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| one of us |
I�m looking for a camoflage. Anybody with experience using a ghillie suit like this one ore similar?  | ||
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one of us |
A long, long time ago, when I was plain old Lance Corporal Deerdogs, I attended a sniper course. I had to make just such a ghillie suit. Probably has limited uses off the battlefield. Bow hunting perhaps... | |||
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| one of us |
Maybe knifehunting... if you can get close enough... :-) | |||
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| one of us |
I use one bowhunting and when I'm taking pictures. I haven't tried it rifle hunting although I might. My father uses one to catch poachers on his property. | |||
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| one of us |
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| one of us |
Yes, I know about Cabelas, but do you have any experience? Is this just a suit for "wannabe-snipers" or does it serve its mission in hunting situations? Do you get closer to wildlife with this? Does it give benifits to the hunter? Have any experienced benifits using this or similar suits? | |||
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| one of us |
quote:I haven't used it, no. But I know that a properly camouflaged individual can get VERY close to game. I've had wild turkeys as close as 15 yards when sitting still in the bushes wearing camo (mix of US Army woodland pattern and Mossy Oak Break Up). This camo included a cap, face veil, and thin gloves, so as to show no skin at all. The turkey didn't know I was there until he heard my shotgun go off ![[Cool]](images/icons/cool.gif){kind=icon} . This suit merely provides a portable bush to hide in. Add some burlap strips to your firearm to break up its outline, and you're set. [ 02-20-2003, 20:35: Message edited by: ksduckhunter ] | |||
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| one of us |
It has allowed me to get very close <5 metres. I also wear a "no scent" undersuit. | |||
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| Moderator |
I was out stalking with a guy who was an ex Sniper Instructor from the British Parachute Regiment. Rather than a full ghillie suit he wore a pretty standard DPM cammo outfit (actually a lighter tone than the usual one) but wore a snipers head net/veil which was scrimmed up with hessian/burlap along with a pair of similarly cam'd gloves. Two things struck me: 1) How little hessian/burlap he used on the veil but how effective it was at breaking up the tell tale head and shoulders signature outline of a human. It also of course hid the whiteness/shine of his face. 2) Just how effective this mimimal approach worked. He demonstrated it against vaious backgrounds within the wood and simply by standing *still* in a little shadow next to a tree he became very unobtrusive. When he took the veil off and wore a "normal" cammo base ball cap, he stuck out like a sore thumb. His observation was that a full ghillie suit was only really needed in a sniper situation where trying to hide from the practiced eye (and optics!) of another expirienced sniper. Deer were realatively easy to fool in comparision. I really wished i had taken a photo of the veil as I would like to make one. I am not sure I would wear it while stalking/still hunting, but i see a very practical application if you are sitting in a bare arsed lean-to highseat just 10' of the ground. [ 02-21-2003, 19:05: Message edited by: Pete E ] | |||
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| one of us |
Pretty much the thing for (a) spending money on "must have" kit and (b) totally unneccessary for knocking animals over at normal ranges with a rifle. Aha, but what about .22 rimfire I hear you say with sub 50 yard shots on wabbits? Approach from downwind, move slowly and stand still if you think you're being looked at. "I really wished i had taken a photo of the veil as I would like to make one. I am not sure I would wear it while stalking/still hunting, but i see a very practical application if you are sitting in a bare arsed lean-to highseat just 10' of the ground." Being a permanent spectacle wearer, I take trouble to avoid nasty reflections from lenses and frames. On the high seat I find that breaking up the outline of the face, and not loking directly at the curious beast looking back at you, is enough to avoid being seen and identified. Stalking I sometimes wear a scrim net a la Lawrence of Arabia - just wrapped around the old whiskers. Very probably the effect is greater on me than on the beast standing 100 yards or more away. ![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif){kind=icon} Whatever you wear it must be comfortable. | |||
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| Moderator |
Fortune, Do you know of any historical references to the Scottish Ghillies/Stalkers actually wearing these suits? I have searched high and low, and although that is the accepted origin, I can't actually find any accounts from stalkers themselves using them in the Victorian period..I am beginning to think it is a "Highland Legend"! Peter [ 02-22-2003, 03:25: Message edited by: Pete E ] | |||
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| one of us |
What you guys in the UK sometimes fail to realize is that camouflage is not an American affectation, but an almost essential component of hunting/stalking forced upon us by some of our quarry, seasons, and hunting pressure. Take the wild turkey, for instance. Turkeys have incredibly keen eyesight. Far better than that of humans, and miles better than any deer. Not only that, but turkey hunting is done during their spring mating season, when the males are hyper alert. Trying to hunt a tom wild turkey in the spring without a complete set of camouflage that will a) cover every bit of skin and reflection, and b) effectively break up the human outline is simply an exercise in frustration. Same goes for waterfowling in inland waters, and to a lesser degree, hunting big game with bow and arrow. Even deer hunting during rifle season can sometimes benefit from a high degree of camouflage, particularly when stalking in the woods. Mostly due to the higher, more concentrated hunting pressure our deer experience. The camouflage does not need to be as extreme as a ghilie suit, but Loden green just ain't gonna cut it in many American hunting situations. | |||
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| <fortune> |
Hiya Pete E It might be worth having a look at the BASC site as to the origin of this kind of Cammo. I wouldn't have thought that it was really suitable for highland shooting. More for english woodland. I wouldn't want to have to drag that lot over the hills. Especially when wet!! | ||
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| <fortune> |
Hiya KSDUCKHUNTER. I would love to hunt a Tom with you and experience that particular hunting situation. I agree that just standing against a tree wearing a green loden jacket wont �cut it� but a suit like that generally wont make you invisible no matter what it cost or how pretty it looks. Do these leafy suits match the local conditions that you experience in your hunting situation? When you hunt do you remain static in one place and wait for the quarry to come to you, or are you mobile in search of the quarry? I refer you to the posts that Pete E and Pete wrote previously. Good luck and best wishes for your hunting. Fortune | ||
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quote:Fortune, you're correct in that no camo will make one invisible. Luckily, all that is needed is to blend in enough that your quarry will at least have to pause and wonder what you are. That moment of doubt is sometimes all the time you will get to pull the trigger and close the deal. Often, though, well executed camouflage (whether it is 2-D or 3-D) will keep the game from even detecting you. I have had ducks come sailing right by me and cupping their winds to land within 20 yards because I was wearing camouflage from head to toe, using flooded trees to stand under and break my outline, and keeping still. However, this is still hunting, not shopping for gorceries, and the game often detects you no matter how well you think you've hidden yourself.... Turkey hunting is a passive/aggressive kind of sport. The first thing to do is locate their roosts. This is done by blowing locating calls (animal calls that will annoy the bird and make him gobble, usually crows or owls) near likely roosts just before dawn and and just after dusk. Once the roost is located, the object is to sneak in under darkness to a spot where the turkey is likely to land after flying off the tree. Once there, one should find at least a large tree to sit against for two reasons: a) it protects your backside from a careless hunter's shot, and most likely b) breaks up your outline. In most US states, artificial decoys can be used. A good setup is a young tom posing over a hen as if breeding her. This serves to attract the dominant tom, looking to kick the young one off his mates. Once in position, one should pay attention to the sounds of turkeys flying off the roost. When they come down, one should use a hen turkey call to imitate a hen looking for a mate. Hopefully the tom will respond with some hearty gobbling, and the gobbling will get closer as time goes by. Once the tom is within gun range (35 yards or less), you must pick a time when he isn't looking in your direction to lay down your call (if using a slate or box call), pick up your gun, and aim for the head shot. Other times, in the late morning, you can stalk turkeys if you have a good idea where they might be strutting, or you can quitely walk the woods, calling every now and then and listening for reply gobbles. Once the turkey is approaching, you must go into stealth mode, sit down, hide yourself as best you can, and lure him into gun range using your mating calls. Most states require shotguns for turkey hunting (a few allow small caliber CF rifles), and turkey shotguns have become a bit specialized. You have to use shot, but you are aiming like a rifle at a stationary or slow moving target, instead of shooting instinctively as you would flying quarry. Turkey guns also sport extra full chokes (.050"+ of constriction) to ensure that the maximum amount of shot reaches the bird's head and neck for an instant kill. Related to the aiming method, most turkey hunters have fiber optic open sights on their guns, with more and more each day are using low power (1-3X) scopes or Aimpoint-type sights. If you're ever in the US between early April and late May, you can find turkey hunting opportunities. You may have to hire a guide if you don't know any local hunters, but you will have a cool tale for you mates back home. ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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| <fortune> |
ks**** That sounds good stuff. What shot size is generally used and are you allowed to / is it possible to drive the turkeys to a kill zone or to be flighted over the guns as driven pheasant. The reason I ask this is that some years ago we had some ornamental peacocks get out from a local garden and live wild on our shoot. It became a topic of where and when during the day we would encounter one or more. I had a lab at that time and it was quite a sight when the dog flushed one or more out of cover back over us. Although the gun used to come up pretty quick we never shot any (probably a bit tough eating) one by one they fell to the foxes. Fortune | ||
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quote:The most usual shot size used in turkey hunting is US 5 or 6. Those give probably the best compromise between energy on target and sufficient pattern density. I Know of no states that allow dogs to be used in turkey hunting during the spring season. Some states, like Kansas, also have a fall season. Kansas does allow the use of dogs to track and find turkeys in the fall season. Also, Kansas only permits toms to be taken in spring, but both sexes in the fall. The turkey uses the stealth and speed of its escape as its main defense against predators. That's why they have such formidable eyesight. It is unlikely that a dog, much less a man, could get close enough to flush one. Although I've heard of rough shooters in search of pheasant or quail that have flused turkeys to flight after being pointed by their dog, I've never witnessed it, and I've never heard so from someone I personally know. I'm not saying it hasn't happened, just that it is very unlikely. It is legal in Kansas, BTW, to shoot a turkey on the ground or on the wing. In Kansas, it is illegal to shoot ANY other gamebird unless it is in flight. We really consider turkey hunting "big game" hunting because the techniques are so similar. It really has nothing in common with wingshooting. Notice that I've kept refering to what is and isn't legal in Kansas. That's because all 50 states set their own rules for hunting, except for the hunting of migratory birds (wildfowl, doves, snipe, and woodcock). Rules for such birds are set by the Federal government due to the Migratory Bird Treaty of 1918 signed by the US, Mexico, and Canada. | |||
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| one of us |
To take it a step further regarding migratory waterfowl, the Feds hand down from above a set of guidelines or framework by which each state then sets it's season/limit. Some states split the state in zones while others split the season, etc. Regarding turkey shot size, Missouri has a size 4 limit. The reason behind this is safety. Anything larger is more likely to cause more damage in the event of an accident. Accidents can happen when certain hunters, generally beginners, sneak up on another hunter that is calling. This is why it's a good idea to keep your gobbling to a minimum. I have been out turkey hunting before where I was walking along and features of the terrain allowed me to surprise a turkey at fairly close range and thereby flush the bird. I've never had this happen when upland hunting and I've never seen a dog point a turkey. Later, Reed | |||
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| <fortune> |
KS*** Reed and others This thread has taken a different path to its intended question, Sorry to the originator!!! These bloody rules and regs are a pain in the arse. I thought it was bad enough in the UK but our regs seem simple to yours. Reading your postit seems that you practise what we call walked up shooting. Pheasant partridge and grouse are also shot as driven birds here in the UK and I don�t see why it not be possible to drive turkeys over standing guns IF THE LAW ALLOWS IT !!!! Driving game is done like this: (sorry if you already do this) A piece of ground is selected that (A) Holds game and (B) has a piece of ground at it�s end that is a suitable killing zone. Usually a high point so that the birds make more sporting targets. Beaters, who carry guns with or without dogs, walk through pre-selected woods and cover, Blowing whistles and tapping their sticks against trees and cover. This makes the birds and other game (foxes) to run forward. Any offshoot hedges or gulleys must be covered or the game will all run off up these escape routes. Most game will run the wood to a pre selected flushing point. At this point, usually the end point of the cover a string line with plastic strips (feed bags cut up) attached suspended knee high, holds up the birds. As the beaters/dogs get closer the game that has been held up flushes over the standing guns or back over the beating line as they try to get back to their home territory. (SAFETY) NO SHOOTING TOWARDS THE OPPOSING LINE. This can be done with as few as two people. What do you think?? Fortune | ||
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| one of us |
Hi Fortune, don't worry about the different direction this thread has taken. IMO, it's more fun and educational to swap stories about hunting types and techniques than it is to discuss whether or not camouflage is necessary, ad infinitum. Hunting regulations in the US are not excessively complex. Some states are worse than others, but by and large, a hour's worth of reading will tell you all you would need to know. I guess you could theoretically drive turkeys over the guns. I've never heard of it being done, mostly because driven shooting is simply unknown by the great majority of American hunters. | |||
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| <fortune> |
KS*** I used to shoot regularly with three friends on about a thousand acres. It had all sorts of game and we used to shoot every weekend. On the shoot there was a long wood, which was about a mile in length but only about a hundred yards wide, with a stream running through the middle. How we used to shoot this wood was as follows. Two of us (the standing guns) would go about three hundred yards down the wood to pre-selected points where the wood narrowed and the two guns could cover it�s width. Keeping out in the fields away from the wood as we went so as not to disturb anything in the wood. The two walking guns would wait to allow the standing guns to get into position and decide when to start the drive. We had two dogs between us, which would work through the thicker cover and rushes. The two standing guns would shoot foxes and any pheasants that flew over them and we the walking guns would shoot any that came back over us along with flushed woodcock and any rabbits moved by dogs. When we got to the standing guns position they would move down the wood again and it would carry on like this in a leap frog fashion all down the wood picking up birds that had pitched back into the wood further down along with new birds and game. By the time we got through the wood we might have a tally of three or four foxes up to fifteen pheasants and a few other varieties. The shot game being taken forward by the standing guns at each stand and left near a road for pickup later. There always seemed to be game in the next section and the shots from the standing guns didn't move it that far. | ||
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| one of us |
You know, Fortune, now that you place driven shooting in that context, I think there are far more similarities between your country and mine than I realized at first. I was thinking of driven shooting in the formal estate driven shoot context. The rather informal, small scale drives that you describe are done very often in the US as well. Deer and pheasants are often the quarry, and the locations to be driven are selected here basically the same way that you do it in England. We look for woodlots and tall crops with limited escape avenues. Then some of the hunters (guns) become blockers and cover the escape route, while the drivers walk and pusht he game. Small timber lots and tall crops such as corn are the favorite places to do this. I think most American hunters would feel out of place and uncomfortable in a large, formal, estate shoot, but would fit right in what you describe. | |||
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| <fortune> |
KS*** This kind of shooting is called walked up or rough shooting in this country. Rough, meaning walking through rough cover, as opposed to standing at peg. Both have their pluses. There is some sort of myth about English formal shoots being stuck up. I'm sure that anyone would be and is made welcome. It is all about being a gentleman and a good sportsman than what you�ve got. (Mind you it does help if you�ve got plenty. More bang for your bucks) I help out (controlling vermin) on a large commercial shoot and see all sorts of shooters from the very rich to the not so rich. The gentlemen are a class apart and it�s got nothing to do with how much they�ve got in their pocket. When, on your shoots, you are a standing gun, how do you cope with the possibility of either pheasant or deer coming to you? Do you have no 6 in one barrel and slug in the other? What happens with your love of pumps and auto�s? | ||
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| <jeremy w> |
Hehe, I reckon I would have a tough time convincing enough folks to go hunting with me to be my "beaters". A popular method around here is to use a .22WMF and hit them in the head/neck or in the vitals where the wing butt joins the body. Most everyone hunting turkeys in the eastern states use shotguns and call turkeys to them. The shotgun is used to shoot the turkey on the ground in the head/neck. I often wonder why they don't just use a straight shooting rifle for the same purpose. Consider that many "turkey" shotguns are choked so full, and equipped with such sights, that they are not even useful for flushed bird hunting anymore. | ||
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quote:You and me both. It makes no sense to me to use a shotgun when a .223 will do. | |||
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| one of us |
quote:Agreed. No doubt about that. quote:Well, our deer and pheasant seasons hardly overlap. What's more, our rifle deer season is so short, that people who hunt deer devote their entire time to deer season. Keep in mind, in some states, it's illegal to carry shot and slug at the same time. Don't ask me why, because I don't know. Kansas is not like that. I guess you could have a slug in one barrel and shot in the other. If you have a repeater, you really don't have that option. | |||
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| <fortune> |
Preparation for next season starts straight away and this means catching up the laying birds and thinning out the Cocks. Some of them are taken in the catcher frames but the keepers put sacks of wheat out as free feed piles in selected killing zones so that a waiting gun can sit and shoot the cocks in the head with a 22rf fitted with a silencer. Loads of squirrels are accounted for in this way too. Brenneke slug and ball are not allowed here at all in the UK (I believe that there must be more than nine pellets none bigger than 38 cal in each round) I think!!. There are some occasions where it would be useful to be able to use these and I have HEARD that if you take a cartridge and cut it almost all the way through just below the base of the plaswad. When fired the complete end of the case goes. This is a very effective slug. Preferably fired through a cyl barrel. Of course I have never done anything like this as it is illegal here !! Do you /have you ever tried any of these techniques. Fortune | ||
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| <fortune> |
Jeremy W Perhaps, I use the word beaters too much. Beaters are token paid on formal driven shoots and don�t carry guns. But in walked up rough shoots it is usual to take turns at walking and standing. The old boys usually stand but some people love to walk. Especially if they are working their dog/dogs. The walkers usually get more shooting than the standers. Game runs and then tends to hide up so that it can get back to its home territory only to be flushed by the dogs back over the walking guns. fortune | ||
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| one of us |
quote:I've never had to try as Foster, Brenneke, and sabot slugs are legal in Kansas. Buckshot, however is not. I don't bother with shotguns for deer hunting. For that I use bolt action rifles in 30-06 and 300 Winchester Magnum. | |||
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