The Scottish burns are running red after the horrendous mass slaughter of red deer at Glenfeshie.
The slaughter ordered by the Deer Commision Scotland has gone against all what we believe in and stand for!!!
On the pretence of deer management the DCS ordered in Contract Killers to eradicate the red deer on the estate,they spared NOTHING,Pregnant hinds with only weeks to go were slaughtered, most of the carcasses were heaped up and un-gralloched, scenes reminiscent of the foot and mouth epidemic only a few years ago..........
I urge all stalkers to vent their anger and disgust by bombarding their local M.P's with e-mails/phone calls letters etc..

Griff

Griff,

Fenced area with grants etc? Why not post an open letter at Deer-UK.com for the DCS to respond to?

I don't profess to understand some aspects of Scottish deer management.

I believe that most of Royal Deeside is vertually a deer clearance zone now in the eyes of the DCS...Having said that I know a few keepers on grouse moors up there who regard Red red as nothing but vermin. Most stop short of shooting hinds so close to calving, but stags are often shot all year around and legally too I might add. Apparently it is very easy to get a license to shoot out of season and similarly for night shooting too...

The DCS has a lot to answer for..

Griff,
what would you propose to be a answer to the problem of the high numbers of Red deer in Scotland?...is it acceptable for estates not to continuosly make there cull numbers to the detriment of a)health of the deer ultimately or b)regeneration of areas of Caledonian pine forest etc.

Further I think the use of the term "contract killers" borders a bit on what one might expect from the hysterical outpourings from a "anti"
To put it simply there were too many deer,actions were taken,and the problem was solved in that area,lets not be shedding tears for the bambi factor now.

Roebuck222

roebuck222

Quote:

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what would you propose to be a answer to the problem of the high numbers of Red deer in Scotland?...

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One answer would be to have an organized stalk/stand hunt. With standers set out all over the property. Then just ask and I will bring some of the finest deer dogs in the state of Louisiana. Now fun can be had by all and funds could be raised for future deer management.

Or maybe a more realistic idea would be to extend the open season in this area. Make rule changes that say if you shoot a stag you must shoot a hind. Or if the area is populated by people, how about a bow hunt? I know the bow hunt idea doesn't wash well in the U.K. but it has been a viable solution here in the U.S. where allowed.

All I know is the contract Killing of deer is wrong. (It is a contract with the state, county, property owner, etc.) There is no getting back to nature, no tradition, or no sport in it at all.
All I know for sure is in this country when �they� send out the contract killers is it cost the tax payer money for something that could have been done for free by some fine people who enjoy hunting , nature fair chase and the great outdoors.

There are better ways.
Shawn

Bluetick / shawn,
I agree there are far better ways than having what had to be done...done
However, I do not believe,that bow hunting would work in Scotland,due to the fact that most Red deer are taken on open hill and it would be relatively hard to get within bow range consistantly,the efficiency of the bow versus modern firearms for a humane kill is also a factor,but thats another story / debate.
There are no public hunting lands in the uk (exceptions being the foreshore for wild fowling) unlike the US.
Numbers of red deer in scotland are now at record levels..why?.because we are not shooting enough of them,solution shoot more of them...is this rocket science?,hardly.
IF stalking was made more accessible to anyone who fancied a go would we have the amount of red deer that we have now...no
whatever else is said here,the great british public has at this time,whether through ignorance or not, the perception is that deer stalking is not for the ordinary man on the street....sadly.
OK lots of deer were shot out of season by paid marksmen...gamekeepers,deer managers etc are (mostly) marksmen who get paid...how many deer must one shoot before you become a "deer killer"?,a job needed doing...because estates could not do theirs,and reduce the numbers,whos to blame?
It was problem..there was short term solution,now how about drying our eyes and thinking about averting such things in the future.
cheers
Roebuck222

Roebuck,

You say a job neededto be done and was done. The bottom line is that the estates management policy with regards to deer would have felt otherwise. My point here is who is to decide what is enough?? The herd as it stood would have been no problem were it not for the cold spell experienced in the weather. This forced the deer into an area of plantations thatthe powers that be deemed vulnerable. Call me old fashioned, but surely the land owner should have some say in what goes on?? But no... The estate was not evenmade aware that the cull was going to be carried out and it was the fourth day before the estates stalkers were allowed to acompany the DCS to protect their interests. In my eyes this behaviour is entirely unacceptable, and I hope we never end up in a similar situation in England.

In addition, you have mentioned a couple of times that the sport is inaccesible. this may be so in the south but not in scotland. I can shoot does & hinds at �30 a bang!! Given the petrol, the guide, the quad to recover the beast, and everything else that ghoes into it, it is cheap as chips. Especially as these are the animals that need to be culled. As for Roe bucks I was quoted �35 an outing with the buck included in Avimore... I think it was Rothimurcus?

The heaps of carcasses we see in pictures are devoid of any respect for the quarry. The respect that is the core of our sport, and is he difference between enjoying shooting and enjoying killing. Any sportsman would disagree with the DCS's actions, and should speak out against it as it will only be detrimental to sports shooters in the future.

Oh by the way this is just IMHO

FB

roebuck,
I hope you were not referring to me as an "anti".
This is a moral and ethical issue!!

There several issues here but the main ones are: Who's right is it to say you have too many deer and on what grounds?
If the issue is national heritage, such as a caledonian pine forest, which it is! but then so is the red deer which is so commonly asocciated with Scotland!

The main objection is that they culled heavily pregnant hinds, when there was no need to cull at this late stage in pregnancy.
and perhaps you could in your wisdom tell us all! how big is a foetus at this time of year, and whether it is acceptable to see a foetus moving in its sac after its been gralloched.
Just to stop you reaching for your book, the average size foetus at this time of year is about 1 metre long.

Wouldn't that look good in the national press!!!

These deer were not stalked they were chased and slaughtered!!!

griff

No Griff,
I am not referring to you as a "anti",I've read enough of your posts to know where you stand..as do I incidentally.
I'm sure that most of the stalkers who did the culling did not enjoy what they did,they were doing a job,granted a very dirty one.
We have shot or otherwise killed all natural predators to the deer in Britain and numbers keep rising,something needed done,it was.
What I would prefer to see is more deer taken in their proper seasons,and avoid any further unpleasant although necessary mass culling.

cheers
roebuck222