Hi,

Bad news for us from the EU, once again. This time it's the wolf hunting.

EU has decided to raise charges against Finland in the EU-court, because of our wolf-hunting. We officially have at least 150 wolves here, and most probably the number is significantly bigger. In addition, wolves keep coming over the border from Russia and at the moment we have more wolves than we've ever had after the 1930's.

Some 15 wolf licenses per year have been given for hunters for the last 5 years or so, and at the same time the number of wolves has been increasing. However, the EU thinks that these few yearly licenses have been admitted too carelessly, and we'll meet in court.

Wolves kill quite a lot of sheep and other cattle animals here, and also hunting dogs. Last year alone some 70 dogs were killed by wolves during hunting (of other animals than wolves) and some even at peoples houseyards.

The tragicomic thing in the situation is, that these 15 yearly licenses have been regarded overrated, but far more are killed illegally every year, and the number of wolves just keeps increasing...

How do you fellow hunters handle wolves in your countries, if you have them?

We're not allowed to "handle" them in Norway. To put it simply, you'd almost get more jail time for illegally shooting a wolf than another human being... The funny thing is that we didn't actually have to "protect" them as a part of the Bern convention. But some smartasses made sure that we signed up for that anyway. Unfortunatly it seems like a bunch of misinformed burocrates, and pro wolf fanatics are in charge of things.

My parents live in Wyoming there are 495,000 people and it's 253596 square kilometers.

Wolves are getting to be a big deal. Some National Park Service and Federal Fish and Wildlife service greenies illegally introduced (without the states consent) wolves back into the Yellowstone ecosystem.

The wolves have left the Yellowstone and are now about 100 miles away. The packs have grown and now there are about 2500 wolves in a 200 square mile area.

Wyoming wants to handle the wolves as we do coyotes. Shoot on site outside of the Yellowsone and Teton national parks. The federal goverment and Wyoming are battling in court right now about this.

Most folks say the best way is the tree S's Shoot, shovel, and shut up.

When I lived in Alaska I thought wolves were great, and wolves are great, provided that your not trying to make a living raising, reindeer, sheep, or cattle.

Yeah, the EU has a tendency of sticking their collective noses into matters one would consider best handled at a local level. Here is to all the grand visions of a United States of Europe (not!).
- mike

ErikD: That's interesting. I actually thought you had the practical policy with wolves in Norway, beacause I remember reading of some wolf-shooting from a helicopter some years back. But times change, I guess.
We have also been to EU-court because of spring-time waterfowl hunting, which is practiced in a very limited scale on our coast.
How's that in Norway?

kokdyer: You really have some wolves there in Wyoming! That three S's is the way wolves are treated in many remote areas here, too.

I don't think every wolf should be shot , but this practice that we have nowadays (which EU thinks is too careless) makes the wolves behave disturbingly, since they can mostly do whatever they want and take dogs and cattle from peoples yards without too much danger.

If I could decide, every wolf in sight of an inhabited house should be allowed to shoot without questioning. This would make the wolves cause far less trouble than they do now.

quote:

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Originally posted by mho:
Yeah, the EU has a tendency of sticking their collective noses into matters one would consider best handled at a local level. Here is to all the grand visions of a United States of Europe (not!).
- mike

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And the subsidiarity (primarily local decision making) should be one of the key principles of the EU! In reality, it's quite the opposite.

I have never believed in or liked the idea of the EU. There just aren't opportunities to make it work, when there are so many different cultures, languages and mentalities in different countries. The absurdity of the system can be seen clearly in it's efforts to make a monocultural legislation for the whole EU, which is pure madness. The wolf hunting ban is only one expression of that.

quote:

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posted Jan 14, 8:08 AM
ErikD: That's interesting. I actually thought you had the practical policy with wolves in Norway, beacause I remember reading of some wolf-shooting from a helicopter some years back. But times change, I guess.
We have also been to EU-court because of spring-time waterfowl hunting, which is practiced in a very limited scale on our coast.
How's that in Norway?

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IN very rare occations, a wolf will be shot by the authorities if that specific wolf has been documented killing enough sheep (or dogs, although a dogs life is not very valuable to our govt. even though it might be a cherished family member to those who loose it...).
At the moment there is a female wolf that will supposedly be taken out because she has killed over 35 dogs (and most likely some sheep. Can't quite remember). The only real reason they are going to let her be shot is that she's so old that they think she's past being able to reproduce. And thus not worth much to them anymore...

I know several forest owners who have had their moose quota cut in half in the past decade! With timber prices as low as they are nowadays, extra income from hunting (and selling moose meat) is important to them. I guess if the govt. cut part of the the income of some Café Latté drinking, urban people, there would be an uproar. But it seems that those who don't live in the city are not as valued...

As to hunting in the spring. It's not done, and hasn't been for ages.

I think that generally, a govt. saying that they "have to" do something because of the EU or Bern Convention, is only using that as an excuse. I've gotten the impression that many things concerning nature and wildlife can be adjusted to local conditions, and that it is perhaps more the case of those in power (and the lobbies) who have become too urbanized, and have their own agenda.

I don't believe in the concept of the EU either. There are some concepts that needed repiprocity (spelling), but honestly what's the point.

Do you want someone from Spain telling you how many trees you can cut down, or someone from France telling you how many guns you can own, or Somone from Ireland keeping you from that you have to clean up these sections of river.

Eventually there will be a EU goverment with the power to tell you what you will do and when.

I love my home country America. But individual states rights get crapped on everyday. Someone in New York can decide wether or not I kill wolves in Wyoming. Someone in San Francisco can decide how many fish I am allowed to take in Alaska.

Your individual country rights need to be maintained. We have lost this in the USA, and will probably never get it back.

kokdyer,

Are you sure those figures are correct? I just can't see there being 2500 wolves in an area of 14 miles by 14 miles (approx 200 square miles) I have heard of single packs having/needing bigger areas than that..

Regards,

Pete

Pete,

Let me open my mouth and insert some boot leather. The Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem is probably bigger than 150x150 miles in area. 150x150 isn't 200, it's 22,500.

200 square miles sounds like a lot, but when you really think about it, it's not. I don't know what I was thinking (obviously I wasn't).

Thanks for the reality check!