Hi on a lighter note European theme hunting rifle your opinion .... I am serious about this new Mauser 03 stutzen

Mauser M98

If you insist on a stützen, then the Sauer 202.
http://www.sauer-waffen.de/sho...f7dc2dcb3b81270b75e1

quote:

If you insist on a stützen, then the Sauer 202.
http://www.sauer-waffen.de/sho...f7dc2dcb3b81270b75e1

+1 Its my Number One Choice for hunting in Europe

Seloushunter

Benjamin,

If it absolutely has to be brand, spanking new; then the Blaser R93 Stutzen in say, .308 Winchester, 7x64 Brenneke, 270 Winchester or .30/06 Sprg. - a tasteful, crowd pleaser for sure.

I can't speak for the UK Blaser Dealer but here in The Fatherland when Luxus +Grades are ordered then the factory needs to forward at least 3-4 Buttstocks for personal wood approval - then the negotiations begin.

The CZ a lovely rifle as well, good solid workmanship at a reasonable price.

A Mauser as a Push-Feed with an Idiot Button on the Bolt Sleeve? Well, let's just say Peter Paul Mauser; if he could be with us today, would probably not be a Happy Camper - IMO, regardless of the appointments or grade of wood.

Having said that, the German market is glutted at the moment with beautiful used original Mauser Stutzen's, just a matter of being in the gunshop at the right time to find the Full Stocked carbine of your dreams, 7x64's & 8x57IS' abound for those with some patience and a critical eye.

Have Fun finding what you're looking for and making a decision.

Ben, if a new stutzen is on the menu, it would have to be a Sauer in 308win.

I checked one out when we were in Germany in January, beautifully balanced rifle:

quote:

I am serious about this new Mauser 03 stutzen

I got R93 Pro (synth) for 3 years now and very happy with it, a friend got the M03 Extreme last year and also very happy with, they are both excellent choices, they have very good finish and accuracy right out of the box, the M03 is basically a little heavier (500 gram) and longer (8-10 cm) than the R93

I agree with Claret_Dabbler, the S202 is definately the best looking. I don't like the split fore-end of the Mauser and Blaser. Let's just hope that the bosses at SAN Swiss Arms AG won't decide to make Sauer as ugly as their two other brands.

I like the Steyr-Mannlicher stutzen the most, but only because I don't see the point of having a stutzen in a take down rifle.

Maybe a single shot stutzen like the K95, Merkel, or Krieghoff.

If it has to be a Stutzen then I don't have any other suggestions. However I received my weekly email from Frankonia yesterday and they have This Zastava on sale for €399.00.

It comes chambered for a range of Euro friendly cartridges, has a wing safety and a much-improved bolt handle design. With maybe a stock refinish I think it would come up pretty decently.

Just another thought....


cheers,
- stu

Ben

You wrote 'European theme' - and then you didn't show me a picture of the quintessential Eurogun!

Forget the Stutzen, if you are looking for compact dimensions, easy breakdown and the option of being prepared for ANY game - surely the Drilling answers the question?



Come on man - how can you NOT have one of these in your cabinet? Tell me that a double rifle over shotgun will not be a well used option for driven boar or Africa?

Or twin shot-tubes over a deer calibre for all European hunting?

Did I even get around to mentioning the insert barrel option - giving you the capability to handle anything you encounter whilst out stalking?

Food for thought?

Rgds Ian

Right on Ian,

that is the one European themed hunting rifle.

Best regards Chris

quote:

Originally posted by IanF:
Ben

You wrote 'European theme' - and then you didn't show me a picture of the quintessential Eurogun!

Forget the Stutzen, if you are looking for compact dimensions, easy breakdown and the option of being prepared for ANY game - surely the Drilling answers the question?



Come on man - how can you NOT have one of these in your cabinet?


Rgds Ian

I currently have three R-93 Professional receivers and 5 barrels, and I have been trying to get a MO3 Trail. Unfortunately, they are not currently being imported into the US, and no one can tell me when one might be available so I opted for a Blaser BBF 97 12 ga over 308 "shorty".

Thank you for all your opinion.

I am planning a bear hunt in the coming year.

Imagine a Kodiak hunt spot and stalk on foot

carrying a Drilling or stutzen, a glock 21 and a package of pampers for backup

Traditional Classic = M98 stutzen

Modern-classic = Sauer 202 Stutzen

Of course a drilling or kiplauf would work too!

Double 12 guage loaded with slug over a 9.3??

Shotgun handling, as well as the sort of authority your guide would love you to have in your hands!

Scoped, it will happily stretch out to 200+m - not that many guides are foolish enough to let you shoot a kodiak brown at that range. At that point you have the facility to take off the glass if you need to take a walk into the Alders!

Rgds Ian

Ian

We are right on the same frequency ....

Spot and stalk 01 to 01 close quaters on Kodiak island

9.3 x 62 - 286 grain,
01 x 12 gauge loaded with slug and
another barrel loaded with a sabot round
alinged to a 1 - 6 x 24 Z6i with DOT reticule PLus my Glock 21 with 13 rounds of soft 45 ACP in a shoulder holster for the last 02 meter charge ......

Top that with the best scottish tweed and whisky in a silver flask ..

I am sure that will turn a few alaskan guide eyes when somebody like that turns up as client

Can't wait

thanks for all the input

Ben

Could lead to a marriage proposal - and that's just from the blokes!

Benefits of sabot in a non-rifled barrel - as opposed to a second slug? We are talking close quarter 'extremis' use only for the top barrels!

rgds Ian

Ben and Ian,

I know you guys are getting exited about the prospect of (Ben) going bear hunting in Alaska with a Drilling. Nothing wrong with that, and nothing wrong with having a soft spot for a particular type of gun.

When Ben first mentioned using a Drilling for Alaska, I figured I had better keep my opinion to myself. After all, all shooters have different ideas of what constitutes the right tool for the job. But since you seem to be getting more exited about the idea, I figured I would not hold back after all...

I happen to live in a part of the World where combined guns (rifle/shotgun/doubles etc) are very much a part of hunting tradition. In particular in days past (15-20 years ago, say), it was quite common for Swiss, German and Austrian hunters, say, to bring along the (combined) gun they used at home when they went hunting abroad. That worked fine for certain types of hunts, but for other hunts - most notably wilderness hunts where guns are subjected to the elements and rougher treatment - combined guns (and in particular Drillings) are a recipe for disaster!

Hunts like (backpack) hunts in Alaska is the place to bring the most rugged, simple, son-of-gun rifle you can lay your hands on - some would opine a stainless bolt action with a synthetic stock would be about ideal. Not only will the rifle be subjected to an inordinate amount of abuse, it is likely to be rained on incessantly for days in a row, frozen, muddied - you name it. Believe me, a Drilling is not what you want for the ultimate ruggedness and dependency - quite apart from its high weight and (with the Blaser D99 being the possible exception) lack of proper rust protection.

As mentioned above, a Drilling is also a very heavy gun, so many people would question the idea of bringing it on a hunt likely to involve a reasonable (or LARGE) amount of hill climbing. Drillings are NOT (again, the the Blaser being the possible exception) guns for long range shooting, and you never know what might await you in Alaska - bear or no bear as quarry. Finally, Drillings are NOT the right guns for a fast backup shot - e.g. to stop that bear getting into the alders in the first place. (I hear you go: "but a Drilling with double rifle barrels then..." - Have you ever tried to lift one of those things?? Normal Drillings are heavy at the best of times, double rifle Drillings are HEAVY and really very specialized guns mostly suitable for driven hunts).

Since I'm at it, let me also just insert a remark on the use of full stocked rifles under Alaskan conditions. The worst part about "Stutzens" (or "Mannlichers" as our American friends like to call them), is that the full front stock constitutes a problem in terms of touching the barrel. I personally like Stutzens, but would consider them a risk on a hunt where the rifle is likely to get VERY wet for days at a time. Even half-stocked wooden stocks can present a problem if the forearm starts to swell - try that on a Stutzen and see where your POI ends up...

Anyway, not trying to rain on your parade. I wish Ben all the best with his upcoming trip to Alaska, whatever gun you may decide to haul along.

Oh, and btw, if a Drilling is in the cards, the caliber is likely to be a 9.3x74R as opposed to the 9.3x62.

- mike

Well put and perhaps right on target with the "European" Theme.

Being a Eurosceptic, I'd suggest that a representative rifle has to have lofty aims and loads of ancestry, a lot of showy gingerbread which looks fine but contributes nothing and be next to useless for any particular practical application and a good general third best, bronze medal sort of performance.

Duck

Mike

You are quite right of course - stainless and synthetic is the way to go for that sort of hunt.

Sorry, I got happily obsessive regarding the 'Euro' theme - rather than noting the 'not so subtle' curve ball chucked in by Ben.

Euro gun - Drilling, Mmmm good
Alaska - maybe something more bomb-proof!

Rgds Ian

i just need to toss my two cents in here, people did actually use rifles before the advent of the plastic(gag)stock.
elmer keith's double were apparently quite a bit in the alders after grizzly.
when i was in finland last autom during the moose hunt it rained so much that the front sight was rusty before midday, my 9,3 double did'nt miss a beat at any point in time.

ben if you want to bring something special for your trip, all the power to you. buy it, train with it, make sure you know it, and then bring it.

combination guns are in no way lesser beings than the pump cousins being used over there.

to use the same terms then leather saddles will fail in alaska(leather and wood)

ben we are not talking about you dissapiring in the forest for 6 months, are we ?

lets keep it real ?

best regards

peter

(i think you need a double in 9,3 x 74r)

Hi guys thanks for all the advice and concern

If I go into a pampers hunt I will go so prepared as if I am going into the olympic single barrel final...(wishful thinking)

I actually own two 9.3 x 62. I have one stored with a RFD friend and another on my ticket at any time. Perfectly legal in UK.

One is an accururised Howa with a hogue stock but it shoots really straight.

The other is a high grade mauser 03 with all the trimmings.

Before every hunt to dark places, I apply for a variation and exhcange it out to practice for at least 02 months.

I know it is a bit of luxury but you only live once.............

This set up I know from experience will sufice to do everything I intend to do up till the last 02 of the Big 5.

I started this thread just to have a discussion amongst friends since I received an email from my friend at Mauser that they are launching a stutzen this autumn. He wondered if I like to consider pre-ordering one.

For all those who have hunted in Alaska you will know that a side arm is a definite NO NO hence I thrown it in previous posting just to let those in the know that i was joking around thats all.

However I am definitely planning a brown B hunt in the coming 18/12.

I will use my plastic 20 inch 9.3 x 62 with 250 grain A-frame or Barnes.

With this setup I have taken numerous game. It works plain and simple.

As Mr Shoemaker told me over the phone a few months ago - I have not seen a kevlar skin grizzly for many years ..........

Since I started researching for this hunt I have spoken to 04 outfitters in North America.

at the end of the conversation they all ask what gun and caliber I intending to bring?

When I mention a 9.3 x 62 their reaction is always a short pause followed by lots of questions like what is wrong with the good old 338 win mag ? ............

Little they know the wonder of metric calibers

I think this should be a new discussion thread..........

Wonderful world of metric calibers

quote:

Originally posted by londonhunter

For all those who have hunted in Alaska you will know that a side arm is a definite NO NO hence I thrown it in previous posting just to let those in the know that i was joking around thats all.

However I am definitely planning a brown B hunt in the coming 18/12.

I will use my plastic 20 inch 9.3 x 62 with 250 grain A-frame or Barnes.

With this setup I have taken numerous game. It works plain and simple.

As Mr Shoemaker told me over the phone a few months ago - I have not seen a kevlar skin grizzly for many years ..........

Since I started researching for this hunt I have spoken to 04 outfitters in North America.

at the end of the conversation they all ask what gun and caliber I intending to bring?

When I mention a 9.3 x 62 their reaction is always a short pause followed by lots of questions like what is wrong with the good old 338 win mag ? ............

Little they know the wonder of metric calibers

For Alaska, I've used a synthetic/stainless Ruger .338 WinMag but if I had a 9.3x62 I probably would have taken that instead, if it were synthetic/stainless. I've also hunted up there with wood/blue guns but I had to pay more attention to protecting them from the elements. Also for Alaska, more often than not, I carry a stainless Colt Anaconda .44 mag.

I haven't hunted Europe, yet, but when I do I hope to do it with a drilling that I don't have yet.

Namibiahunter

Why wouldn't you carry a sidearm in AK?

quote:

Originally posted by londonhunter:
When I mention a 9.3 x 62 their reaction is always a short pause followed by lots of questions like what is wrong with the good old 338 win mag ? ............

for an American this is a very good point.
over here it would be: .338WM? whats wrong with the good old 9.3x62

quote:

I think this should be a new discussion thread..........

Wonderful world of metric calibers

you should definately start one.
the good ones can probably be counted on one hand, but still...

I just got back from shooting my 9.3x62. Here in Texas when you talk about shooting that caliber, you always get a blank look like you are speaking another language.

ben

why dont you get a nice 9,3x74r double rifle instead, they go for decent money at the auctions, and are a shitload of fun to carry and shoot, usually you can get into the game for below 2500-3000£(that is usually with clawmounts allready installed) but be forwarned you cant have only one.

i have firm plans to corrupt ianf later this year, as it looks like he is almost ready to come over to the dark side

best

peter

quote:

Originally posted by Claret_Dabbler:
Ben, if a new stutzen is on the menu, it would have to be a Sauer in 308win.

I checked one out when we were in Germany in January, beautifully balanced rifle:

If you changed the bolt knob to a round one, and made that stock straight, I might have considered on of these.

Peter

I am already beyond redemption!



Rgds Ian

A Sauer, Ian??

- mike

quote:

Originally posted by 460wby:


If you changed the bolt knob to a round one, and made that stock straight, I might have considered on of these.

Arild, Sauer offers quite a few options for their "202" series. E.g. See here:



http://www.sauer-waffen.de/index.php?id=66&lang=en

I know of people ordering straight rear stocks, and I have seen several types of bolt knobs. It might be worth a try to contact them...

- mike

quote:

Originally posted by IanF:
Peter

I am already beyond redemption!

Rgds Ian

oh but there is always room for another double in the gun cabinet, just wait and see, i think i might have the 7x57r ready by then

or i could bring one of the 12 gauges but then we would have to invite amir as well

best regards

peter

quote:

Originally posted by peterdk:

quote:

Originally posted by IanF:
Peter

I am already beyond redemption!

Rgds Ian

oh but there is always room for another double in the gun cabinet, just wait and see, i think i might have the 7x57r ready by then

or i could bring one of the 12 gauges but then we would have to invite amir as well

best regards

peter

Present!

Hell - where Americans manafacture German designed rifles (and Italians shoot them!).

IMHO German rifles that have a US style to them bring out the best - eg K95 with US stock etc.

For an Alaskan hunt I'd be taking an M98 (can't get more rugged or quintessentialy German) in a McMillan with a Swaro in QD tallies. A mongrel or the best of their respective countries dependant on your viewpoint.

quote:

Originally posted by peterdk:

oh but there is always room for another double in the gun cabinet, just wait and see, i think i might have the 7x57r ready by then
peter[/QUOTE]

I wait - in antici.....pation!

Mikey

Yes - she is a Sauer and the second love of my life!

Rgds Ian

quote:

Originally posted by IanF:
Yes - she is a Sauer and the second love of my life!

Ian, good you remembered "second" - it could get dangerous otherwise...

The safety on the side is what gives it away as a Sauer. I'm not sure if any other Drillings have that feature?? I seem to recall it is a traditional safety design, but the name escapes me at the moment.

Nice gun!

- mike

'Greener style safety' are the words on the tip of your tongue!

Rgds Ian