Yesterday I shot a young female roe with my .222 rem and 50 grains soft point factory load.
I think that my story shows a lot about the limitation for such rifle/bullet combination:

The roe weighted 16 kg field dressed.
I was sitting in a high seat (Hochstand) on the edge of the forest. A young female roe jumped out of the forest 70 meters away from me and walked straight at me. At 30 meters she got nevours and was about to jump into the forest again, so I deside to shoot eventhough the shotangles was far from optimal.

I aimed for the shoulder facing me and fired. In the shot she jumped high up in the air and run into the forest. From my high seat I could see her run in the forest and saw her running straight into a tree, and just run further. Then she apeared on the egde of the forets where she came out in the first place and fell down into a ditch - stonedead.

After the hunt ended (it was a driven hunt) I got my 7 months old Labrador which I train for ”schweissarbeit”, and let him follow the deers track. She had ran about 100 meters maybe a little less. There was no problem for the dog, and he found her easely (I of course already knew where she was dead).

When I field dressed her I saw that the bullet had broke the shoulder. The heart was litteratly non exsizting and no frackments of the bullet was found anywhere – but the lungs didn’t have a single scratch . The bullet hadn’t gone thru the diaphragm .

I think the bullets behaviour show the limitation for the use of a .222 on roe deer and such sized game. You have to pick you shot carefully, but If you take a unnessecary chance you might do something that get you into trouble.

Oh I sure hope that I can get the Partitions to shot in my rifle.

Regards

Mads

I'm not an expert, but I believe you are right. 222 (Rem?) is a small cartridge and lacks of "punch" (energy, momentum, bullet diameter) for non conventional angles of shooting, even with Partition bullets. IMHO 243 Winchester could be the minimum, but my actual roe deer/chamois/muflon rifle is a 270 Winchester. Regards - Lorenzo

Mads,

And I have had 150 grn .308 pass straight through Roe without expanding too...no blood trail to follow and a beast that has run 100yards..I have never used a .222Rem but have used a .223rem quite a bit. I use standard 55grain Hornady Softpoints and never had any problems that were not down to poor bullet placement. If I were buying a roe rifle today, i would probably go with a 6.5x55mm as that seems a good all rounder.

Regards,

Pete

The .222 is maybee not the best suited cartridge for roe deer. I have shot 2 roe deers with a .222 and both were placed behind the shoulders from the side. Bullet used was Norma 62 grain, and both exited. Both were bucks and they ran 20 and 80 m.
Using .222Rem on roes you must be careful about shots and angles.
Another note: I`ve also shot some roe deers with .30-06 (150-165-180 grain bullets) and some have dropped in their tracks, while others have run almost 100 m.
You just never know. But bullet performance is a little more predictable.
Think you maybe should try some heviear bullets..? Good luck!

I think the 222 is enough gun for roe (in fact I think roe deer is the biggest game you can reasonably hunt with that caliber), but under certain circumstances only : stalk or ambush, motionless target. The shot must be placed very accurately. I wouldn't take a chance at a running roe with it...
How come do you go to a drive with a 222 . What happens if you see a pig

Sauenjager1, danish hunters are not so lucky, since they don't have boars; what a wonderful game!

Pete and Anders - my pointisn't that the roe ran of from the shot - I've seen that pleanty of times! No problem at all.

My point is only to show people far less exsperinced which think that a .224" rifle is ideal for roe and such - that you must be able to pick you shot. And more important not to shoot if the shot ain't right.

King Baboon - Yes
Saunj�ger is spot on. No chance that will have a shot for a pig on such hunts in Denmark.
On the properties that I hunted this time there is no other game than Roe deer!

Regards

Mads

Here in England 222/223 is not legal which is a crying shame. We have an almost universal acceptance of only stationary, broadside shots under 200m.

Not all factory loads are created equal, I'd be interested to know which one you used. The 50gr RWS is excellent IMHO. Perhaps the 222 has less margin for error but for a competant stalker it's light weight,light report, and light recoil make it a pleasure to use.

1894 - Sorry Norma 50 grains Factory Blyspets load.

Regards

Mads

About .222? I still have to bring my Anschutz Stutzen with me in some hunting trip.
The problem is that in the south of Hungary is very difficult to get close the game, because it is an open and flat territory and I often shooted over 200 meters.
But in 150 meters range I believe in this caliber on roe deer.

Pete,
6.5x55 is pure poison for roe deer, I had my best trophies with my 6.5x55 rifle.

bye

Another crying shame is that the .222/.223 rem is not legal anywhere in UK for Muntjac either!

Mads,

What is the heaviest bullet your .222 will stabalise and still generate give a decent velocity? I think you would notice a difference in penertration if you went up to a 62 grain bullet for instance.

I can't argue about be careful with regards what shot to take; far better to be on the conservative side as you suggest.

Sounds like your Lab is coming on well. I have a Border terrier for that job but he wants to eat the carcass when it finds it!

Regards

Pete

[ 12-16-2002, 21:01: Message edited by: Pete E ]

I used the .222 on Roe deer. It works out to 200m, if you take broadside or shots not more than 45 degrees off that. If hunting from a stand, and in one one�s Revier, a little wait should be no problem. For a trophy hunt including stalking I would take something else.

55 grainers seem to be better. I recommend Hirtenberg ammo with Nosler Ballistic tip or Solid base bullet. If Norma�s 60 grs ( 4 gramm ) stabilises, that would also be possible.

Its a bit like working with a scalpel: if you know what you do, its a delight. There are no reserves for a bad shot. For beginners I recommend the .243 with 80+ grs bullets. The heavier the less meat damage.

Regards, Hermann

I have shot my share of roe with the .222 and consider it to be up to the task.
As is always the case, bullet choice is important. 55gr Sierra GMK have always performed perfectly well, with good expansion and pass throughs 90% of the time. On the faster 5,6x50R I've found the 60gr Hornady Spire Point to be almost perfect.
Many people would consider a .270 perfectly adequate for elk (Mr. O'Connor included) or the Swede adequate for moose.
Shooting the very petite roe with a .270, 7x64, .308 class of cartridges is something like shooting elk with a .460 weatherby.
Mads, there is nothing wrong with the .222 for roe but I would rather shoot 55-60 grainers. You bullet failed, but that is not the cartridge's failure. Shoot a 30-30 flat tip 150 grain at point blank range from a full loaded 300 weatherby and it may explode on a little mouse. Would that mean you need a 404 Jefferey to shoot mice?
I don't think so.
montero

King Baboon - I travel to Poland and Africa once in a while

Pete - I just got the .222 rem this year and deside to do some shooting on roe to make my own exsperinces regarding the lighter calibers for roe (till now the samllest caliber I have used on roe was .270 win). I desided to shot the 50 grains Norma factory ammo first. Next step will be to see if the 60 grains Partitions works - but I don't think so 1-14" twist
Then I paln to see if the 55 grains Bearclaw would work. But I also plan to give the 55 grain Gameking and the 62 grains Norma Factory load a go.

Montero - once again this post is ment to be a sharing of exsperience. My only statement is that you should think twice about what you do when you hunt game with calibers on the light site. I'll still use the .222 rem for roe now and then. But when I'm throphy hunting for roe well yes I'll bring my .300 win. mag. Not that I need the power for roe. But that is my second smallest rifle at the moment. And it works fine.

Regards

Mads

P.S.

If we never try something ourself well then there was now point in sharing exsperience with each other on this forum - is there?

Mads,
I could hardly agree with you more. I only meant to share my experience and I believe that you should think twice on the bullet that you choose when you hunt game with calibers on the light side.
And it is sharing my field experience that I friendly recommend the use of Sierra's 55gr GMK.
I did not get to use the Trophy Bonded since I could not get them to group at all in my Blaser single shot but I did try the 60 gr Partition on game. Even at 3,250-3,350 fps they produced very little expansion and very small wound channels, the softer Sierras being far better and faster killers.
Feel free to use whatever combination suits you better, please continue sharing your experience with us, and please keep us updated on the subject.
Regards,
montero

OK Montero.

Sorry if you were offendet - I didn't mean so .

Merry Christmas

Mads

Mads,

My 222 did not stabilise the 60gr partition in it's 14twist.

A friend of mine uses the 55gr SGK in his 222rem sako with H322. MV 3075fps. On 45degree facing away shot he placed the bullet at the last rib, hitting liver, gut bag, lung, major vessels, rib and shoulder muscles. He found the bullet lodged under the skin by the far shoulder. It was a big mushroom and weighed 50gr! Roe buck went 3yards. In my rifle it groups .4". If you wield a scalpel you need more accuracy than with a broadsword!

My Swedish friend raves about the 62gr Norma load, I really would forget about the 60gr Partition.

If 222/223 were made legal for roe and muntjac I'd carry no other rifle from May-August.

1894 - the 60 grains Partitions are bought. Yopu know I'm the type of guy who just wont leasen - so I have to pay to learn

Yes we have been debating the bullets for the .224" here on the forum, and I will try the Sierra Game King. So many different persons talk highly about it.

I'll also try to buy some of Norma 62 grains factory. And might replace some of the 62 grains bullet with the 60 partition. (Yes I know that the barring surface is of different leght and so on - but you can't stop me trying )

Regards

Mads

Mads
Your experience correspond more or less with what my friends say who uses the 222 Rem . for roedeer.
Some svear by it and other render it useless.
It�s a little dandy, but marginal regarding bullet placement.
I have never used it my self, but hunted extecevly with a 22-250 some years ago, so I have some experence with smallbores.
I sold it after some incidents wich I rather like to forget and I will never consider such a caliber again for roedeer.
For fox and varmints yes, but nothing bigger.
My roe rifle these days is a Brno 601 in 308 Win.

Yep,

talking from my limited experience of the .222 (a few roe deers, a few beavers):

The .222 is not a suitable load for roe deer when it comes to non-perfect conditions. I would not use it when using dogs since the shooting tends to occur under less than perfect conditions sometimes. I would not count on a .222 to shoot through a roe deer in bad angles. I seriously mistrust its abilities to find its intended target after hitting twigs, leaves or grass.

BUT, when stalking or waiting for roe deer, the chambering works just great. One needs to be picky about when to take the shots.

The 62gr Norma SP stabilizes just great in my Sako, which has a 14" barrel twist. The accuracy is awesome and so is terminal performance then using the right bullet.

Every roe deer I've shot with the 62gr Norma SP, from 30 to 170 meters, had an exit wound of 15mm (somewhat more than .5"). This included both heart shots and spine shots. I have the greatest confidence for this little pecker and I don't feel undergunned with it, but when hunting with dogs I use a combination gun in 12/70 + 7x57R, or a .308 rifle, which I deem far more suitable.

Regards,
/HerrBerg

Arild,

would you care to tell us about your experience?

/HerrBerg

Before the rules on minimum caliber that could be used on reindeer where set, I shoot 4 of them, 3 where headshots and one in the heart and all of them fell in their tracks.
I used hand loads with soft point bullets but it�s a long time ago and I don�t remember the recipe for that load. I think that the 222.rem is a superb caliber and I love to shoot it, and now my youngest girl who is fourteen is starting to use that riffle.

Arild,

What load do you use in your .308 and how does it perform with regards meat damage?

Regards,

Pete

Well, the question was not for me but since I�m here...

With regards to meat damage when huntig roe deer with .308 i got to ask: "what meat damage"?

I use 180gr Norma Oryx, a bonded bullet that I also use for moose (my standard load). The bullet stays together and the factory load is able to travel within +/- 2" from the line of sight from 0 to 200 meters.

But when people hunt with fast and fragile bullets bad things can happen with any gun, any chambering. I've never understood the die-har requirement that a shot through the rib cage should drop the animal in its track. This requirement, in my opinion, leads to excessive meat damage for no use at all. What is the problem is a mortally wounded roe deer walks some 30 meters before falling? I have no problems with that.

/HerrBerg

HerrBerg.
As I said I have not hunted with the 222 Rem myself, but used the 22-250 in a Tikka Continental for some years.
Actually it was a wrong caliber and rifle for the land I hunted. Rolling hills, gullies, woods and brush. Seldom ranges over 150 m. I would be better off with a 30-30 win !

As a varmint gun it was great, and I had numerous crows and seagulls blown to kingdome come using the 55 gr. Hornady loaded to approx 3500 fps.

I used mostly the 70 gr Speer bullet loaded to around 3000 fps for roe. I had lots of meat damage, often big exit holes, but usually wery dead roes.
The main problem was its instability when tuching straw of grass or leaves, something that happened now and then. I had a wery ugly wounding, when a nice buck was gutshot after the flimsy bullet tuched a straw of grass wich I didn�t see and changed direction.
It was recovered late at night after bringing in a friends dachs, and finished off.
But the state of that beatutiull animal when we found it almost make me cry, realising that my sloppy shot and a caliber that didn�t suit the hunting conditions have caused such pain and suffer.
There and than I became an "enough gun man".

Pete E.
My 308 are used only for roe hunting as I use eighter 338 Winmag or 35 Whelen for red deer or moose.
My loading is the 165 gr Hornady SP, with 45 gr of N150. It�s wery accurate in my rifle and works great on roe.

Regarding my answer to HerrBerg about the 22-250, I sertanly know there are no brush bucking calibers. All my experience tell me the opposite.
But that small bullet was extremely touchy and I think and belive that a heavier bullet at lower speed has a little edge regarding deflection.
At least I was not comfortable any longer hunting with that gun after wounding that roebuck, and when you sort of loose the "bond of trust" in your rifle, somthing is missing.
Just my two cents of worth.

Fially... Happy Holidays and good healt and prosperity to you all.

Regards

I have used it with great results on Springbuck in AFrica, but have to say a bigger caliber is better

I�ve been using the 222 Rem for some years now, and had to admit that I like this little chap. My judge is that this cal is ok for roe but it requires relatively heavy bullets. If your rifle accept the 62 grs Norma SP, fine. If it likes the 55 grs Barnes X or the 60 grs Nosler, that�s even better. They are all fine bullets for roe in 222. Unfortunately my Sako didn�t like them to much and is about the get a new barrel in 6mm/223.

Arild
I used the very same bullet for the very same purpose, with the very same result: very little meat damage, even when a shoulder is hit, and very dead roes (and wild boars, by the way). A much better combination thant the 7.08 hornady light magnum load, which made big exit holes and rarely stopped them on the spot.
Made me a firm believer in larger and slower projectiles.
This said, totting a cute 222 is a real pleasure.
olivier

I thinh that the 222 is a grear cliber for pests. I use 243 Win for roe deer with Nosler Partition 100 or 95 grains. It is a flat shooting combination up to 25o m and is definitly better when a boar is met! By the way I have shot a number of boars with 243 (some large ones too) but you have here the same problem as with 222 and roe deer - you must place the shot caerfully but the Nosler is perfect - it always penetrates the animal although the exit is no very big - some 20 mm which means little blood trail to follow.