Hullo,
I'm curious, in three different books I have, the date of introduction for the 9.3x64 is said to be;
Before 1914, 1926 and 1930.
Does any one know which, if any, of these dates is correct?
Many thanks.

...it was around 1910...

sources:

http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/article.cfm?tocid=1379&magid=95
http://www.chuckhawks.com/9-3x64mm.htm

Oldun,

I just just took a quick gander through some German websites and like mouse93 pointed out; they coincide with the American references - 1910 for the 9.3x64 Brenneke.

Hope this helps.

I have a brochure here that the Brenneke company sent me titled “History of the Firm of Wilhelm Brenneke 1895 – 1995â€. It has a chronology of inventions and developments. I’ve copied the relevant pages below, but it seems to indicate a 1927 development date.

It would be interesting to know what the original sources for the other dates mentioned are. There must be a good reason for the confusion.

- stu

Stu,
Thank you for posting the Brenneke information.
The sources for the dates posted by me are;
1. prior to 1914 - Any Shot You Want; editor. A. B. Alphin, A-Square, 1996.
2. 1926 - Mauser Bolt Rifles; 3rd ed., by L. Olsun, Brownell & Son, 1976.
3. 1930 - Reloading Manual; Vihtavouri Oy, 2nd ed., Vihtavuori Oy, 1995.

I find it interesting that Olsun, who is a Mauser historian got closest to the mark.

It is not uncommon amongst "modern scholars" to refer to articles which are often references, not original sources. It was good of you to provide an original source.
I find it of interest that Hawks got the date wrong. I have pointed out to him before that some of his information is in error and in one case that he just did not understand what he had written. Hey ho!
It is a possibilty that the date in the Brenneke article is wrong, but untill any one can shew that to be the case then I think we have to accept that Brennekes' date above is the correct one.
Once again, Thanks.

Copula ergo sum.

...hmmm thats interesting indeed - allmost all sources agree that in 1927 9,3x64 did hit the market and I guess that is actually the official date of 9,3x64 introduction...tho if I can read it right (from the brochure) 1927 it says "as a fully new development" (I am speculating) - could it be that Mr. Brenneke actually did invent the cartridge around 1910 but its development had been put to a stop (9,3x62 covering bases, known lack of convenient constructed bullets - look at the developement of TIG bullet 1917-1927...) and the project was revived in 1926 to be officially introduced in 1927 also considering a 9,3x64 as an answer to .375 H&H in the days between WW?

P.S. Perhaps someone should do a link to "Medium bore forum" - maybe guys there would know some more?

quote:

Originally posted by mouse93:
...hmmm thats interesting indeed - allmost all sources agree that in 1927 9,3x64 did hit the market and I guess that is actually the official date of 9,3x64 introduction...tho if I can read it right (from the brochure) 1927 it says "as a fully new development" (I am speculating) - could it be that Mr. Brenneke actually did invent the cartridge around 1910 but its development had been put to a stop (9,3x62 covering bases, known lack of convenient constructed bullets - look at the developement of TIG bullet 1917-1927...) and the project was revived in 1926 to be officially introduced in 1927 also considering a 9,3x64 as an answer to .375 H&H in the days between WW?

P.S. Perhaps someone should do a link to "Medium bore forum" - maybe guys there would know some more?

I looked in the german RWS "Wiederladebuch", the date of introduction is there 1927.

yes I guess there is no doubt about introduction date anymore - tho it would be interesting to know the date it was invented becouse perhaps that is the main reason of the different dates that occur...

quote:

Originally posted by Monastery-Forester:

I looked in the german RWS "Wiederladebuch", the date of introduction is there 1927.

Thanks Monastry, I rather hoped some one like your good self would confirm the date from a German source.

Mouse93.
I took the view that the wording "a fully new develpment" as refering to the fact that the 9.3x64, like Her Brennekes' other x64 cartridges, is a cartridge conceived and designed around a new case which had not been used in any other cartridge. The 9.3 calibre is common in Europe therefore any new cartridge is a development, not a completely new cartridge.

Thank you all for your contributions.

Whilst at a friends yesterday he got out a copy, of the Vihtavouri loading manual No 3. There for the 9.3x64 under year if introduction is the date 1927.
That we can, with some confidence, say is the correct date.

"Cartridges of the World" by Barnes doesn't give a date but says that 'most' of Brenneke's developments were around 1910 . Maybe it's the difference between 'most' and specifically the 9.3x64. Another possibility for many cartridges is a halt in development because of WWI or WWII.

It's has been my understanding the around 1910 date refers to the Brenneke slug and 1912 the 8x64. Infact it can be read in the copy of the Brenneke history above.
QED.

...just to confirm it bit more - invention and introduction date are the same 1927 - guys over Brenneke were very friendly - recieved e-mail from Brenneke today:

My question:

Dear Brenneke guys!

Recently we were into a discussion about the date of invention of 9,3x64
Brenneke. Some sources are saying it was in 1910 and other that it was in
1927. To end the confusion, I would like You to tell us the exact date.

Yours sincerelly!

*

P.S. You can reply on my e-mail: *

Reply:

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: * [mailto:*]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 18. Mai 2006 13:49
An: info@brenneke.de
Betreff: 9,3x64 Brenneke info

Dear *,

the invention date of the 9,3x64 BRENNEKE was in 1927. If you are
interesting in the history of BRENNEKE we will be pleased to send you a
brochure. Therefore please send us your complete adress.

Best regards

Heike Engelke

BRENNEKE GMBH
Ilmenauweg 2, 30851 Langenhagen /Germany

Tel.: + 49 511 97 26 20 / FAX: +49 511 9 72 62 62