Took a client out stalking this morning(22nd May), started out at 4.00am. We decided that on the way we would lamp for foxes, we hadn't gone far when the light picked up a set of eyes, the light by this time was light enough to see without the lamp but never the less we kept the lamp on the eyes,my guest got out on to the bonnet with the bipod and picked up the eyes straight away, whatever it was was asleep in the bracken, not wanting to shoot at just eyes and quite rightly so we waited until it stood up, by this time the light is gaining fast and the lamp was useless, when it finally stood up my guest uttered words like holy f***k its a panther. I could now see it clearly an animal only 175yds away black as the ace of spades, its size would be that of a small labrador it had a large rounded head and a tail the thickness of a scaffolding tube,which was as long as its body itself, the tail was in line with its spine straight out behind it. It wasn't in any hurry until the first shot, which missed!!!!
it then ran towards us stopped and then turned to walk back up the hill, by this my guest who I may name and shame later on was fumbling in his bullet pouch for a second round, second shot away Missed Again!!! still in no hurry it dissapeared over the top of the hill out of sight.. Believe me when I say there were some profanity's uttered after the second miss.
If I pluck up enough courage might go for look to see if there are any pad marks where it was, will be armed to the teeth with a shotgun and some ssg's and a trusty black terrier.
will keep you informed as events unfold..
regards
griff

You was just inches away from making the frontpage of the Scottish newspapers this morning Griff !!!!

Very interesting in deed, so keep us informed.

Nice one Griff. Very interesting. Keep us posted on any sign you may be able to pick up later on.

Cheers

JB

hey griff
to much whiskey or wrong mushrooms!!!!!
have a nice day!!!!!!!!!
scirroco

Been to have look, but nothing! found one bullet strike, plenty of scrabble marks but no positive prints. Looks like fame and fortune have passed me by, AGAIN.

My rifle will be in the car tommorrow morning, with 140gn nosler partition's. I think the gods would have to smiling on me if I saw it again!
sods law.....

regards
griff

Griff,

It might have been better your guest missed...depending on the variations and the attitude of the Police, they may have been asking some very searching questions, if you get my drift..

Regards,

Pete

PS I also think its illegal to use your terrier for bait!

seriously, this does raise the question, what do you do if you see a big cat? With new reports coming in all over the UK, stalkers are more likely to see them than probably anyone else. So your in a high seat and a panther walks by, BANG, down he goes(or at least that"s the idea!), so what do you do then? I"d be thinking of a quick pic with my mobile for close friends, and then the fastest hole i"ve ever dug!
I can just hear my FEO now, "you don"t have panther"s listed on your FAC"
good shooting

brass thief,

My local bobby insists that it would not be a problem and he would be more than pleased if one that turned up in our area were to be shot..

But that the rub...while he might have a common sense attitude, who knows what his bosses or my FLO would say? Especially if the Anti's start putting pressure on them in the media ect..

Given that two women have been arrested for firing blanks for a starter gun while training their gundogs, I really don't trust our Police any more...

Regards,

Pete

i seem to remember a fairly recent set of articles in the east anglian about a lynx that got shot in Norfolk. Pretty sure there was a bit in it about a prosecution.

My understanding would be that if it isn't mentioned in the Wildife and Countryside act 81 tehn you can knock it over with no recrimenations.

Seem to remember that Eagle owls arent on that list so they could be shot? I could be way of base here though.

Any lawyers out there??

Not decided yet whether i could pull the trigger on one or not.

I know i"d never forgive myself if i did"nt shoot it!
I reckon on an Attleboro"s tanning kit, a nice clean skull and it would just be my little secret!
here kitty kitty...
good shooting

Griff,

Did your contract stipulate a fee for missing on a trophy animal

Were you using binos?

SWS,

I think there are two different asspects of the law at play here...

I've never looked into the Wildife and Countryside act 81, but just because its legal to take an animal under that, doesn't mean you you can take it by any means possible..there are other areas of the law you have to follow as well...For instance, while its legal to take deer with a rifle, you still have to have the correct variation on your FAC to do so...same with the issue of these big cats..

Where things become a little murky, is if you have a variation for your .270win which says "Pest Control"...I guess it could be argued both ways whether a big cat is a "pest species" or not?

More likely is that some people have a variation which allows for the "protecion of other people and livestock" (i can't remember the exact wording) Some Forces seem to put this on automatically as part of the standard wording while others don't...North Wales Police (where i am) doesn't!!

brass thief,

Put me down the same as you... a nice clean skull to look at and I'll leave all the fame and glory (and grief!) to others!

Regards,

Pete

1894/Pete,
you would of thought that common sense would prevail in circumstances like this, but we are talking about FLO's here.
My local FLO told me when asking wild boar, no problem because they are not wild boar they are boar that are wild, with this in mind surely if its legal to shoot feral cats then its only a matter of size, AS ALWAYS!!!

1894,
sorry no bino's used here didn't need them at 175yds quite visible in the short grass and dead bracken.. even after slinging 300gns of lead at it, it was in no hurry!!

I will be on the whisky tonight dreaming of what could of been..

As once said on AR, it would of been S,S,S shoot, shovel, shutup!! and admire a rare trophy indeed on the wall!

regards
griff
P.S it has been seen about a dozen times over the last month

I had a chat with my FLO about this a couple of years ago. Initially it was regarding the prospect of some piggies turning up in sussex, but the conversation proceeded to the likes of goats and cats.

My problem was that the variation allowing me to shoot "vermin" was being contested in court as to what the definition of Vermin was. He amended my Cert for 243 and 308 to read something like:

"Zeroing purposes, and the shooting of deer, vermin, and ground game"

He assured me that ground game and vermin together should cover just about anything I would come accross in the course of my travels.

So therefore if anyone want to invite me over shoot big pussy cats and wild boar then feel free as I have no problems with my certificate!!!

Rgds,
FB

Ha ha, these black panthers must get around. Some fellows in Victoria in Australia keep seeing them too. Might be the same ones too. Don't know how big their territory really is ???

If you did happen upon a big cat on a morning stalk and you managed to get it in the bag, the urge to sing like a canary to all your mates and anyone else who wants to listen would be outweighed by the slight risk of a ticking off by your local FLO.

Some certificates do state that "the rifles listed may be used in connection with the shooting of animals for the protection of other animals or humans" now if you had that on your ticket you might get away with "but constable the big pussy cat was coming straight at me!"

Saw it with my own eyes!!!!
Could you have seen it better with some one elses eyes?

There are black leopards in Ethiopia and Malaya and black jaguars in South America and I think there may have been one black puma. Certainly I have seen a puma dyed black for TV. But they are in all cases very, very rare.

The odd thing about these mystery cats is they are just about all black in color. Maybe its the backlighting early in the morning and late in the day that makes them seem black?


VBR,


Ted Gorsline

Griff, having a gun doesn't seem to do you much good. Maybe you should trade it for a camera.

Interboat
Didn't have my gun with me!! thats what really pissing me off, once in a lifetime opportunity and I didn't have a gun with me. Won't make that mistake again!!

regards
griff

england and Rob roy country is famous for its cat ghosts , the black cat from killarkey for instance but there was something on animal planet a while back about the puma in england. one idea was that it was a animal that had run away from a zoo or sirkus, but what would the truth be, there is much that people hasnt found out yet.

regards per

The most credible explanation I heard of was that in the early eighhties a couple of famous pop starts were seen parading with Black panthers (black leopards)on leashes. The result was that a number of people decided to get these exotic pets and quickly realised that they were more trouble than they were worth so they got turned out.

Why they always seeem to be black I don't know but of the ones you heard of people fgetting as pets the black was always favoured.

I once went on an evening stalk with a keeper freind and saw a large feral cat crossing a field of sheep. He didn't seem to keen for me to shoot it and although more than double the size of a normal cat it was not in big cat league.

We now have about a dozen feral cats on the shoot and I'm really worried about what sort of damage they can do to our pheasants. The farmer likes them as they are eating all the rats but I think I might need to persuade them to emigrate...

FB

quote:

Originally posted by Fallow Buck:
The farmer likes them as they are eating all the rats but I think I might need to persuade them to emigrate...
FB

Yes. To Cat Heaven.

As much as I love old Blighty your gun laws scare the hell out of me.

This is a reccurring comment, but personally I don't have a problem with our gun laws in any great way.

We might have to jump through the occasional hoop and would struggle to build up an armoury of 100 random guns. This is more than offset by the fact that we can get up any day of the year and go shooting (apart from Xmas day).

Not to mention that we can shoot as many deer as we like without the need to report and draw for the privilage.

Don't be too scared, owning a bunch of guns is one thing but being allowed to use them is an entirely different one.

FB

Fallow Buck,

You may not be aware of the fact that we have year round hunting here in the states, as well. Just not for native deer. Maybe you're a deer purist and look down on other types of hunting, but it isn't as if the UK is the only country where hunters are "allowed" to use guns year round.

Here in Texas I can get up on any given day including Xmas and hunt all the non-native exotics such as feral hogs that I like. A lot of the deer species that are hunted in the UK, such as sika, fallow, and muntjac, fall in this category in your country as well as here. I can also hunt predators such as coyote, bobcat, and mountain lion. In the case of mountain lion, though, I am burdened with the onerous responsibility of telling the state of Texas when I kill one.

CFS,

Agreed, you are in a similarly beneficial situation in Texas,but is it the same all over the states? Realistically in most of the draw states from my limited understanding most hunters can look at shooting a handfull of Bucks or Bulls each year. This may not be the case in reality but it is the impression we get over here.

I read an article not long ago about goose shooters who had to differntiate between a4-5 differnt varieties of canada geese. Apparently there was one type that had to be sent to a lab to be positively differntiated. The guy that shot it could have faced a 2 season hunting ban if the decision went against him. As it happened he won.

I'm not a deer purist at all. In fact whacking piggies was quite cool but I'm not experienced enought yet to have made my mind up as to whether it is something I'll carry on hunting. Once I've shot a few hundred more I'll be able to give you a more informed opinion.

The bottom line is that personaly I find it quite grating when we get comments about how terrible it is to be a hunter in the UK from people who have never hunted here. I suppose it is the same as whensomeone tells you that hunting in the states is rubbbish and you seeem to have a different opinion huh?

Rgds,

FB

Fallow Buck,

You're correct that our laws vary widely by state. Having only lived in California and Texas I can tell you that there is year round big game hunting in both. When I was growing up in CA hog hunting was far more popular than deer hunting. When hunting hogs we didn't need a tag and there was no limit. A few years back CA introduced a requirement for tags, ostensibly to keep track of the harvest. You had to buy them in booklets of 5 for $5.00, but could buy more anytime you wanted. Since I've left the state I don't know if they've limited them now or not.

I haven't explored the mysteries of the fish and game code in the remaining 48 states, but I doubt CA and TX are the only states with year round big game hunting. If you consider predators hunting an attractive choice, that widens the field of opportunities considerably.

I wasn't trying to comment on the state of your laws, just trying to shed light on the state of our own laws in the U.S. If someone wants to hunt year round here they can easily organize their lives to do so. You can always buy an out-of-state license but the truly motivated may choose to change their state of residence. It may seem restrictive that my hunting activities are restricted by license to an individual state, but CA is roughly the size of Japan and TX the size of France. I've never felt hindered by remaining within the borders of either.

The patchwork of game laws we have can be confusing, and authorities can enforce them stupidly. But that's not a disease restriced to the U.S. Recently an American hunter shot what he thought was a Polar Bear in Canada. It was determined to be a never before seen cross between a Polar Bear and Grizzly Bear. Had Canadian authorities decided to classify the animal as a Grizzly Bear the hunter could have been in trouble for killing an animal not on his license (which is what this thread is about, or so I thought). Anyway common sense eventually prevailed and the hunter was allowed to leave with his trophy. After all, if the government needs to do DNA testing to determine an animal's species then certainly the hunter can't be expected to distinguish the difference in the field. But they could have caused a lot of trouble for the guy, and apparently at least some Canadian officials were leaning towards doing so.

Cheers,
China Fleet Sailor