Hi guys

Had to follow up a severly injured fallow deer pricket last night in the dark with broken front legs follwing an accident.
The beast was in close cover, branches and nettles and was able to muster up enough strength to keep moving a few meters deeper in. The dogs had no problem locating the deer and I eventually got a head shot. This mornings task is to find bits of kit I lost like my spare knife ( cheap frosts knife), and spare dog lead.
Before last night I never thought I would need a pistol but moving round the woods with a rifle, torch and two dogs is stressful and everything is constantly tangling.
My headtorch did not throw enough light and my big lamp takes another hand to hold so I had an intersting time trying to take the final shot.
Anyway the dogs performed well and I need to revise the kit I take for night work.I know a few of you do this professionally so any tips would be great.

Regards

Mark

Sounds like a lamp mounted on top of the scope would have been useful. You can get some quite small ones that the airgunners use.

I have only had to do this once, so I have very little experience, but on that occasion the deer was injured at dawn, when I arrived with the dog, it was broad daylight.

Take a look as Surefire products. I have them mounted on a few of my scopes, they work perfect.

Hi
Try a head lamp from debens.I have one and it is great whilst working the dog on deer.A pistol is handy if you have a wounded deer in thick cover.

Hi Niel.

I have an excellent head torch with external power pack which I use for ski mountaineering etc but I forgot to bring it and with the heat of a July night and a beast with injured legs I did not wish to go home and fetch it. Semi bad planning on my behalf.
PS went back this morning and found the lead as it is thankfully a bright colour. I can truthfully say looking in the daylight I would never have found the beast even in full sunshine.

Mark,

I never really thought much about pistols for stalking until I had a wounded Roe in thick sitka forestry up in Scotland a couple of years back..

Like you I ran out of hands and it was a real nightmare trying to deal with the situation in that thick stuff...I am not sure it would be any easier if two people were doing the follow up..

Regards,

Pete

Hi Pete

There was no joy involved getting hung up in brambles with a moderated 308. Quiet it may be but useless in thick cover. Leg injured deer just dont stay still and keep moving a few metres at a time so a close head shot is out of the question.
Two people doing follow up makes the situation very dangerous as there become to many distractions and safety issues for people and dogs.If there are two people I leave the shooter waiting where the beast was first hit.
I have managed to get expanding ammunition on my FAC for the 458 cal as it has a 20" barrel and iron sights. This set up should be a lot more practical. 350gn flatpoints at 2100fps should humanly dispatch just about anything without the risk of the bullet travelling 1000's of metres on exit.

Mark

Hi DJM
A pistol is not illegal in the UK for humane dispatch as you are not deer stalking with it. The same applies to the use of say a shot gun at very close quarters.
I dont need wild boar on my FAC for the 458 if it is humane dispatch.
My cousin has a pistol for follow up on boar in Germany but a short iron sight rifle of 308 calibre upwards is the most popular.
Regards

Mark

An ssg loaded shotgun has to be the best tool for following up injured animal in cover. No scope, sling or moderator to impede your progress added to the movement of the animal and limited backstop concerns. Get within 10/15 yards and a head torch is the best hands free option.

You are quite correct Mark, a pistol is legal as long as it is on an FAC, stating that it is to be used for humane dispatch.
I agree with Trans-pond 12 bore shotgun with the right load, get within close range and head/neck shoot, make sure of safe backstop.
I have always found that a head torch needs to be angled off to the left for the righthander.
Remember that if its an RTA you must have owners permission to dispatch, whatever Police might say if they are on the scene.
Although it is unnatural as a humane deermanager if the situation is too "dodgy", its in your best interest to walk away.
Also remember that if a knife is used, make sure you are experienced, you must "kill" with ONE movement of the knife, anymore and you could end up in court answering a cruelty charge (will not matter that the animal was writhing in the road with a broken back)

Nightwalker, in this scenario would you recommend trying to sever the cervical vertebae? I know a strike behind the shoulder will kill any deer alive, but it wouldn't be instant...

Hi DJM

Take a look at this link from BASC giving guidelines on the use of pistols for humane dispatch. Ballistics has nothing to do with it as far as mercy killing is concerned.

http://www.basc.org.uk/media/rta_draft.pdf#search='humaNE%20DISPATCH%20ANIMALS'

Regards

Mark

Hi Boghossian,

The whole point of using a shotgun, 12bore with AAA or bigger is that you have a spread of pellets, which at close range (30 - 40 yards) will kill a deer if aimed at the head/neck region (animals head facing away, shot to back of head is lethal) the aim or effect of it isn't as critical as neck shooting with a rifle, where if not administered correctly will often paralise rather than kill. Also the pellets are generaly "safer" than a rifle projectile travelling at high velocity.
As MarkH points out alot of usefull info can be gleaned from the BDS/BASC link.

Richard

Hi,
Sorry if I was a bit unclear, I was referring to killing with a knife which is necessary sometimes.

A very nice flashlight/laser combo for a shotgun. I've thought about this for my campgun.

Best price on the net:

http://www.islandtactical.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=29502

On the site they have a video of a police officer dropping a shotgun with this light attached from 6', several times with no damage to the flashlight.

Bog,

Last year in RSA we came accross an impala doe that had hit the fence and broken its neck. It was paralysed but on the ground.

The Owner pulled the head tight accross his foot and with a quick cut at the top of the neck and up behind the jaw the animal was dispached quickly and cleanly. I've not seen it done before but he obviously knew what he was doing.

The problem I see with a knife is that you have a lot of margin for error, which leaves you open in the UK for al sorts of problems with the law.

Rgds,
FB

I have read but not seen that in Germany they use a large 'dagger' if a knife has to be used. The fore-leg is drawn forward and the blade is inserted deeply into the chest straight into the heart in the place usually covered by the elbow joint. This prevents the kind of blood sqirting seen if the carotid arteries of the neck are cut.
I am sure our German brethren can confirm or deny this practice.

Regards

Mark

When we hunt boar with dogs here, a knife is incerted between the ribs just abpove the heart. The down stroke will cut the major arteries & veins and death is typically under a min.

When done properly is is very fast and humane.

Mark tho German tradition is deeply rooted things do move on and coupe de grace is usually made by rifle or handgun...however - speaking of tradition - there were (some still are) roughly 3 different knives used in the past

- the dagger you mentioned is called "hirshfänger" that had its bloom time in 18. Century. It was used for stabing (as you described - mainly red deer - today it is normally a parade decoration).



- the "waidblatt" it is also called "standhauer" came out from the hirschfänger. It can be used for stabing the wounded game but it is mainly used for cuting the branches (making path in the bush when tracking wounded game or on driven hunts) or cuting up the carcas of the game.



- Jagdnicker is smaller knife usually with sharp point (can be used for stabing between the skull and first vertebra - spinal cord mainly on roe deer) that is used as a regular hunting knife.




"Waidblatt" together with "Jagdnicker" forms "waidbesteck".



...according to your topic - old folks here say that "night was mainly ment for sleeping and f%$#g"