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I have now found the/a proper list of rifle calibres legal for hunting boar etc in France/ Belgium. Military calibres are not permitted but they do tolerate them if you are only passing through ie on to Germany etc.I have bought a 7x64 for this purpose and the ballistics are fantastic esp on the 175 gn bullets. Finding this list has been a long and time consuming preocess, so here it is. 270 Win 270 Weath 280 Rem 7-08 7x57R 7x64 7x65R 7x75R.SE 7 RM 30R Blaser 300 H+H Mag 300 Win mag 300 weath mag 308 Norma Mag 8x57 JRS 8x60S 8x68S 338 Winmag 35 Whelen 9.3x62 Mauser 9.3x74R 444 Marlin 350 Rem mag Regards Mark Hunting is getting as close as you can, shooting is getting as far away as possible. | ||
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Mark, I'm not sure what you're trying to say. It seems like a list of the more common legal cartridges but surely there are many others not on that list. I can't see one wildcat and I don't know of any prohibitions on non-factory rounds. I'm a bit confused.  - stu | |||
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in france, many (all?) military or ex-military calibres are prohibited, like 30-06 or 308 win and 7x75 as well i think. i am not sure if this is what you are confused about? Spain has a few odd laws too if anyone needs help. | |||
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Dear Stu C I am only dealing with the more common rounds as that is what you are going to commonly find. Wildcat rounds and custom calibres are another thing altogether. This is just a simple list for those who wish to hunt in France where the advice from all official sources in vague. I have found its always easier to go hunting with the calibres you can easily get ammunition for at the local gun shop. Hunting is getting as close as you can, shooting is getting as far away as possible. | |||
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Hi Julain Can you tell us about spanish odd laws. it is always good to know - hi mark the EU weapon passport dosen't authorized you to bring your gun even if it is not allowed for hunting to France/belgium? regards yes Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. | |||
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Hi Yes This is exactly the problem, you cannot correctly fill in the EU pass because there is no address to send it to. The laws are confusing even to the French Embassy. I did travel through France last year with permission (sort of) and had no problems at the boarder with customs( I notified all the consulates sa well before I travelled and had a listv of 24 hour contact numbers just in cas an official changed his mind. Having said that I now have a 7x64 so no more calibre problems. Hunting is getting as close as you can, shooting is getting as far away as possible. | |||
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Thanks for the list Mark. that is very helpful. I'm still looking at a 6.5 calibre for this purpose bbut it has had to take a demotion on priority to othher commitments for now. Thanks again Rgds, | |||
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Mark, What 175grain bullets have you tried in your 7x64? | |||
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Dear Erik I am at this moment developing a load for 175gn Speer Magtips. Velocity should be about 800-850 m/s. They should be perfect for boar and fallow/red deer. 7x64 is very difficult to get in the UK but I hope to try some of the RWS when I gio over to Germany. Do you have any recommendations, on paper the ballistics appear almost too good to be true. Regards Mark Hunting is getting as close as you can, shooting is getting as far away as possible. | |||
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Spain: no 308 win in semi-auto weapons, only bolt, pump or single shot, and only expanding bullets, no fmj cos this is military. Some such as the FALs and CETMEs can be converted to .307, which is 7,62 x 51 rimmed. And guess what, it still shoots 308 ok too, cos all they have done is open up the bolt face slightly to take the rim. Same for 7,62 x 39. Can only posess 200 rounds total in metallic rifle ammo and 150 for pistol (this includes .22lr!) No .50bmg, although if you could find a rimmed versio of it, thats ok, or even 600 nitro express, no problem! No .223 AT ALL, although some guns are rechambered to 222 rem No hunting with 22 rimfire or airweapons, or pistols. hope this is of use, if anyone needs more elaboration, please ask. Can only posess 1kg of powder and 100 primers at a time, and you need a course, buy an approved press, keep it in a safe when not in use and have a fire extinguisher next to you when loading. Remember you can still only have total of 200 rounds rifle and 150 pistol! | |||
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Mark, I have no recommendations as I don't have a 7x64 yet. But the thing is that I am in the process of checking out various options to have one built for me, and will hopefully have one in my posession by spring/summer time! I don't know about what is available of factory ammo such as RWS, as I will mainly load myself anyway. But I have seen that Woodleigh and Swift also makes 175grain bullets, and would think these would be a good option for heavier game such as our scandinavian moose.  | |||
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MarkH, I think it would have been easier to make a list of what is considered "1st categorie" in France or military calibers, than to make a list of legal calibers, it would be shorter and whatever is not on the list would be legal. For instance: .223 Remington (5,56 Nato) 6.5 Swedish 30.06 Springfield .30 Krag .308 Winchester (7,62 Nato) 7,62 X 39 7X57 8X57 JS .303 British Now, the above list is not exhaustive but there aren't too many sporting arms chambered for the other military calibers. If your caliber is not on the above list then it is legal for hunting. _________________________________ AR, where the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history become the nattering nabobs of negativisim. | |||
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France? I would pick 7x64, 9,3x62, or .300WinMag. Why? Chapuis, Verney-Carron and Unique used to chamber bolt guns in these calibers. They still may produce them, I don't know. | |||
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hi is there any non magnum 30 caliber round which I can rechamber my 3006 in order to be able to have it in france like ackley imp or something else? regards yes Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. | |||
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Improved calibers won't pass muster in France because you can still chamber the original 30.06 cartridge. If you set the barrel back and turn it into a 30.06 "Short" (my name for what one riflemaker in France named Cartry does to Garands and 03's, I think he calls it the 30.06 Cartry Court or the 30.06 Sporting) so that a 30.06 Springfield won't chamber then you can use the same barrel. But then you've got a wildcat, you'll have to size your own brass (and it can't have 30.06 as a head stamp). You're choices are rebarrel and rechamber to another caliber (and the choices are many since the action will take dozens of calibers)or buy another rifle. I tend to buy another rifle wheither I need one or not. _________________________________ AR, where the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history become the nattering nabobs of negativisim. | |||
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Hi Wiink I wonder if it is possible to rechamber my 06 to 0,30 blaser? is it only in rimmed version? or there are rimless 30 blaser too. i know that some 3006 break open gun has been converted to 30 R blaser. i can't find case dimension for the round and don't know how difficult is to convert a bolt action(ruger 77) to accept rimmed rounds. there have been some bolt actions in rimmed cartridges 303 enfeild, 8 mm lebel and so on.  yes Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. | |||
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yes, I've never seen a bolt-action 30R Blaser. That doesn't mean there aren't any; just I would consider the benfeits arrived at from the conversion less than the expense and headache of trying to make it work (and the value of a good Ruger Model 77). From the French legal cartridge perspective; like Wink, I always consider what is allowed and go from there. Cartridge lists from French Manufacturers and Gunshops since they purvey what is legal. Lots of stuff we normaly do not consider, 7mm/08 Remington, 260 Remington, 270 Winchester, 7x64 Brenneke and bunches of 7mm Rem Mag and 300 Win Mag which are both very popular in France and easy to obtain ammo elsewhere. Cheers, Number 10 | |||
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hi Gerry i have lived in frane when i was a young man(long ago).then 7x64 was popular and there was a lot of guys hunting boar with browning BAR in 300 wm and some 338 wm. i knew the guys who converted m98 from js to jrs to have it classed as catgory 5 instead of one. there are laws and exceptions. well i doubt if i will hunt in france,but i may travel to spain passing through France. i don't know if my euro-pass help me to carry it as trasit or need to ask permission. the day i've planned to do that .i'll call the french cosulate and ask them for advise, regards yes Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. | |||
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This is very useful. How hard it is to find ammunition for these cartridges in Paris? Which are the most common? merci, Okie John "The 30-06 works. Period." --Finn Aagaard | |||
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Okie this is not a scientific post, but from bumbling arround lots of gunshops in Paris and in other cities/towns I'd say you find these being most common (not set in stone just my thoughts): 270 Win 7-08 7x57R 7x64 7x65R 7 RM 30R Blaser 300 Win mag 8x57 JRS 35 Whelen 9.3x62 Mauser 9.3x74R 444 Marlin What is funny in France is that both pump rifles in 35 Whelen, and lever guns in 444 Marlin are pretty popular in France with driven boar hunters. I've seen more of them being used in France than I've ever seen being used in the US. The ammo for both is pretty easy to find. Prices can be high though... Before all else, be armed. Machiavelli | |||
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Is the 'no pistol' law in Spain quiet new? or does it just relate to hunting with pistol calibres? I know of a US hunter that still hunts with a pistol (TC single shot) over there I think it's .309JDJ ( A .444 marlin case necked down to .308) When the SAS trooper was asked under oath, why he had shot the terrorist 15 times he replied "because I ran out of bullets" | |||
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If that don't beat all! I'd have thought for sure that a 35 Whelen would be nearly impossible to find outside the US. I feel much better having one now! thanks, Okie John "The 30-06 works. Period." --Finn Aagaard | |||
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Your countrys gun laws are even harder than in Sweden it seems. I thought Sweden was best in prohibition, but how many rifles and shotguns are you allowed to own. In sweden the total is 6, but in many areas problems begin with gun number 5. So the limit is in real life for many of us just 4 guns.
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We can have, with the E licence, 6 shotguns and 6 .22lr rifles. (but the .22lr cannot be used for hunting) With the D licence we can have 5 rifles, in any calibre that is not prohibited, so for instance i can't have a .223 at all but 5 x 700 nitro express is ok! (Actually i think the law was clarified a while ago to say that you can only CARRY and USE 5 at a time, you can OWN as many as you wish! This apparently came about as a politician was told he could only have 5 rifles, hence the change :-) The F licence is only for target shooting, and could be for shotgun, rifle or pistol, but only 1 gun at the lowest level, 6 if you do well and get enough points in a competition to go up to level 2, and 10 if you are good enough to shot at nacional level. You can have 1 each of type D, E and F licence so you can have quite a few guns if you wish. There is also a seperate one for black powder weapons which covers as many rifles, pistols and shotguns as you want, but they can only be used for hunting in certain areas i believe. It is also 'theoretically' possible to get a B licence for a pistol for self-defence, but these are becoming hard to get or renew and you really have to be a judge or something similar where your life carries a real risk to stand much chance of it been granted.
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Thanks, for the answer. The only "easy" thing here seems to be handloading, no permits needed, exept that you own a rifle or shot gun in the right caliber owned by you. And as far as I know no limits of how many cartidges you load and keep at home. But limits on how much powder to keep at home (I´m not quite certain but if I remember correct) it is 2,5 kg and 2 000 primers. | |||
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Good thread so far gentlemen. And very informative. I must say however that reading this really makes me appreciate living in Texas where, with the exception of a machine gun, a rifle with a silencer or barrel shorter than 16", we can own just about everything. And as many as we want too! And, for the sake of argument, we can own a machine gun, a silencer, or short barreled rifle - we just have to have the proper licenses. But no real licenses to speak of for everything else! Thank you Mark for starting this thread. I hope to hunt Europe someday and it is nice to see what's available. Jason "Chance favors the prepared mind." | |||
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Tex21, in France the caliber restrictions aren't really felt as much of a restraint. Since you can buy just about any hunting caliber traditionally used in Europe, including most all of the modern US cartridges, as in all the WinMags 300, 338, 458, all the Weatherbys, all the traditional British cartridges as well as the old standards like 270 Win, 300 and 375 H&H, etc. Nobody really feels like they are missing out by not being able freely acquire a hunting rifle in 30.06 or .308 Win or .223 or 303 British. This said, it is possible to buy a rifle with these chamberings and it is the same administrative process as buying a handgun. I own several handguns. It does require a little bit of paperwork but it is not all insurmountable. To add to all this, you need no licence whatsoever to own a silencer for any weapon in France. So, because of cultural and political reasons the gun laws are slightly different. There is a reason for the licencing requirement related to military cartridges. The US parachuted into France, and the German army left behind, enormous quantities of 30.06 and 8X57 ammunition, as well as a great number of automatic weapons that fire these calibers. The idea that unknown thousands of MG 42s or M30s and small army quantities of ammunition were still in attics and basements pushed them to require licencing. But I repeat, the licence is not that hard to get. How hard is it to get a licence for a silencer in the USA? _________________________________ AR, where the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history become the nattering nabobs of negativisim. | |||
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I have 7-08 .......... but hanker after going back to a 7 x 57, how about if its called a 275 Rigby ? Would that pass muster ? Any comments welcome. Tks | |||
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Even if called 275 Rigby it's still a 7X57. The customs agents, at the airport at least, don't rely on their memory when they aren't sure about a caliber and they have a typed list of every caliber (under all of it's different names) for both 1st Category (primarily military calibers, both handgun and rifle) and 4th category (primarily non-military revolver cartridges) and if the caliber is on the list then you can't bring it in without an import licence. _________________________________ AR, where the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history become the nattering nabobs of negativisim. | |||
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275rigby has allways been the accepted loophole in the view of the UK guntrade...... Any chance of getting one of those lists? | |||
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I don't have the list myself, having only seen a customs agent pull one out when looking at my rifles once a few years ago. I'll check around and see what I can come up with. _________________________________ AR, where the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history become the nattering nabobs of negativisim. | |||
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Just heard from a friend in the UK that one of his clients was denied permission to take a 303 Holland and Holland double rifle into France. Some of the authorities and lawmakers must have been influenced by too much fine wine and cognac if that was considered a destructive device of some sort.  Mehul Kamdar "I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."-- Patrick Henry | |||
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