OK all you pigs experts

I have a spare rifle lying around and some of you will know I have habit of chopping rifles as a hobby.

What specification would you say a deciated driven pig gun should be
Caliber
Sight option
barrel length
Feeding - drop box or leaf spring magazine
Long action or short action - does it bother you ?
Muzzle brakes
(leave semi-auto rifle out since our kindergarden master in UK does not allow that)


I have a drop plate 9.3 x 62 bolt that I use virtually for nothing else but pigs.

In the past four years all pigs I have encountered are within 130'ish yards to 02 yards !

I am happy with Minute of Dinner Plate accuracy (M.O.D.)

The minimum legal barrel length in UK is 300mm

I am very tempted to chop the barrel to that length and fit a muzzle brake to reduce flip for second shots

(simle Gerry and Peter I can see your facial expressions on line)

and as my friend Lutz from Gemrnay said I will need to order a "fire eater" after that.

What do you guys think ?

You don`t need a muzzle break or short barrels! 9,3x62 is nearly ideal, but 8x57IS is in my opinion nearly the best pg-caliber!
If you have some money on the safe side, than take a double rifle in 9,3x74R or 8x57IRS - not to beat for driven boars!

A Sauer 202, Blaser R8, Heym SR21 or 30 or a Sako or a Mauser 03 or 98 - a lot of possibilities!

Hi

There is quite a bit of flip at 20 inches hence I think a brake will help with the second shot

Have you spoken to anybody shooting a 300mm 9.3 x 62 ? or 8 x 57IS.

I ran it through QL and I think I am burning 85% of powder within the barrel - the rest outside the barrel

I shot a M03 trail recently with 47cm barrel in 9.3 x 62 and I owned a 20" SOLID Delux for 03 years also in 9.3 x 62.

But 300mm is going to be fun ...

Will the forrester object ?

ben

the forester will not object to much, as long as you bring the firefighter crew with you.

12 bore slugs in a good ejector gun is about ideal for this, 24-26" barrels for fast work and a redpoint will get you into and out again of all pig trouble you can imagine.

the pigs really react well, when you hit them with a 3/4" bullet

ammo cost for practise and hunting afterwards are also real low in the 12 bore

best

peter

P.S. try asking andrew about driven bush pig in early oktober, they fight back(aka poor mans lion)

I remember I went with a friend to Germany ( I recall it was outside Erbach's estate and he was shooting a semi-auto at pigs with slugs. Between drives he got bored and shot a few pigeons with 7.5 !

I will not name him ........

I think he was the first the come back from Germany with 02 pigs and 05 pigeons with one gun !

Yes you are right Peter.

Just having fun with my surplus rifle that's all

Also a session on AR in the morning before work calms me down a lot.

I nearly miss that Peter

Driven pigs in Africa in October with a double ?

.........

quote:

Originally posted by londonhunter:
I nearly miss that Peter

Driven pigs in Africa in October with a double ?

.........

oh yes, i might even let you borrow one of the 12 bores, and a truck load of shells
as far as i now, it is driven bush pigs in the sugar cane fields around harvest time, should provide for a lot of action and fun. either which way i am going, pigs with warts and a bad hair job is almost like saturday night at the local for me

best

peter

quote:

Originally posted by Monastery-Forester:
You don`t need a muzzle break or short barrels! 9,3x62 is nearly ideal, but 8x57IS is in my opinion nearly the best pg-caliber!

As far as caliber choice, I agree. The 9.3x62 is very close to ideal for big animals. But the 8x57IS is easier to shoot, and won't jump as much, which will help you on follow up shots.

I think the 8x57IS is the caliber I would choose for running boar! Except, of course, if I had to hunt France, in which case I would bite the bullet and go with a more exotic caliber like the 8x64S (or 8x60S).

Even in a double, the 8x57RS is a great choice, and not as tough to shoot as the 9.3x74R. You can legally shot an 8x57RS in France.

I would personally not have my rifle with a brake or ported. Instead, I would go a bit heavier in barrel contour. That will help reduce muzzle flip, and it make it easier to get the gun to shoot well.

- mike

I've shot driven pigs in Africa, but with a bolt rifle - a 8x57 using a 196 grain bullet.

I think a 19 inch battue setup, with a stiff barrel would be just fine.

If you're gonna have a dedicated Piggie Basher there's only one way to go IMO ...... Why does Benjamin always know I really DO have an opinion? .....

1. Semi-Auto 9.3x62 (first choice) or 8x57IS (#2 but only w/200 gr. bullets).

2. Mauser-actioned; 9.3x62 (or 8x57IS - for the Girls & Limp-wristed).

3. 20" Stiff, Medium Heavy barrel w/open sights.

4. Mounts (EAW) w/straight 8x56 top Brand scope for night-time and a Red Dot (any variation) for Drive Hunts.

Violá ..... instant Piggie Basher.

Barring that; any rifle your see fit to use as long as it's legal.

Put a silenser on insted. Dont cut a 9,3*62 shorter than 40cm.

quote:

Originally posted by Nordic2:
Put a silenser on insted.

Now let's see, of the countries where you find, maybe, 95% of driven boar hunting, how many allow moderators.... Want to take a guess or do a "scientific" survey?

- mike

quote:

I am very tempted to chop the barrel to that length and fit a muzzle brake to reduce flip for second shots

I wouldn't! Why? Because it won't handle as well.

Its a long time so I've forgotten most of the formula but it is something like half a gun's weight should be within so many fractions of its length of its middle.

In fact for that reason the Greener GP handles as well as any Purdey or Holland!

A moderator will make it muzzle heavy and so less responsive.

I have a 8x60S for sale - with dies and cases - that has a 25" Boehler Blitz barrel and claw mounted 'scope.

I also bought it as a "heavy" rifle but am now concentrating on other things. But it does balance superbly well!

Originally posted by mho

quote:

I think the 8x57IS is the caliber I would choose for running boar! Except, of course, if I had to hunt France,

My main boar rifle is an 8x57 jrs Merkel double rifle. When I planned a hunt in France I checked it out and I belive the rimmed 8mm cartridge was not a problem only the 8x57IS is banned.

I do prefer a double for boar hunting but there is nothing wrong with a bolt rifle I have shot plenty with them as well.

Before I got that doulble I shot a lot of pigs with a 7x64 but they would run fifty or more meters before they would drop, I swiched to my .35 whelen and they dropped on the spot. I would think a 9.3 would preform much like the Whelen.

Oh no

Please please don't start a

35 whelen vs 9.2 x 62 thread

on the European forum.

We are all very fragile here with multiple medical problems.

I don't think we can cope with the "35 whelen" gang.

Thanks

quote:

I would think a 9.3 would preform much like the Whelen.

AK,

I think the 35 Whelen performs similar to a 9.3 .....


..... Sorry ..... couldn't resist.

Thank you all for your opinions.

I value them very much

From my limited experience with driven boar

I would actually prefer to be among the beaters chasing wounded boars in tall grass than being a guest shooting on the line.

The only instance when I was chasing wounded boar I recall shooting was limited to 02 - 05 yards and boy they will charge and I was also surrounded by dogs.

The paying guest can only stand and wait while we were having fun !

In those situation I would love something I can control and point very very quickly.

Anything over 20 inches is NOT suitable.

That's what prompted me to start this thread in the first place. May be I did not make myself clear.

Under those conditions the effect of 9.3 or 8mm does not ready matter that much.

But being able to control the muzzle and ability to pump follow on shots is CRUCIAL.

But like control chaos...

That's why I am considering cutting my barrel length to 300 mm

That's what I meant by a dedicated pig rifle

In France the favourite for EXACTLY what you want seems to be "something self-loading" in 300 Winchester Magnum!

In fact every so often the French shooting magazines will do a special edition. Usually with about half a dozen PLUS modern self-loading rifles in calibres from 280 Remington, 7x64 (believe it or not), 300 Winchester Magnum and some other.

But pretty much 300 Winchester Magnum rules the roost for what you require.

Unfortunately Mrs Thatcher's 1988 Firearms Act banned them for us.

The OTHER weapon of choice gaining an increasing following in France for this is a lever action rifle in a heavy calibre. Mostly, I believe, of Marlin make.

What these all seem to try to achieve is a quick follow up shot without disturbing the aim of the rifle because of having to manipulate a conventional turn bolt.

What I have not seen, but maybe worth considering, would be a Winchester 94 in 375 Winchester?

450 mm is the legal limit in France.

quote:

In France the favourite for EXACTLY what you want seems to be "something self-loading" in 300 Winchester Magnum!

IIRC reading that France used to (don't know what the current status is) almsot exclusively took the entire annual production of Remingtom autoloaders in both 7mm Remington & 300 Winchester Magnum due to their cartridge classifications.

Back in the days when I was in Brussels alot many of the Belgian hunters who hunted France always proudly proclaimed their Remington 7400 ownership in 300 or 7mm. Mag. for that reason.

Excuse Me ...... !

quote:

Originally posted by londonhunter:

I would actually prefer to be among the beaters chasing wounded boars in tall grass than being a guest shooting on the line.
...
That's why I am considering cutting my barrel length to 300 mm

That's what I meant by a dedicated pig rifle

If you are looking for a rifle to bring along as a beater (note, not all hunts allow armed beaters!), then I think you should look at how people set up their rifles when they look for wounded game (German: "Nachsuche").

In that game, short is indeed an attribute to strive for. So barrels are kept short, wear open sights, and have sling mounts allowing for the barrel to be below shoulder height when carried on the sling. Often, people use a sling, which will allow the rifle to be carried as a rucksack - i.e. a "double" sling with a sling part over each shoulder.

Because these rifles are often subject to quite a bit of abuse, and there is little requirement for super long range accuracy, and because reliability is a top priority, you often see these rifles built on old Mauser 98 systems. Blaser R93 also seems popular these days.

Here are some links with pictures:

http://www.frankonia.de/Nachsu...?Artikelnummer=75014

http://www.dlv.de/grafiken/210...mann_flyer_07_09.pdf

http://www.egunner.de/market/i...94b177ea0ec48cb54b26

Our resident "Nachsuche" expert Mouse93 will likely be able to provide additional input...

- mike

Eish Mike - although I do carry R93 nachsuche in 9,3x62 and it worked in 99,9%:



...it was on that one instance I was just lucky and none of the bolt actioned rifles would save me.

To cut it short - a boar charged from a short distance - I managed to get 1 shot in but missed - boar hit me before I could reload (you know it doesn't take much time to reload a R93) and sent me flying a couple of meters so I landed on my back and immediately jumped back with rifle (empty) still in my hand. Boar followed me so when I got back on my feet I had a muzzle barrel 5 cm from his right eye and he stopped right there - surprised, undecided - at a brief moment he looked like he would bounce me once again but (luckily) didn't. I was quite aware if I'd try to reload at that moment it would triggered a charge...he backed off eventualy.

If I'd have a double or a semi auto then I'd send him into pigs heaven for sure, but instead I was just lucky ...won't count on that again please

So all said - either a double or H&K SL7 in 308W



P.S. Boar was wounded so all above doesnt apply for a regular wild boar hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by londonhunter:
Oh no

Please please don't start a

35 whelen vs 9.2 x 62 thread

on the European forum.

We are all very fragile here with multiple medical problems.

I don't think we can cope with the "35 whelen" gang.

Thanks

And I who was about to promote 35 Whelen as the ultimate pig calibre

Anyway, here is my M77 Ugly Betty in 35 Whelen.
Loaded with 250 grn RN Woodleigh she does not take a back seat to any

And I don´t have to worry about scratching the stock or such things eighter.
(yes the stock can duplicate as a canoe paddle, nice when after beaver )

35 whelen is a great round I have no doubt
Please promote it
It's a free forum and we value you experience

I have never shot one so please tellus more

I sense we were drawing the medium bore crowd over here for another thread comparing it to 9.3x62 which has been going on for weeks !

I think I know what I should be doing to build the ultimate pig gun now

Thanks for all your input

Ben.
I posted "tongue in cheek" seeing what emotions our American brethrens mounted in the 35Whelen versus 9,3x62 issue

Never have fired the 9,3x62, I will let it rest, but I understand it is a splendid big game cartridge!

My beloved Whelen on the other hand, has ben my trusty compadre for the last 12 years, stalking moose and red deer.

It started it´s life as an Ruger M77 MKII in 270 Win.
Got a new Shilen barrel in .358 with 1-14 twist.

Here in Europe it is a dedicated handloaders calibre.
I have used different bullets, but ended up with the 250 grn RN Woodleigh.
Loaded with 57 grn N150 it clocks in at 760 mps.
Not a screaming missile, but very accurate and with devastating effect on game.
Loaded like this it is a great 200 meters round.
The longest shot I have taken was a red doe a 140 metrs mesured.
Hitting two inches high at 100 meters, it is more or less right on out to 200 on big game.

So far the longest tracking was 40 meters on one moose.
The others more or less fell where they stood.
Not much ruined meat, and so far I have not recovered a single bullet.
Just the way I like it.

Recoilwise I will compare it with the 338 Winmag, which was my "go to rifle" before I got the Whelen.
So far a very happy customer

quote:

My main boar rifle is an 8x57 jrs Merkel double rifle. When I planned a hunt in France I checked it out and I belive the rimmed 8mm cartridge was not a problem only the 8x57IS is banned.

You are correct. 8x57JS (the rimless military cartridge) is banned. 8x57JRS is allowed and modestly popular.

In fact last year I handled a nice side-by-side in that calibre in a gunshop in Amboise in the Loire Valley.

9,3x62 with Zeiss Varipoint 1,1-4 with reticle 0 is the best driven boar bolt action combo. Ammo lapua Mega.

Yes Jaegarfrank I fully agree

I was discussing what is the minimum barrel length to cut before forest fire is an issue ......

For a Bolt rifle a Blaser R 93 Tracker in 9,3x62.

But I would prefer a double rifle in 9,3x74R.

My pig wild boar rifles are :


FN-Browning CCS25 in 9,3x74R + Swaro 1,5-4x24


Blaser R93 Mag-Na-Port in 9,3x62 + Swaro 1,5-4x24 (illuminated reticle)


Scout K98 (WW II), rebarreled in 9,3x62 + Leupold EER 2x

If you are interested in a muzzle brake that does a very good job of reducing recoil and does not noticable increase muzzle blast or noise there is a brake developed by a gunsmith named George Vais who eventually sold his business to a gunsmith in Texas who now makes this very distinctive brake. I'll dig out his web-address and post it here when I find it.


www.muzzlebrakes.com

Be sure to take a look at what he calls the "Media" section - it shows a cross section of the brake and you can see the 2 type of holes drilled when making the brake --- perpendicular to the bore like all the others and parallel to the bore - this combination really slows and diffuses the gas escaping the brake. Depending on the caliber of your rifle and the diameter of your barrel he may be able to make it match the barrels countour - his work is so good that when the brake is turned onto the barrel tightly it's very difficult to see the joint.

I used one on my .375-cal Lazzeroni rifle in Africa (2550fps with 300gr Nosler) and my PH couldn't tell the difference in noise with the brake on or off.

Before I had the Vais brake installed somewhere around 20-25 shots and my accuracy suffered from the recoil. After the brake was installed there were days I fired 50+ shots without any effect. With the brake off, the POI moved 1.5" to left and 1" high --- put the brake back on and the POI was restored.

The driven pig rifle that I have used for the last eight years or so is a Sauer 202 in 9.3x62 with a 1-6x42 illuminated reticle scope and I find it ideal. I had it ported about five years ago and it just comes straight back with virtually no muzzle lift. If I was going to make any alteration I would go for the shorter heavy barrel with the larger bolt handle and an extra spare magasine (for when those big groups run by)
Some friends use doubles, but they tend to suffer with accuracy on distance shots with the second barrel and lack of rounds on big groups of pigs.