are large areas with very few deer and no signs of increase.

Getting back to your question about slaughter. Yes, it worries the hell of of many of us that there are people like that, out there, with legally held guns!

Peter, I think you've summed it up well and I agree completely.

Look forward to chatting more in November!

Peter,

Your English is quite excellent, bear it no further thought.

I am bound to say that most of the stalkers I have communicated with are sporting men through and through.

There are a few who seem to primarily enjoy shooting as many deer as possible with no regard for sport or populations, save that the population be eradicated and they move on to another patch.

This is done either because they enjoy that sort of thing, or that they wring the maximum number of paying clients out of any given patch.

Then there are idiots.

We may be dealing with an degree of overlap in the latter examples, as far as our new friend is concerned.

Regards,

Amir

Excellent term Peter - well put

Society of Cervicidal Maniacs

quote:

Originally posted by londonhunter:
Excellent term Peter - well put

Society of Cervicidal Maniacs

Plus one from "THE SCOUSER'S" aka verminator's

thanks guys

i do look forward to be meeting you out there hunting, its just everynow and then the pondscum you guys have really makes me wonder.

best regards

peter

P.S regarding the langauge, since english is just a perverted form of nordic i should be abel to speak it right

quote:

MANAGEMENT is keeping the herd healty.

Hi Peter

Many on here will start caterwauling at what I now type, but as they are predominantly recreational stalkers you have to expected that.

Until such times as you are in control of the numbers "management" as practised by the vast majority of "recreational" stalkers is just pi$$ing in the wind. In order to bring about a localised management regime you first initially have to have a cull plan. With out one and if left to the recreational stalkers the deer populations continue to grow ever greater.To the detriment of the habitat and the deer themselves. As it's the usual case of to much bone being shot and not enough breeders.

There are less than 1000 professional full time deer stalkers in the UK, there are approximately 4000 professional full time game keepers. Most of whom shoot deer recreationally i.e. without any form of formalised management plan, if at all.

Despite the claims expressed elsewhere there are no Cervicidal Maniacs at large in the UK. There are cullers of deer with a more rounded view of the world and its realities and there are the cullers of deer who never look beyond the world of their pc monitor or their rose coloured scope lens.

I have been in the world of the hard nosed professional where killing deer is a job of work and done to the best of your ability and targets have to be met. 99% of those who post here could never make the grade or cope with the pressures. I am now a stalker for recreation due to family and health issues. Do I miss the old job , not in the slightest. Do I pretend that I manage deer not in the slightest. I'm a recreational stalker.

Besides as the data shows deer RTA's and poaching kill more than we recreational stalkers ever do.

quote:

Originally posted by Luminere:

quote:

MANAGEMENT is keeping the herd healty.

Hi Peter

Many on here will start caterwauling at what I now type, but as they are predominantly recreational stalkers you have to expected that.

Until such times as you are in control of the numbers "management" as practised by the vast majority of "recreational" stalkers is just pi$$ing in the wind. In order to bring about a localised management regime you first initially have to have a cull plan. With out one and if left to the recreational stalkers the deer populations continue to grow ever greater.To the detriment of the habitat and the deer themselves. As it's the usual case of to much bone being shot and not enough breeders.

There are less than 1000 professional full time deer stalkers in the UK, there are approximately 4000 professional full time game keepers. Most of whom shoot deer recreationally i.e. without any form of formalised management plan, if at all.

Despite the claims expressed elsewhere there are no Cervicidal Maniacs at large in the UK. There are cullers of deer with a more rounded view of the world and its realities and there are the cullers of deer who never look beyond the world of their pc monitor or their rose coloured scope lens.

I have been in the world of the hard nosed professional where killing deer is a job of work and done to the best of your ability and targets have to be met. 99% of those who post here could never make the grade or cope with the pressures. I am now a stalker for recreation due to family and health issues. Do I miss the old job , not in the slightest. Do I pretend that I manage deer not in the slightest. I'm a recreational stalker.

Besides as the data shows deer RTA's and poaching kill more than we recreational stalkers ever do.

We just don't think the sun shines out of your arse that's all.

Why would you be looking at my arse? Is there something I should be aware of here? Jim Davidson speaks for me on such topics.

I think he's saying it should be seen receding over the hill!

luminere

im sure that you mean well, i just find it a bit hard to belive your statments about yourself and your expirence.
to me it sounds like you have a strong urge to have rigid laws put in place, when your society really dont have the best track record of obeying the laws you already got, have you considered helping to educate those less fortunate than you by going around holding lectures etc. i do it a lot and it gives me a whole lot of satisfaction and a great deal of invites for hunting as well.

the data you say supports your claims, are just that, data collected to sway an oppinion to one side or another, you have been asked to present the data but fail to do so.

actually who are you and what have you done. picture evidence is always the best way to show me that i am mistaken.

best regards

peter

quote:

Originally posted by peterdk:
luminere

im sure that you mean well, i just find it a bit hard to belive your statments about yourself and your expirence.
to me it sounds like you have a strong urge to have rigid laws put in place, when your society really dont have the best track record of obeying the laws you already got, have you considered helping to educate those less fortunate than you by going around holding lectures etc. i do it a lot and it gives me a whole lot of satisfaction and a great deal of invites for hunting as well.

the data you say supports your claims, are just that, data collected to sway an oppinion to one side or another, you have been asked to present the data but fail to do so.

actually who are you and what have you done. picture evidence is always the best way to show me that i am mistaken.

best regards

peter

Pete

Well I suppose you can't please everybody. I have no strong desire to see rigid laws in place. I do desire to see a higher level of knowledge and expertise within the UK recreational staling pool. I also desire to see what I consider to be a potentially problematical non dog availability option removed. If the necessitates the application of new laws then so be it. Many shooters whinged like old women when the 63' Deer Act was first imposed. They eventually got use to it.
What evidence have you that we don't obey the laws here in the UK?
Giving lectures and presentations to groups is not my bag. and I have no need of additional hunting invites. The wife would have even more to complain about seeing as I spend virtually 250 days a year engaged in some form of country sport.
No data is ever unbiased you just have to make an informed guess at which you are prepare to give credence too and which toss in the trash can. I don't recall being asked to supply any data.
You'll have to remain unilluminated as I'm not one for taking snaps of things. I find them uninspiring. But I do appreciated the efforts of others.

well lumie

quote:

What evidence have you that we don't obey the laws here in the UK?

fox hunting does spring to mind, as one of those stupid laws made by people that didnt think things through before they got on their soapbox and pushed things into law.

quote:

I don't recall being asked to supply any data

sorry that was my mistake, it were goonmyson that were asked to produce those numbers, i made the easy mistake of thinking that you were the same person.
i will remain uniluminated for the rest of my life then as you so far has only been abel to produce enough statments to make me think you are a peta troll, with no or limited expirence in stalking or doghandling matters.

i will try to ignore your statments from now on.

peter