Does anyone have any tips for December 7,2002 Klagenfurt, Austria area chamois hunt-other than to go at another time of year (I am already locked in to this date/year)? Do I need dedicated snow boots, such as Sorels? Will the chamois be lower down the mountains if there is a lot snow?

hkyhunter,
I prefer serious mountain trekking shoes, like Meindl, than Sorel shoes. This for the second question.
For the third question the answer is yes, they are usually lower when there is a lot of snow.
Two days ago I was travelling in that area, coming back from a business meeting in Hungary. No snow yet, but still one month before your arrival. all can happen there.
bye

I'm from Austria - but haven't had a chance to go for chamois so far.

Most important for mountain hunting is to try to get your hunting gear as light as possible, sight in your gun for POA at 200 yards+ (flat trajectory needed) - shots over 300 yards are quite common on chamois.

Meindl shoes is a good advice. A light telescopic hunting stick might help you on your way up the mountains and you can use it as a shooting rest if you have to shoot offhand.

Skying underware and several thin layers of pullovers (or west) to enable you to adjust to the climate (like sweating when going up the mountain - changing wet clothes to fresh dry ones before getting cold when waiting for the animals sitting on a cold stone or in snow....)

Get (take) a light "Rucksack" (Backpack).

If you are around Klagenfurt try to go to Ferlach to visit the famous gunsmithes there.

Good hunting!

hkyhunter,

I have never hunted chamois or anything else in Europe but just some thoughts on mountain hunting in general. I too have a pair of Meindel boots and they are very, very good. At the end of a long day they still feel like slippers. However, I must confess I am not a 100% happy with the Vibram soles especially so in certain slippy conditions. If I were choosing a hunting boot for these conditions again, I would like to try one with a slightly softer "bear claw" sole� a friend had a pair of Rocky's and although the uppers did not hold up much over 18 months and the overall quality was poor compared to my Meindels, we both were very impressed with the sole unit.

I am not sure what local custom dictates as far as rucksacks go, I know most professional stalkers on the Scottish hill dislike them as the distinctive "hump" can give the Rifle away if they have to approach deer by crawling. As I have said, I have never hunted chamois so I have no idea if this is a consideration or not�

If you are hunting in snowy conditions will you need snow camo? Only going off what I have seen on the Scottish hills quite a few of the professionals use lightweight ex German army snow suits�Again I have no idea if they are used where you will be hunting�. Personally, I would consider the responses from the more experienced people here and then maybe make a call to your guide/outfitter and see what they recommend�

Regards,

Pete

hkyhunter

Get a pair of good mountain boots like meindel, Danner or Haix.

Train walking and get your steam up soo you can enjoy the hunt to the max. If you want a good trophy travel light and exercise. I would prefer a walking stick and a small day pack for some lunch and extra clothes, spooting scope. I would prefer a sling to steady shooting. Be prepared.

/ JOHAN

Cabelas sells a range of Meindl boots made to Cabelas sepcifications.

I just shot my first Chamois buck in October. It was in winter dress. My earlier does were shot in August and plain brown summer dress.

I assist in Meindl, higher boots with Goretex liner ( ~ 280 € ). If lots of snow Gamaschen ( ??? who was that infamous Chicagoean gangster who carried ??? ). I believe in the Zwiebel( onion )theory for hunting dress. That doesn�t mean you have to weep, rather you should dress with several layers of ( interlocking ) clothing. You will want to remove some of this on your way up. A "Bergstock" is a must. I prefer the very thing I see with the guides: a hazelnut stock, reasonably straight, 1.8 to 2.0 m long, ~ 20 mm thick. For snow its fine to have a spike on one end. On plain ground use the wooden end, as metal on rock will make quite some noise.

.270 Win/ 130 Spitzer or .30-06/150 or 165 sighted in for 200 m will do fine. Tops is 6.5x68 with ~ 125 grs bullets. Make sure you know where on 300 m the bullet will be. IMHO "waidgerechte" distance ( max distance ) is 280 to slightly!! over 300, only if no wind and from a good rest.

DONT UDE BIPODS!! Might prevent any further invitations ...

Advice: go hunting middle August or second october week. Weather in September might be bad.

If you get a chamois in Winter dress have it prepared in Austria "mit Vorschlag" ( head and shoulders ).

If you have any more questions, mail me, I will gladly post.

Waidmannsheil! Hermann

P.S.: hope you are in good shape

Thanks to everyone for the advice and tips. I'll try to follow through and let you know how it went after I get back in December. Now, where is that Stair Master exercise machine I have in the basement?

If you write again before leave the States, I think that we can give some feedback about the snow situation, weather and temperature etc.
bye

We go <hunting> not sniping or shooting ...

Additional tip: when in Austria buy a "Wetterfleck" ( for our German friens its a "Kotze" ). This is a cape of green loden, which is used for several purposes. Of course you may use it for protection against the weather ( "weathersheet" ), but its useful for laying over the backpack for shooting, to use it as rifle rest in stand hunting or to sit upon if really cold.

Hermann

ksduckhunter
I'm not against bipods, or anything else that helps hunting, like telemeters and other gadgets. I thik only that there is a tradition in hunting and in Austria and Germany and France it is more developped than in other countries.
It is only a less techno and more traditional approach.
In Italy all these gadgets produced this results: 600meters shots, wounded game with the shooter that doesn't understand if he has hit or less because he hunts, or better he shoots beeing alone.
I have a bipod by Stoney Point and I use it without problems. And, like me, I know a lot of people that use various gadgets for hunting.
In my equipe,for hunting wild boars in the woods we are using Orange blaze, sometime camouflage and black rifles.
But in the hunting background of an Austrian hunter there are several years of experience and centuries of tradition, and they can demonstrate to you that all the gadgets are superfluous.
And I already saw this.
bye

Stefano, my apologies for lumpin all Europeans together. I do realize that there are (sometimes) dramatic differences between cultures, including hunting. I should have said Austrian hunters.

That said, the problems you mention in Italy are also knows here in the USA. What I disagree is the attitude that shooting aids (what you call gadgets) are the cause of poor sportsmanship. Bad hunters will make bad shots whether or not they have rangefinders, bipods, or whatever.

One last thing, for every Austrian hunter that claims modern "gadgets" are superflous, I'll show you someone using these gadgets: centerfire cartridges loaded with smokeless powder, Gore-Tex in their boots, polyester in their clothing, optical scopes on their rifles, etc, etc.

ksduckhunter,
no problem, this is a friendly discussion, I suppose
Seriously,I'm against the excesses in any situation. You wrote about black rile and camouflage. I had the report by a Hungarian hunter, that was responsible of the hunt of an Italian group. I know someone of this group unfortunately. Hungary has endless plains where a good bolt action with a good scope well zeroed is the right medicine. Historically, Hungarian hunters have Austrian background, of course.
The people of the group hunted dressing BDU, I don't remember the camo design, bandana, military boots, some one had military belt with suspensors, pouches and more and more. Black rifle of course, Colt, H&K, Steyr AUG, SIG Manhurin and,but I'm not sure, Beretta.
Maybe Hungarian hunters had nothing to say if these peoples have shooted well, but they wounded a lot of roe deer calf and cow. Of course this is a report about execesses that I don't like.
Sometimes I use a yellow belt made like U.S. military belt with suspenders, canteen and a grenade/magazine pouch where I put some chocholate, some sweet etc, , my fixed blade knife and the radio.
But I don't want to seem a Rambo in action.
Ohhh I was forgotting, my Black rifle was a Swedish Mauser Mod 38 made by Husqvarna cal 6.5x55SE.
bye

IMHO 300 m is max distance for humane Chamois hunting. For a clean shot we use rocks with something on it for a rifle rest. Backpacks ( of Loden sometimes, because its quiet ) or "Wetterfleck" work well.

There is no need for bipods under this circumstances. There is also no need for longer shooting, as it usually is possible to get within 225 - 300m. There must be something right in the way we Europeans hunt, because Europe is much more crowded than US, and there is still a fine game population ...

Stalking and a good shot at reasonable distance is what hunting is about.

The use of ex-military clothing in the ex-Eastern countries is partially because economy is not so well in those countries and hunters have to do with what they got. In spite of this you can bet those are real hunters who know their game! I�m sure they don�t think this of all their guests ...

I think it was Cooper who wrote:" You should not brag about how long your shot was, rather the opposite". Come to think of it, he also did not use bipods himself most of the time. Also there was an US writer who called them "UFO " or something rifles because they ( bipods ) look somewhat like antenna.

What counts is the xperience of the hunt. I�m sure this is one of the main reasons we handload our cartridges.

I use Gore Tex in my new boots, too, because there are hardly anything else available nowadys. Must ba all those hill climbers and outdoorfans. I even have considered a plastic stock 8 shiver!! ) but I think I would prefer a wooden coloured one.

Please reread what I wrote: ... might prevent further invitations ... I don�t forbid you to use bipods. I know my fellow hunters, and wanted to give you some clue. Do whatever you like ...

Waidmannsheil! Hermann

Hermann,
I'm not sure about the spelling of Weidmannsheil greeting.
I've seen it wroten in various mode, depending from the writer or the translator, I thnik.
I saw the spell that you use and that I suppose exact, but only to be sure are there some other way to write it?
Thank you very much in advance,
bye

Hermann, I fully understand your points. My initial reaction was based on the mistaken assumption that anything "military looking" was somehow frowned upon in Austria for hunting. I agree with your distances and methods, as about 90% of US hunters do.

You might be surprised to learn that semi-automatic rifles are legal to use for hunting in about 45 of the 50 states. Some states limit the magazine capacity of hunting rifles to five or six cartridges, some do not. My home state of Kansas does not place a limit on magazine capacity for hunting rifles, and I consider such regulation unnecessary. We have a one deer per permit limit, and bad hunters who are poor marksmen can wound a deer just as easily with a rifle that holds four cartridges as they could with one that holds ten or twenty. You may have a hard time understanding how we can allow someone to hunt with a rifle that holds 20 rounds, but I can tell you from living here, it simply creates ZERO problems.

This (semi-automatic Armalite AR-10 in .308 Winchester) is a legal hunting rifle in the state of Kansas:



In fact, due to the wide variety of hunting terrain in the US, what is considered appropriate or necessary in one part of the country, might be overkill or redundant in another.

I use technology as it improves my comfort in the outdoors. I like fiberglass stocks and stainless steel actions and barrels because they allow me to concentrate on the hunt and worry less about what the weather is doing to my rifle. I like Gore-Tex in my boots because wet feet can be extremely dangerous, and I've come to the conclusion that treating leather with oils is a temporary measure against water, at best. I still treat the leather on my Gore-tex boots, but only to keep it from drying out.

Finally, while Europe has a higher population density than the US, there are regions of the US that are as densely populated as Central Europe, and I'm almost certain we have a higher number of hunters PER CAPITA than any place in Europe.

To whom it may concern: Semi autos are legal for hunting in Austria, as long as the semi auto is legal to own. That means H & K SL�s and hunting series ( 630 770 940 ), Browning�s Bar and the �$%&*' Rem 7400 ...

You may only use a two round mag for hunting. I have heard of hunters charging from such a clip. Of course, as its allowed to own bigger mags ( I have at least four 25 rounders for my SS 10/22 with Choate stock and Flash reducer/muzzle brake for those wicked recoiling .22�s ;-)) the best way to carry spare ammo is in a mag. As shitty as they are KKKs 10 rounders are the best. I could write a masters degree on after market mags for the 7400 ...

BTW, do you know the 11th "Gebot" ( order )? " Du sollst Dich nicht erwischen lassen! ( ~ You should not get yourself caught / Don�t let yourself gettin caught )

I would LOVE to own a AR 10 or AUSTRIAN STG 58. I like the the AUG as I used it in the Army. But I don�t like those puny cartridges. Thats the reason I am sometimes in the big bore section. If I can�t shoot pigs with it I am not interested.

Bad news is they are forbidden.

If I am alone in our hunting area - or with some friends - I might try several things.

If I am hunting in company or away from home as guest I take my Ferlacher O/U in 16/65 and 7x57R . Thats a lie, most likely I take my Win 70 Classic CRF SuperGrade in �06 with Zeiss 6x42 ( shame on me ?? ).

As 02 Dec means most likely snow, there should be less walking. Still hunting Chamois in the Alps is something <very> special. I hope the initiator of this thread will not be disappointed and post his experiences. In August hunting and trying to walk down Chamois is a hunt as challenging as anybody might imagine. And shooting at 275 m after going straight up for them with that damned sheep jumping up and down in the scope ;-) is HUNTING!!

Stefano I think its WAidmannsheil. Or English: good huntin�! Hermann

Vegetarian: Indian word for bad hunter

[ 11-13-2002, 23:45: Message edited by: aHunter ]

That sounds like an interesting hunt.....

Hermann,
thank you for the info. I'll change my signature.
bye

hkyhunter

Say, have you found that stairmaster yet, or are you waiting for the alpines to get flatter and lower

Don't forget to train shooting at long range.

Cheers
/ JOHAN

Johan,
Funny that you ask, as I was just downstairs laboring on that stair climbing machine. I'm trying to get ready and getting all the gear together that was recommended. I'll be using a borrowed rifle over there (custom gunmaker).

hkyhunter

Sounds like it.

If you have motivation problems. I know a fellow from South Carolina that is a drill instructor in the Marines. Perhaps they will accept to let you to stay at the regiment for a few weeks getting fit for the hunt

This would be a great thing for the USA military to raise money. People pay big money going to health clubs/homes for a week or more. At Uncle Sam you would get the same plus some shouting and screaming for free

Good luck with the training

Cheers
/ JOHAN

[ 11-17-2002, 03:07: Message edited by: JOHAN ]

hkyhunter;
weather in the last week has been rainy in northern Italy, and somwhere snowed on Alps.
More news later
bye

Weather forecast: at the moment its raining. As its unusually warm for the season, old snow will be removed. There should be a drop of temperature next days, so :

~ 4 to 6 degree ( C!! ) in valleys.

~ - 4 at 2000 m.

Snowfall border around 1700m.

If you get fog, you are out of luck.

Preview is unaccurate, as weather is turning just now and K�rnten is influenced from the Adria. ( Positive side: hardly influenced by Haider from now on. Except perhaps if you hunt in Bear Valley ;-)). I will post weather later, too, but we don�t know when you will depart.

In short: rainy.

Waidmannsheil! Hermann

We're scheduled to arrive in Klagenfurt this Saturday, 7 December 02 about noon. Currently, it appears to be colder here than in Austria. Thanks for letting me know about the weather.

hkyhunter
I'm taking my notes by http://www.wunderground.com/
in Klagenfurt the weather is cold 39�F/4�C
to day preesure29.80 Pollici / 1009 hPa (Steady)
very cloudy.
Previsions for this week are not too much good for Klagenfurt, cloud and rain.
I have no reports about snow except that in Italy had snowed a lot 2500 meters.
bye

@hkyhunter

In our regions (Switzerland, Engadin, St. Moritz http://www.engadin.ch/ ) we do have at the moment 20cm snow. Above 2500m (8200 ft) we have 2.5m snow (8 ft) �!!!

Probably you need some snow shoes (looks like tennis rackets�)

� be prepared�

Good hunting and good shooting
Waidmannsheil

Collani
http://www.collani.ch/index.html

Collani,
I've spent a lot of time when I was a child in Celerina ..... I learned to ski at the Shalarigna Ski Shule ...... ohhh God am I becaming old?
I hope that is always wonderull as in my memory

bye

@Steve

Celerina is also called �Piccolo Milano�

A lot of Milanese are living in Celerina during skiing season�

Good hunting and good shooting

Collani

P.S.: Possiamo anche parlare l�Italiano�
Tanti saluti della Swizzera�

Era solo una cortesia nei confronti degli amici che non parlano italiano.
Prossimamente potremmo parlare di K31, nel Club degli Amici del Fucile (a Codogno) oramai lo usiamo tutti.
Viste le foto dell'Africa, complimenti.
bye

@steve

The carbine K-31 is one of my favorites because the cartridge 7.5x55 Schmidt-Rubin is similar to the .308. I took this rifle to my first hunt in Poland. In our shooting association we use this rifle quite a lot. At the range of 300m (328 yards) it is possible to put the shots within four inches.

Good hunting and good shooting

Collani

I begin to think that I have to manage tour in Switzerland, even if we have the 300meters range in Codogno
bye

Seems you have shifted your hunt.

New weather forecast: again my opinion from four days and four hundred km away:

Klagenfurt level: temperatures below zero, -2 midday. 80 % chance of snowfall.

200 m: definitely below zero at midday, less in morning.

If it snows Sundays and not too much on Monday, you should have a fine hunt.

Visit some "Adventmarkt"�s and try some "Gl�hwein" or "Punsch". Have fun!

Waidmannsheil! Hermann