I am not talking about fanciful products like a bullet that never misses, but what stalking/hunting products would you like to see available in your home country?

The UK used to be dreadful for dedicated stalking equipment, but there has been a big improvement over the last five years. We now get good quality, *quiet* waterproof clothing from Scandinavia and prices seem to be coming down too. We also get quite a reasonable selection of things like deer calls, roe sacks ect again mostly imported from Europe at varying prices.

Still, when I look at Cabela’s, Kettner or Franconia, I know there is a huge amount of equipment and clothing out there which I would love to be available in the UK.

Regards,

Pete

What Scandinavian brands of clothing are available in GB? Chevalier I presume, and H�rkila/Seeland? The former does not offer value for money compared to other Scandinavian brands in my opinion, the latter is good but expensive. I belive Woodline and/or Swedteam clothing and Ullfrotte thermal underwear are unavailable in GB? I should put them on the wish-list if I were you.

Woodline's website is all in Swedish (http://www.woodline.se) but I guess they have international ambitions as they put names like "Moorland" on their products.

Swedteam's website is also in Swedish (http://www.swedteam.com) but they have representatives all over Europe exept in GB...

Ullfrott� has a website in English (http://www.ullfrotte.se/) but don't seems to have a British representative either.

Primarily: a larger selection of reloading components at prices much closer to US prices!!! Other than that, we can probably pretty much get what we need here on the Continent - which naturally does not stop us from looking at all the interesting stuff available in other countries.

Example of very nice clothing available over the Net at semi-reasonable prices: Swazi from NZ. Obviously some people (like myself) buy a ton of stuff from the States, and even the UK has interesting stuff, such as these gaiters I found the other day, look good (have only tried lower neoprene gaiters, and they work a champ!)! UK Neoprene Gaiters

- mike

I was very pleased to see the British Deer Society start selling the fold up "roe safe" below.





I say that not so much because I need one, but because it means that somebody has recognised a specialist need with the UK.



Personally, I would like to see more specialist clothing (ie quiet/waterproof) along with things like tree stands..



For those intrested in reloading components Reloading Solutions here in the UK do a good range although not as cheap as the States. They have a website but I am not sure of the address...



Regards,



Pete

Marterius,

I would say the biggest Scandinavian brand on our shelves is Deerhunter and over the last few years they have come to dominate that section of our market. Seeland has started being market in magazines, but does not have the same presence as yet. Chevalier is avilable, but is expensive as you say and because of that I doubt if it sells in any volume when compared to Deerhunter.

Regards,

Pete

Pete E: Ok, Deerhunter is in my opinion decent middle-range stuff. I prefer Woodline any day.

By the way, my best and most comfortable jacket for stalking and shooting is a British made smock identical to the one that the British special forces use. I have one in Swedish Army camo, with some sort of goretex-style lining, made by the British firm Arctic. I dislike modern hunting jackets for being too short, this one is long enough and also has a good hood. Perfect in the mountains or in a rainy wood.

The smocks are not Swedish Army issue, but they are bought privetly and used by special forces officers and our FN-troops.

/Martin

Martin,

I think I have the smock you mean and also have a pair of trousers by the same people. The trousers are kinda of strange as they don't open like normal trousers but have straps on the side like babies nappies!

If you want a jacket that knocks spots of the Arkis smock,
take a look at the Kammo Jacket...very expensive, but 100% bombproof...The outer cottom material is waterproof to a greater degree than ventile (independantly tested & verified) and it has a further goretex style lining...It is long (nearly knee length) and has a high collar and a few small features designed for the stalker...it was designed by a stalker for stalkers...

http://www.kammo.co.uk

regards,

Pete

Thanks Pete, those Kammo jackets looks very nice. Not so very much more expensive than a breathable waterproof Arctic Smock either. I have never heard of them before.

Considering the comments I get about my tweed breechs, I think I will pass the trousrers with nappie-straps features...

Gentlemen

I thing I really disslike about some of the scandinavian stuff is that it has to many pockets and small details in materials that will look tacky after some times in the woods. Actually, some army stuff is very good quality and looks alright compared to some of the over decorated commercial stuff. The Norwegians make some good products for mountian hunting. I would like Barbour to make their ventile jacket again, in sizes that are adjusted for those of us that are tall and has long arms. I wish they did away with the ragland sleves

Marterius
A loden jacket would do just fine with the tweed breechs

Cheers
/ JOHAN

Martin,



Kammo was the "pioneer" of the quiet/waterproof stalkers jacket here in the UK...Fleece and other similar materials is quieter than the original Kammo, but their latest material is almost suede like in feel and comes in a cammo patern similar to the modern Mossy Oak/Advantage types prints.



Johan



I know what you mean about the zips and gadgets. I have had my Deerhunter coat about 12 months when just after Christmas I was caught out in very heavy rain for about 4 hours...On the whole the jacket was not bad but I found it was leaking around all the various zips and pockets. In Deerhunters defence, I have spoken to other people with similar jackets and they say their jackets have always been waterproof whatever the weather.



The Deerhunter jacket is about hlf the price of the Kammo, but the outer material is no wherenear as strong and in my case at least, it was not as waterproof as my old Kammo jacket.. In short, I doubt it will last as long...I think they are decent value for money, but you do get what you pay for!



The other style of coat you don't see much over here is the Loden jackets. I quite fancy one of those too, especially one of the modern ones with the breathable lining. My only conern about them is they probably need dry cleaning instead of hand washing and i am not sure a dry clean garment is practical for a stalkers jacket the way i use it!

Still, it would be nice for posing in down the range and at the gamefairs!



Regards,



Pete

Johan,
Of course I have a tweed jacket in classical style.
Perfect for stalking roe deer a clear september morning, or to use on the patridge fields. Classical tweed is also good camo in my opinion. But when it starts raining, or snowing,I am very glad to be able to put that smock on top of the tweed jacket.

Sorry Pete, this thread should be about what you want in UK, not what Swedish snobs bring to Scandinavia from your country.

Martin,

No, I want to hear what everybody wants or what they think are good ideas..I value your input about things from Scandinavia as we just don't you the reputation of the brands over here...

Regards,

Pete

Pete E

I think we both know what it's all about. I visited the gunshop the other day. I looked at some clothes. Most of the makers doesn't inform you what fabric they are useing. Often is say's "micro fiber" "gore tex laminated", "mollskinn like" or "two layer water proof fabric". Explains everything you like to know



Most of them are poorly designed, seems are not straight or lineing is not properly fitted. Useing leather, suede or fake material on a jacket that you can machine wash It will look tacky sooner than you think



I think loden is a great thing, very silent and classic. I have heard that some maker is using "machine wash" loden. I can't remember who Ventile is great fabric for rainy day's



Martin, I know, I know I was just trying to annoy you a bit about loden



Cheers

JOHAN

The Kammo is indeed an excellent jacket - nearly indestructible but better suited to the Northern stalker as it is quite thick, a little stiff and weighs a lot. The cheaper deer hunter jacket is actualy better than the Kammo for us soft southerners. I have a Ram version. The first thing I did when I bought it was to carefully cut out nearly every pocket zip it had. It has proven completely waterproof in 72hours of torrential rain. The only fault was wicking up the sleeves, something my Fjallraven also suffers from (too expensive IMO)



I would like to see a loden style roe sac that actualy takes a roe buck without 10 minutes of swearing and houdini style antics all the while getting more and more blood everywhere. It would probably need compression straps when not filled.



I would also like to see a European 1" tube 1.5-6x42 scope, an illuminated reticle swarovski 6x42 and 7x42 Swarovski ELs

Pete,
I have no doubt that all the products we would like to be available in this country and at a price that is acceptable, could be if it were not for the greedy importers and others who's hand the merchandise passes through before finally coming to rest in ours.

I recently rang an importer who stocked the burris black diamond.In the Cabelas mag it was �300/600$ approx, bearing in mind that was a retail price,and that the price payed by the importer would be trade, this importer was retailing the self same scope in the U.K for �800/1600$

We imported some Wipeout from Terry Paul in the U.S. we decided the best way to sell this product was through an agent. This particular agent wanted 40% comission an explained if the gunshops couldn't make a 100% then they would not be interested!!!!

A quick calculation will tell you who makes the money, a product soon becomes over expensive, and at who's expense!!!

I am constantly being reminded how cheap the products are in Cabelas the U.S and other countries, the answer is simple don't buy in the U.K.!!
Import it in yourself,order online, anything but cut out these greedy little B******s.


Griff

The same thing in Spain. Mostly anything is available here but prices are outrageously expensive, with consumers being systematically ripped off.

Last wee a friend of mine bought a Bushnell Pro Legend range finder from Bear Basin. It was delivered to his door through FEDEX, I believe, in 48 hours.

Total cost was 340�. The "regular" price here is 580�

montero

Yup experienced that myself too. Ordered a Harrel measure and redding comp dies direct from the states for the same price in $ that I would have paid in � over here. The Harrel arrived before my credit card was billed.

BUT it does pay to try and buy non specialist stuff localy too if possible. That local shop may be a bit more expensive but try and get Cabela's to take the pull through out your barrel when it snaps a day before your hunting trip.

With regards the people who have ordered from Cabelas, don't they hit you quite hard for international postage/shipping?

Looking at their web site, for airmail, you are talking a minimum of $35 or 40% of the order... a friend ordered some boots by surface mail to save a bit and it took so long to arrive that I swear somebody actually put them on and walked over!

I have had more luck when I have dealt with smaller American shops/outlets...many of those have only charged the actual cost of shipping rather than some set fee...

Regards,

Pete

1894,

I have found a couple of different styles of Loden sacks here in the UK, but I am waiting some info on sizes and I will let you know...

As an alternative material, I wonder if heavy duty moleskin would do? Wrights of Huntly sell decent size liners in a variety of sizes ( up to sika hind!) and I am wondering if my local Saddler would run up the actual sack...maybe Wrights would do it if you supplied them the cloth and the design? The pockets and "leather trim" around them would be the difficult part although not strictly needed?

What do you think? Heavy duty moleskin should be sronger than those cheap linen sacks you see at the gamefair?

Regards,

Pete

About material for the "roe sacks" - here on the Continent, Loden is used quite a lot, although it is the most expensive material for this purpose. However, apart from being quiet, I don't really see the advantage of Loden for a backpack. It is quite a heavy material, expensive and not that super sturdy - although it is quiet. I guess washing is less of a problem for a backpack

The cheapest models are simply canvas: cost very little, last forever, not as quiet as Loden, though. Serviceable.

The best compromise, IMHO, for roe scak material is what is labelled "Jagdleinen" over here - basically a 50/50 cotton/linen mixture. Almost as quiet as Loden, almost as robust as canvas, in between the two in price.

We can get sizes up to somewhere like 60x70cm - don't know if that is large enough for you??

I gather your problem with the existing roe sacks is that you find them a tad small to wrestle a roe into, yes?? (Little wonder) Well, over here they sell what they label a "game transport bag" ("Wildtransportsack"). Basically a rubberized bag that will hold a roe quite easily, either in the car, or carried in the field. It would be a snap to fit one of those into your roe-sack, and fit it with a strap to carry over the shoulder. Useable on demand. I doubt they are that super heavy or voluminous that it would be impractical to carry in your backpack. Easily washable - inside and out. Size: about 65x100cm. Will post price example if anybody is interested (no Frankonia/Kettner catalog at hand).
- mike

Concerning Hunting clothes in Germany we do have quiete a lot Loden things ( www.rascher.de) or other brands like PARFORCE from Franonia which is from rascher too but just the cheaper production line . DUCK VALEY is Frankonia "Own" label and can�t be recommended



Seeland / H�rkila is available here too ..but i only know this because a real small trader order it directly from "the North" (couldn�t remember where it�s been made)and make some advertise on ebay for it.

Swedteam is available too, and i only heared good about it! But realy pricy ;( what realy is sad!



And with Deerhunter

it�s the same like in England..the most popular brand. It increased dramaticaly in the last 3 years..maybe especialy because it�s cheap and is one of the brands who offers clothes in Camouflage.

LAKSEN is available now too, since Frankonia had put it in theire shelves.



For me Deerhunter offers the best value for money! I think that they are not overpriced (like Laksen over 500� for a Jacket)and what i have learned to loves are BIBS which are offered by deerhunter in there Rusky serie too

Have bought me the rusky serie ( Bibs and Jacket) ..for wintertime but haven�t found a chance to test it, because i realy get a bargain on a goosedown / Loden hunting suit (hig cutted trousres and a realy long Jacket) and since i�ve bought it..i only wear this dress

I think i do have a photo of it....let me see...i will put it in here :











@our Friend from SWITZERLAND :

The Firm is OUTDOORS and from the note inside of the clothing it�s sayes that it�s from Switzerland. Do u know where it is available?

It�s realy some nice stuff i only can resommend! Only down thing is when u have no chance to dry it between your hunting activity because the downs will get wet...

I think here is the advantage of Deerhunter or better the advantage of Technical fibres in hunting clothes.



I know Cabelas too and everytime i look in the catalogue my eyes start to get wet because of the choosable things and the prices. Hunting gear realy is inexpensive..and available with nearly any kind of technical thing like membranes, garnments, coulours styles and realy nice.. in extra TALL Sizes!



I�m a little bit in despite: for one reason i like our traditional LODEN but on the other side i like the camo paterns that are available.

www.kingofthemountain.com offers washable virgin wool products with a woven patern and the garnment realy is mashine washable. All hunters that talk about KOM say: it�s the best you can get...but maybe they don�t now loden



I have bought the KOM birdpants for a reduced price...but the costs for shipping to germany and taxes had to be calculated so ..at the end it wasn�t as inexpensive as i thought it would be.

IMHO the garnment is stiffy /rough and not as fine as i thought so it will scratches on the skin.

At the moment i can�t wear the trousers because i "lifted" my weight over the winter time ;( a bit...but hope it will fit in some month, so then i can say more about it. But i guess it can�t be compared to the high level Loden hunting gear that is offered from the germans and from austria (question: btw how do u call the people from austria??=> austriches?? but this are birds or? couldn�t find the correct english word).



Sometimes I�m realy thinking to get me some tweed gear bought ...maybe when i have the money.Looks nice.



But i gues the DEERHUNTER Serie is one of the best sorted and available gear overhere for a reasonable price..so i thing i will get me the montana suit in advantage camo or hardwoods green for spring summer autumn Hunting.



By the way: i get a special price for deerhunter gear. So if any of u is interested...just let me know and i will see what i can do for u.



So..now my fingers begin to hurt from all of the writing ,



cheers and weidmannsheil

Konstantin

Mike,

With regards viewing the Kammo, I think if you contaced them direct, you could arrange a visit to the offices/factory. Its not too far from where i live and i would be interested in taking a look too. Other than that, they have a stand at most of the bigger game fairs during the summer. The only product of theirs I don't like is the waterproof trousers and that is because they are designed as an "over trouser" rather than as normal trousers.

As to the Loden roesacks, as of this evening, I am now the proud owner of a genuine German one!

A friend bought one last year in Germany but never used it. We were talking today and ended up striking a deal/swap for an old Harris Bipod that I no longer used...The liner is 66cm wide by 56cm deep which I think is a reasonable size; above all the sack is quiet. My old sack was bigger and far more robust, but it was just to "scratchy" on my jacket as I walked.

Regards,

Pete

For me it was loden or nothing due to the noise factor. The design was excellent (aside from size)with no metal. I had to replace the liner for a more flexible one and restitch all the fasteners but I now have a sac that is quiet, comfortable and doubles as a rifle rest. My one beef is that at 60x55cm it will load a doe easily enough but a good southern buck (20kg or so field dressed)will take about 5minutes of wrestling after which the thing is liberaly coated in blood.

The ideal sac would IMHO feature some concertina effect where the extra size was held in check for general use and released when a buck was shot.

Hey folks,
if u are interested especialy in Loden Equipment,than i might do have a good Adress for you, try :
http://shop.schmidt-epublishing.de/

They will do every kind of extra/special maufacturing (e.g. Roe Sack)as long as they do have the possibilities to do it.

Don�t know if they speak english..or if the side is available in english too.

I have bought some of their stuff..and all i can say is: first quality ! and real nice service that�s hard to find nowadays.

Just contact them and try what they can do for u.
If u contact them so, please tell Mr. M�ller-Bauer "nice greetings" from me (Konstantin from Berlin).
Mr M�ller-Bauer is a real nice guy...and tries nearly everything to satisfy his customers.

If u do have special questions...maybe i can give u a hand too, because i �ve already see, some of theire products "live".

Al the best
Konstantin

P.S.: take a look at this => http://shop.schmidt-epublishing.de/index.php?cPath=24