Looking for something that will shoot the heavier end of the .22 spectrum at 3300-3500ish fps

Or should I be looking at the 6mmbr type stuff ?

Jacobs,
you will have to fireform the AI unless they have started doing factory, also you might struggle to find someone who stocks 5.6x57 on a regular basis. The other problem would be getting a rifle to shoot heavier bullets if its original twist was not for the heavier rounds. Go with the simple solution. any of the 6mm, shoot 55gn -105 gn without the problem of sourcing.
just my two cents worth.

regards
griff

whats wrong with a 243??????????????

Griff

Fireforming .22-250 AI brass is a relatively simple matter, and as I'd have to roll my own for a AI doing the same for a 5.6X57 would be no hardship. Apart form sourcing a supply of brass in the first instance. also the 5.6%& is designed to shoot the heavier bullets heads so twist rate should be sorted, and I'd have to spec the .22-250 as it would be a r-ebarrell job.

I'm not sure that I could find a factory built 6mmbr or similar.

308

The 6mmbr's types are just that much better.

243 AI all the way,

58gn vmax, point and squirt, spread the love

Jacobs, not being funny but I've never used a 6mmBR. how is it better than a 243?

I've had a 22-250 AI for some time and find it a serious tool for Roe and foxes. It was built by Norman Clark on a Swedish Mauser action with a 1 in 12 Border barrel and just loves 63gr Sierra semi points over 38gr of H380 for 3450 fps. A tad over maximum but has proved safe in this rifle and seriously accurate. Might be persuaded to part with it to a good home

quote:

Originally posted by 308mate:
Jacobs, not being funny but I've never used a 6mmBR. how is it better than a 243?

.308

Now thats a question and a half.How long have you got?

For simplicities sake may I suggest you take a look at the following. As all that you ask is contained within its threads.

"The 6mm BR is one of the most accurate cartridges in existence, bettered only by the PPC type cases in group shooting, and the 30BR in score shooting. The 6BR is very versatile, capable of great accuracy with bullets ranging from 50 to 108 grains."

Source:- http://www.6mmbr.com/6mmbr.html

rgds

Jacobs

"The 6mm BR is one of the most accurate cartridges in existence, bettered only by the PPC type cases in group shooting, and the 30BR in score shooting. The 6BR is very versatile, capable of great accuracy with bullets ranging from 50 to 108 grains."

Not sure how that makes it better than the .243 win and that quote pretty much sums up/describes the .243win

Jon, stop being so bloody rational. Do you not realise that reason has no place in these discussions???

I would recommend 6-284 @ 4000 fps with 70gr bullet.

I would rather have an accurate rifle first and foremost, before chasing strange chamberings.

As with 308mate my accurate 243 has achieved some amazing things over the years

Also the quote - also from the 6mmbr website sums up the 243 win very well

quote:

If you could have just one rifle to slay varmints, hunt white-tails, shoot paper at long range, and duel in tactical matches, it would be hard to beat the .243 Winchester. This versatile "little brother" of the .308 Winchester is a true triple-threat as a match cartridge, varmint cartridge, and game cartridge. With 115gr DTAC bullets, a .243 rivals a 6.5-284 ballistically out to 1000 yards. Shooting 80-100 grain hunting bullets, a .243 will anchor a buck with authority. Driving the light 55-75 grain pills, the .243 provides the flat trajectory and high impact energy varminters love. As a tactical round, the .243 is one of the best, offering excellent ballistics, moderate recoil, and stone-reliable feeding from a detachable magazine.

6 mm Br will not feed for S in most rifles, one has to costum build the magasine wells and all sorts of stuff.

It does come down to are you a hunter or a man with a rifle.

The hunter uses the rifle as a tool, a good one perhaps but that is, the man with the rifle is that guy that lingers at the shooting bench at the range just to have you comment on his rifle.

Who are you?

I like to hunt, that is all I have to say.

Best regards Chris

Jacobs,

going back to your original question, putting aside 6mm stuff.

if home loading is not an issue and you are looking to push the fat end of the .22 spectrum then im sure the 5.6x57 would be the way to go.

if the two calibres have been whittled out of a number of choices then fair play, they would both be pretty good and make alot of stuff dead.
both could be pretty accurate but as for speed , im not sure but wouldn't the 5.6x57 be a touch quicker?

I love these discussions!

On reflection, I cannot recall ever having missed a deer because the cartridge was not powerful/flat/accurate enough.

Sure, there was the time I screwed my eyes shut before yanking the trigger........!

Rgds Ian

I am slowly moving away from the .22-250I and 5.6X57 idea, for a number of reasons and will be looking very intently at the 6mmBR and the other BR derived calibres.

I think itwas Elmer Keith who said only accurate rifles were interesting.

Having read just about everything I can lay my hands on about the 6mmBR family.

I have finally settled on a 6BRX.

All I have to do now is draw up the various components spec list.

Any suggestions?

Sorry I can't be of any practical assistance here.

I have played with a friends 6PPC - and it was easily the most boring rifle I have ever shot.

With 75gn bullets (IIRC) it would shoot bullet on bullet at just about any range you cared to employ it. Teamed with Nightforce glass, the consistency and accuracy were such, that Fallow and Wild boar were taken at ranges I would otherwise not countenance.

Enjoy your new toy - the planning is half the fun! Me? I'm still basking in the glory of stalking and shooting with a Drilling!

Rgds Ian

quote:

Originally posted by IanF:
Sorry I can't be of any practical assistance here.

I have played with a friends 6PPC - and it was easily the most boring rifle I have ever shot.

With 75gn bullets (IIRC) it would shoot bullet on bullet at just about any range you cared to employ it. Teamed with Nightforce glass, the consistency and accuracy were such, that Fallow and Wild boar were taken at ranges I would otherwise not countenance.

Enjoy your new toy - the planning is half the fun! Me? I'm still basking in the glory of stalking and shooting with a Drilling!

Rgds Ian

Pigs with a 6PPC? Surely not?

English stalking with a Drilling. Sorry Ian I can't see any glory in that one, challenge may be, but then you could achieve the same thing by insisting on stalking with a large cow bell tied to the back of the belt on your leather stalking trousers.

As I posted earlier "I think it was Elmer Keith who said only accurate rifles were interesting."

A sentiment I fully concur with.



I take it you mostly stalk by yourself?

quote:

Originally posted by Jacobs:

As I posted earlier "I think it was Elmer Keith who said only accurate rifles were interesting."

A sentiment I fully concur with.

The quote on accurate rifles was actually Col Townsend Whelan. Elmer Keith was the dinosaur who thought a 270win was a marginal coyote rifle inadequate for deer, and a proper deer rifle was a 338win mag.

quote:

Pigs with a 6PPC? Surely not?

English stalking with a Drilling. Sorry Ian I can't see any glory in that one, challenge may be, but then you could achieve the same thing by insisting on stalking with a large cow bell tied to the back of the belt on your leather stalking trousers.

As I posted earlier "I think it was Elmer Keith who said only accurate rifles were interesting."

A sentiment I fully concur with.



I take it you mostly stalk by yourself?

Jacobs -

I take it then, you have no experience of the accuracy potential of a Drilling!?
Take it from me - rather than a challenge, the versatility can make stalking much more enjoyable.
A bit like wearing Harkila kit, and stalking with friends - it all adds to the pleasure of the experience!

Glad you got the quote nailed down eventually! Good luck with the rifle - and any vegetarian excursions!

Rgds Ian

quote:

I take it then, you have no experience of the accuracy potential of a Drilling!?
Take it from me - rather than a challenge, the versatility can make stalking much more enjoyable.
A bit like wearing Harkila kit, and stalking with friends - it all adds to the pleasure of the experience!

Glad you got the quote nailed down eventually! Good luck with the rifle - and any vegetarian excursions!

Rgds Ian

I have tried one about 15 years ago whilst visiting friends in Austria. Just a few shots at a old bucket at about 80m and read a bit about their useage.

Not a weapon of choice for me. Does your have a scope mounted?

I'm a Nomad and Schoffel fan when it comes to shooting clothing. Harkila stuff is ok. I think they have over priced it some what, Runnacop(sp)looks a close alternative with a cost saving to boot.

You failed to answer the shooting of pigs with a 6mm question.

The only vegetarian excursions I make are when I go crab apple, bramble and mushroom picking.

quote:

Originally posted by Claret_Dabbler:

quote:

Originally posted by Jacobs:

As I posted earlier "I think it was Elmer Keith who said only accurate rifles were interesting."

A sentiment I fully concur with.

The quote on accurate rifles was actually Col Townsend Whelan. Elmer Keith was the dinosaur who thought a 270win was a marginal coyote rifle inadequate for deer, and a proper deer rifle was a 338win mag.

Cheers Brian.

Its not a view I'd argue with.

quote:

Posted 03 August 2008 00:29 Hide Post
quote:

I take it then, you have no experience of the accuracy potential of a Drilling!?
Take it from me - rather than a challenge, the versatility can make stalking much more enjoyable.
A bit like wearing Harkila kit, and stalking with friends - it all adds to the pleasure of the experience!

Glad you got the quote nailed down eventually! Good luck with the rifle - and any vegetarian excursions!

Rgds Ian


I have tried one about 15 years ago whilst visiting friends in Austria. Just a few shots at a old bucket at about 80m and read a bit about their useage.

Not a weapon of choice for me. Does your have a scope mounted?

I'm a Nomad and Schoffel fan when it comes to shooting clothing. Harkila stuff is ok. I think they have over priced it some what, Runnacop(sp)looks a close alternative with a cost saving to boot.

You failed to answer the shooting of pigs with a 6mm question.

The only vegetarian excursions I make are when I go crab apple, bramble and mushroom picking.

Fat people are harder to kidnap.

Hey Jacobs

From going over your posts you seem to do alot of reading about products/calibres but not much doing (no offence intended).

I had a pair of Runnacop trousers (leather clad) but they lasted about 2 weeks before I sent them back for a refund. I suppose you get what you pay for


In terms of the Drilling aspect you may have been indoctrinated by the less informed (your brief intro in Austria). I have a combi rifle shotgun that will do sub half inch with homeloads and think about it - no action variables if the lock up is true and good quality. Maybe I can convert you?

quote:

Hey Jacobs

From going over your posts you seem to do alot of reading about products/calibres but not much doing (no offence intended).

I had a pair of Runnacop trousers (leather clad) but they lasted about 2 weeks before I sent them back for a refund. I suppose you get what you pay for


In terms of the Drilling aspect you may have been indoctrinated by the less informed (your brief intro in Austria). I have a combi rifle shotgun that will do sub half inch with homeloads and think about it - no action variables if the lock up is true and good quality. Maybe I can convert you?

No offence taken Jon.

Despite what you seem to think I spend most days doing I have to its part of the job.. The reading I do in my spare time for pleasure.

Forums I use to canvass views on a particular subject, or aspect of interest. and then go off and do my own research.

I've never been one just to take someone's word for it.

Ive heard good and bad about most clothing manufacturers over the years. Thats why is stick with my 2 stated preferences. They have always produced products that have served me exceptionally well in extreme circumstances. Like I said I do my own research.

The hunter whos drilling I fired was one of vast hunting experience from all around the world. Admittedly half a dozen shoots into an old bucket is hardly a life times experience on my part. Sub 1/2 at 100m with any load is good . But whats it like at 250m? What gauge and choke do you have in the shotgun barrel

What is a Runnarcop?

Runnarköp is a brand I have heard of, Swedish and all.

/C

There is some interesting "banter" going on in this thread, makes for some entertaining reading

Just out of interest, I would be interested in what line of work you are in Jacobs and where in the UK - just out of interest? You are a relative newcomer to AR, and its a great bunch of blokes, and ladies, on here with an extensive amount of experience - no worries if you don't want to divulge what you do though!

Regards NW

quote:

Originally posted by Husqvarna M98:
What is a Runnarcop?

Runnarköp is a brand I have heard of, Swedish and all.

/C

Thats the people. I did show that I'd maybe misspelled the brand name.

quote:

You are a relative newcomer to AR, and its a great bunch of blokes, and ladies, on here with an extensive amount of experience

True. I am new to the AR forum. I've tended to steer clear of the usual UK shooting forums. To few active members with too little experience in what I'm interested in mostly.

Hence my relief in discovering AR. A large posting membership with heaps of experience in the stuff I'm interested in.

When and why did you leave Holkham is its not too personal question?

You are right in your observation that AR seems to be a great site with a lot of experienced members.

Moved away from Holkham over two years now, as a family it was the right thing to do. But had some great times there, hope it gets back to its former glory in the next few years with a new headkeeper in charge.

And for you Jacobs?

Like wise.

Nothing remains the same for very long. Change is part of natures dynamics. Some times subtle some times dramatic.

Hang on did I just lapse into the philosophical mode?

Sorry fellas, think this thread needs one of these

Reckon it would still be nice to hear where your specialities/experience lies Jacobs, as a doer?

Will PM you Jacobs

Jacobs,
6mm on pigs why not? I have friend that shot them with a 222.

regards
griff

quote:

Originally posted by griff:
Jacobs,
6mm on pigs why not? I have friend that shot them with a 222.

regards
griff

Really? He obviously likes the "up close and personal" opportunities.

As for why not a 6mm or .222.

I would have thought as na experience deer manager you would have been able to answer that one yourself.
But I have a go just for the fun.

To name but a few.

1. Potential for incorrect bullet selection Pigs are tough critters especially the big ones.

2. Lack of sufficient terminal velocity. Especially with the .222

3. Greatly reduced margin of error. Unless of course you're one of these super men who never misses.

4. Small dia bullets choice restricts the potential target selection.

5. Potential for small dia bullets to produce surface wounding, due to insufficient penetration of the target animal.

Not a definitive list by any means and obviously open for discussion, dispute.

I suppose the use of inappropriate bullet choices, and calibres will always be with us, irrespective of what the target species might be.

The real question is should those that claim to use them be encouraged or dissuaded.

Griff you're part of the inner circle within BASC where do they stand on this? Where do you stand as the organiser of their Arran stalking scheme on this?

Would you want stalkers shooting at pigs with .222 and 6mm on your leases?

Griff
Mr Jacobs (as is his wont) asks yet another contentious question..... much like almost every other post to date.

Working on the BASC stalking scheme (your info, freely posted elsewhere) - where do you stand on the subject of shooting pigs on Arran! ? !

As you are aware from practical experience - pigs die very easily from a side of head shot. Calibre is not an normally an issue when attempting to penetrate the 10mm of flesh and bone protecting the brain. Accuracy is!

Unlike deer, the head is not mobile, so the wounding issue is vastly reduced. A pig dropping immediately to shot into the appropriate 3" target area. Not that dissimilar to the standard required for the DSC!

Like any animal - hit it in the wrong place and it matters not what calibre is used. Hit it in the right place and it is surprising how little 'gun' is required.

Recommend this to the inexperienced or debate with arm chair theorists?

Not something I would suggest as being sensible!

Griff, don't bite where this individual is concerned - his style is very familiar from other stalking sites.

Provocative comments, posts with personal snippets of information picked up by diligent research, PMs trying to gain further personal data. All the trademarks of a competent troll.

Strangely, should you ask for any personal detail in return - it will never be forthcoming.

I would love to be wrong, and if Mr Jacobs would like to PM me his telephone number for a discussion - would be happy to retract all of the above.

Somehow, I don't think that will happen anytime soon! For now, I'm standing by for a reply from Jacobs - complete with the excuses for not revealing any information.

Rgds IanF

quote:

Mr Jacobs (as is his wont) asks yet another contentious question..... much like almost every other post to date.

Contentious,or questioning? Is attempting to canvass opinion/views, improve ones personal knowledge and comprehension of a given subject considered trolling by you?

quote:

Working on the BASC stalking scheme (your info, freely posted elsewhere) - where do you stand on the subject of shooting pigs on Arran!

A hypothetical question of course given that there are no pigs running about Arran that need irradication.

quote:

As you are aware from practical experience - pigs die very easily from a side of head shot. Calibre is not an normally an issue when attempting to penetrate the 10mm of flesh and bone protecting the brain. Accuracy is!

Unlike deer, the head is not mobile, so the wounding issue is vastly reduced. A pig dropping immediately to shot into the appropriate 3" target area. Not that dissimilar to the standard required for the DSC!

Ah! the man that never misses.

quote:

I would love to be wrong, and if Mr Jacobs would like to PM me his telephone number for a discussion - would be happy to retract all of the above.

I only share my contact details with those that I can explicitly trust.

quote:

Somehow, I don't think that will happen anytime soon! For now, I'm standing by for a reply from Jacobs - complete with the excuses for not revealing any information.

Your last comment demonstrates that the contents of Private Messages are discussed with other members of this forum. That is their prerogative it certainly not mine. Just call me suspicious but.....

Trust is a wonderful thing, given so readily by some and given so rarely by others, and so easily lost by the those with whom it is entrusted.

Griff

My questions were genuine and sincere. Answer them as you wish.

I have no axe to grind, no hidden agenda, no remit for disruption or intention to cause discord and disharmony.

All I seek is an open intelligent discussion on any given subject irrespective of its subject matter or its potential contentiousness. Something as intelligent adults we should all be capable of achieving. Yes? If that is not possible here I thank you for your time and consideration and shall restrict myself to just reading those posts that interest without attempting to ask those difficult question that challenge and promote debate. Or cause people to fear the wider picture.

Yours sportingly

Jacobs

Thankyou sir - your reason for not wishing to share personal detail is completely understandable- and inline with my stated expectations.

I am satisfied that my initial assessment was completely correct.

Q.E.D

Rgds Ian

Ian

Sadly I see you're set on a witch hunt and have awarded yourself the grandiose title of Witch Finder General. Hopefully you wont come to the same sticky end as the Vincent Price portrayed character.

quote:

your reason for not wishing to share personal detail is completely understandable

At least we agree on something

quote:

and inline with my stated expectations.

Well it would be wouldn't. You're the man that never misses after all. Self belief is always the start of self delusion.

quote:

I am satisfied that my initial assessment was completely correct.

As am I. The difference being I had made mine long ago and they have been repeatedly reaffirmed. Your hijacking of this thread being just one example.

There just something about a bloke who wears leather trouser and a 70's Daly Thompson moustache that gives cause for concern.

As you said some time ago you could add nothing of practical use to this thread and its original subject matter.

For the sake of the board and its membership alone I suggest we therefore leave it there. I for one have no desire to subject them to an inane petty squabble.

Jacobs (or any other name you wish to use)

What you sow - you reap.

I will apologise for hijacking your thread and will leave others to make up their own minds as to the value of your 'debates' - based on your contributions to date.

Meanwhile, I will look towards your future offerings with interest.

They can only get better!

Rgds Ian

JACOBS,
you asked for informed opinions, and relevant experiences in earlier posts on this thread.
I don't know how many boar you have shot and what experience you have, but I am going to relate to you my friends experiences and you can judge for yourself and let us know of your own experiences.
Several years ago a long standing friend of mine went to work for Louis Vitton at Les Morettes just south of Paris. 2000 acres shooting 30,0000 pheasants and 800 wildboar per annum.
He shot the majority of the big keelers with a 222 as it was usually the big ones that caused most injuries to the guns..
Now a 222 might not of been my choice but he successfully despatched literally hundreds over a period of years.
I quickly read your post and came to the conclusion you like to be argumentative, you assume that most of us are recreational shooters of some description with little knowledge of what we are doing, bullet choice, margin for error etc do you really think that we don't know what we are doing?
Here is a man that has probably killed more wildboar than most of the people on this forum put together, and if his experience is of killing them stone dead with his 222 then I would have no hesitation in accepting that,you on the other hand I have no doubt will not.

I still remember the remarks about the stalkers on the arran stalking scheme that you came out with " desperate stalkers taking desperate shots" again uninformed and without any substance, making comment about something you know nothing about.

This Forum likes informed debates and discussions not just arguments for arguments sake,so take your sinster threads elsewhere!
your blocked!

regards
griff