The roe doe season ended a week ago. After a bit of a rest I spent yesterday creating some new site for high seats and put down some grain feeders on narrow rides to give the roe something to stop for.

As allways happens around this time of year I saw some very nice bucks which will become much much much harder to locate around mid April. This got me thinking. If you saw a buck bigger than anything you had shot before that was legal but still in velvet would you shoot it?

As an example I once didn't and had to wait 18months to see it (and shoot it) again. It was a good Gold both when it was in half velvet and 18months later in the rut. It worked out but I took a huge risk.

I don't know what I would do now....

I would not

Any Serious hunter would NOT shoot any buck or deer in Velvet.

Shooting bucks or stags in velvet is (for the better or the worse) considered unethical in Central Europe. Bucks always look great in velvet, but it can make quite a difference once the antlers are hard and velvet shed. I.e. it can be hard to tell a good trophy from a rather ordinary one.

Let's say you saw what was clearly a good buck in velvet - in season and all. It is obviusly not sure you'll ever see the buck again, and maybe the taxidermist can turn the antlers into a decent looking trophy (colour and all). I still don't think I'd want to walk up to what would have become a great trophy, but was shot in velvet.

- mike

'94

In my book it depends who else has access to the ground. If it's a syndicate or shared ground then I would shoot it in velvet rather than risk leaving it for someone else. If I had sole rights then I would leave it for later. Does that mean I'm selfish?!!

Regards,

Tim

Given the choice I don't think I would. However I have just been asked to take on a bit of land with marauding deer on it, when the new grass comes the deer will forsake the wood and keep the farmers grass under control. Well, it saves his sheep the bother. So this year I rather think that I shall be taking a few in velvet, but not Roe there is only Sika and I think Red on the land.

John

quote:

Originally posted by mho:
Shooting bucks or stags in velvet is (for the better or the worse) considered unethical in Central Europe.

I still don't think I'd want to walk up to what would have become a great trophy, but was shot in velvet.

Mike - very interesting I didn't know that was the case. In the UK it's merely thought to be a waste of a good trophy.

Your thinking pretty much mirrors mine.

In an area with little history of trophies and with the priority being protection of timber I think early (but legal) culling of lesser bucks makes a significant contribution to reducing damage from fraying.

Why shoot it in velvet?

If you don't see it again, thats just one of those things..

f another stalker shoots it when its in hard antler, good for them!

To shoot it in velvet to prevent someone else getting it smacks of sour grapes..

quote:

Originally posted by 1894mk2:
In an area with little history of trophies and with the priority being protection of timber I think early (but legal) culling of lesser bucks makes a significant contribution to reducing damage from fraying.

That makes sense. Reducing or at least controlling populations often calls for measures which would be not even be considered from a more "trophy oriented" view. E.g. if you really want to control populations, you have to shoot does.

I'm about as much a sucker for good trophies as anyone I know, but I have to admit I rarely hang roe deer trophies any longer - unless the ONE should happen to come my way. For a managment buck, which will be selected solely based on management criteria, I see no reason why it should not be shot in velvet. If you are interested in the antlers, it is another story.

- mike

The answer depends on why you are shooting. If its pure sport/trophy shooting then I would leave 100% leave it.
If he's in my newly planted wood in Scotland then I would shoot him before he rubs the velvet off on my trees as part of an aggressive culling program as the wood establishes.

Mark

I have experienced seeing trophy deer before season as well, and I have always restrained myself. All of my places have other hunters around them, so there is always the chance of someone else shooting "my" deer. In the Texas though, the penalty is not worth the crime.

To be honest I don't think I'd shoot him eithe in velvet or not. At least not on my ground.

The biggest Roebuck I've ever see was with PeteE one morning at my place. (I've seen him a few times but not for the last year or so) there's too much rubbish that needs culling to be shooting the few good ones we have.

I know that isn't the case everywhere and if I was protecting forestry he would have to be shot, so I suppose it is horses for courses.

Rgds,
FB

I don't see an ethical issue, only the lack of aesthetic appeal in a set of antlers with velvet still on.

Jeff, here in the UK seasons are very long and it is quite legal to shoot a deer in velvet.

quote:

Originally posted by Boghossian:
I don't see an ethical issue, only the lack of aesthetic appeal in a set of antlers with velvet still on.

To shoot a buck in velvet is OK if you go for the meat. If you are interested in the trophy, let him grow a little older and kill another one, instead, or a yearling doe.

If your neighbour kills it before you have another chance so be it. Next time it will happen the other way round.

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Sullivan:
I have experienced seeing trophy deer before season as well, and I have always restrained myself. All of my places have other hunters around them, so there is always the chance of someone else shooting "my" deer. In the Texas though, the penalty is not worth the crime.

Very important that people realise I am not asking whether people would shoot deer out of season. The season in the UK means that for 2-4 weeks bucks are in velvet but may be legally shot!

I apologize, but I misunderstood the question. I am curious about the taboo of shooting a buck in velvet. Can someone educate me on this custom?

In my opinion there is no taboo in shooting a roe deer in velvet if it is sick or, more over, if the velvet is going to be a wig.

This as many of you know, means a irreversible testicle trauma.

Instead, if I remember well, older animals loose the velvet before the young animal. A huge animal still in velvet should be leaved alive, it is considered a good potential bull. In Hungary, more than probably near to certain, it should be minimum a minus point or maybe more than one. When they get more than five minus points the resort loose the possibility to make the people hunt.

I am on this guide line. But I'm not the Absolute True, any country has its tradiations an specifica habits in game managing.

quote:

Originally posted by mboga biga bwana:
Any Serious hunter would NOT shoot any buck or deer in Velvet.

Unless his family was SERIOUSLY hungry......

Oh...OK in velvet doesn't mean out of season...whew...I was gonna write something pretty insulting. But I would still probably wait until it was out of velvet. I'm not sure if that is something ingrained in me from my youth, or if I simply dislike trophies in velvet... hiho..

quote:

Originally posted by DJM:
Excuse me for being stupid but

Why would you want to shoot a huge Roe Buck?

It's obviously mature

Why do you think people shoot large roe bucks....

Hi 1894mk2,
can you tell me something about the season of roe deer hunting? I do not understand the reason to hunt roe bucks still in velvet.

As I wrote, I'm used to hunt roe deers after they have lost the velvet, and possibly some days after that they have lost it.

Infact I perfer dark trophyes, and the colour is the results of the scratch against the wood and the bush to eliminate the velvet. Moreover I always found really less fine the trophies hand cleaned by the velvet than the naturally scratched on wood and bush.....

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Malinverni:

Infact I perfer dark trophyes, and the colour is the results of the scratch against the wood and the bush to eliminate the velvet.

All of my stalking is to reduce damage to agriculture and forestry.

My trophy hunting has to be incidental to damage reduction. April offers a chance to get on top of numbers. Whilst I can afford to let an exceptional buck go on and can favour better bucks the fact of the matter is that if I were to pass on all bucks in velvet I would lose my stalking in a year.

1894,

You are absolutely correct. The way Stalking is going here in the UK it is often difficult to make generalisations on subjects like this. At my place We can be very selective as the stalking is incidental to the entire sporting rights. At other places I get taken to by freinds, the mandate is just culling. Given that we are talking mainly about fallow there is usually a beast in the herd that lends itself to culling rather than seeing singular exceptional trophies as may be more likely with Roe.

I know some land owners that would gladly have you set up a perimiter mine field around every bit of woodland!!!

FB

I'ts good that people pose themselves this question and weigh up the consequences of their actions, regardless of what you choose to do, you are raising awareness of the issue which is a very imprtant thing for hunters, especially in Europe where for the most part, populations are not soo huge we don't have an effect on them.

Here in Tuscay they have absolutely ridicoulous seasons, or rather season.

A friend braught over a red stag head that would have probably gone 14 points that he shot not only in velvet, but only about 1/4 developed.

They shoot red, fallow, roe, mouflon indescrimantly with regards to antler development, or quality, pregancy or reproductive cycles.

This happens even though each hunter is assigned specific animals of determined sex and age categories.
The organization of it all is a pathetic joke and disgusts me beyone words.

Their "selective" (which is what these ignorant wakers call it) season runs:

From the 1st of Febuary though to the 31st of March - Here we are killing reds (most drop before the end of Feb and roe in velvet. Very few fallow are taken since they are harder to locate at this time of the year. All females are gravid.

Then they have another session from the 1st of August through to the 15th of October.
This works for a roe buck season, the fallow are pre rut as are the reds and not all of them have cleaned off their velvet, especially the younger stags.

With regards to manageing the deer populations there is no such thing; Here is a quote from an "expert" who was teaching a class of up n coming aspiring "selective" hunters when presented with a question as to why they don't explore any "quality control" issues:

"We can't pretend to decide which males are "good" or "bad" males, how can we possibily know the difference? Female deer know which males are better than the next and mate with them accordingly. I mean, just look at people, there are plenty of ugly men that get heaps of women, and if you look at ritch men, well they get heaps.
And as to these so called "sanitary culls" I have NEVER seen a deer that needed culling on those grounds, it is very vare to see deer that need to be killed because of health reasons"

later in the lesson: "since there are no natural predators, we need to take that role and manage the deer populations"

It took al my willpower to stop a violent reaction towards this man.

As to shooting your roe in velvet or not - if you want to maintain good genetics in your area, wait until he's bred, if you have to eradicate or thin them from the area, shoot it when you get the chance.
Fairly simple to me. Some might say it's a bit like trying to play god, but thats' what we have to do since there really there aren't any predators to keep them in check, both in terms of numbers, health and genetic quality.

I had a friend who adorned every surface of his house and shed with roe buck antlers,he had this overwhelming urge to shoot nothing but big bucks.I found this quite distasteful, and anyone who shoots just for whats on its head I feel is doing deerstalking a dis-service.
Very few of us can afford the luxury of being selective in their cull,I have shot some very nice bucks, but the head never took precident over the cull, the main priority is venison in the freezer, the cull, not trohpies on the wall..reduce the numbers to an acceptable level whereby food is in abundance and you will get good bucks and does.I think if you shoot a good buck then it should be by chance rather than deliberate selection..

regards
griff