Question: Does anyone bowhunt for red stag, roe etc in the UK? How about Moose, etc in Scandinavia? If not, why? Just curious. Thanks.

I believe from what I have heard, alot of it has to do with regulations. Or more importantly against bowhunting in most of these countries.
I look foward to hearing what the "natives" have to say about it.

Bowhunting not legal in Belgium.

Bow hunting not legal in England (Home of Robin Hood!)Some folks travel to Scotland to bow hunt - but the cover is not ideal for the shorter ranges usually needed for Bow hunting. I would love to try - here in Devon the majority of my Deer are taken at ranges well under 30 metres.

Rgds Ian

Bowhunting is legal in Finland for roe, hare, beaver, fox, badger etc; smaller game and fowl.
180 Newton or more required.
Not for whitetail or larger, though.

Boha

Not allowed in Norway eighter. Bowhunting was on the Governments agenda this spring, but was turned down. The lobbying reps. from the hunters wanted a "test period" for a few seasons hunting small game inclouding roe deer, but was rejected by the dept. Most of the arguments against was based on grater risk of wounding the game, "inhuman" killing and so on..........

Regards

Thank you for your responses... Sounds like its just generally illegal.

IanF,

I am surprised that you intermate that bowhunting (for deer??) is legal in Scotland??? I thought it was illegal all across the UK?

Frankly, I have no wish to see bowhunting for deer legalised in the UK; I believe the scope for wounding and not recovering a deer is too great and would also open up further loopholes in our anti poaching laws.

Regards,

Pete

Cengel,
in Italy is not legal, it is possible in Romania, but there is a payment hunt, and of course business is business, and in one of the less rich nations in east Europe business has big importance.
My doubt is the local hunter inexperience in managing the hunt
, because they are rifle or shotgun hunters.
bye

Pete.

That is my belief, having talked to some bow hunters here in the UK.

I appreciate what you say about the potential for loopholes in the law - however, someone with the will to act beyond the law pays no attention to whatever laws are ratified!

I am firmly of the belief that a good shot with a bow, taken by someone who is prepared to wait until the ideal opportunity presents, will be every bit as lethal as a .270!

No matter what the weapon used,there is no way, unfortunately, you can ever mandate against bad luck or plain bad shooting

If a poacher wants to use a bow/crossbow, as it offers less chance of discovery,then he can/will do so now. There is very limited legislation currently preventing him purchasing equipment across the counter. A poacher would still be breaking the law, even if bowhunting was legalised!

Rgds Ian

Ian,

I would be interested to know what they are basing their interpretation of the law on although I do appriciate that Scottish law is different in the detail to English law and there are probably loop holes in both. I, have for instance, read a very good case that the .243Rem is not actually legal for deer in England and Wales...

With regards bowhunting, I used to be pretty neutral on the subject untill a couple of years ago. What happened then was that I started exchanging mails with an avid bowhunter from Texas. This guy had been at the game for years and came across as a real gentleman. However what i found surprising was that he advocated using a "pod" for bowhunting deer. In case you don't know this is a small device which delivers a very potent poison to the target. This poison is very fast acting and paralyses the beast as well if I understand/remember correctly. It also breaks down completely when the meat is cooked. Anyway when I first heard about the pod, I was aghast. But this gent explained that tests had shown that no matter how good an archer you are or how fast your bow is, deer have such good reactions they can "jump the string" on hearing the arrow being released. He did not claim it happened every time, but suggested the studies showed it happens more times than most bow hunters like to admit. The implication of this is that the chance of the deer moving at the critical second means there is a far higher chance of a none lethal hit. He went on to describe how the pod eliminated this chance of wounding and losing a beast and in his opinion was therefore more ethical. He told me that the pod was actually developed by a very famous American bowhunter of the old school for the reasons mentioned; I want to say it was fred bear, but my memory is not that good.

The other problem I see for bowhunting in the UK, is that typically even beasts which take a lethal hit tend to need extensive blood trailing and tend to travel much further than a comparable hit from a firearm. Personally I don't want a deer to go in excess of 200 yards into thick sitka spruce "as the norm "as I am sure it will increase the number of deer lost. I have read of stories on these boards of tracking bowshot deer 1/4 to 1/2 a mile and that is often with good shot placement. Down south, that could very well mean the beast ends up on someone elses property and all its associated legal problems....

I am aware that there are poor stalkers who use guns, but with our fairly liberal seasons I don't see the need for bowhunting;if someone wants to take his deer a 20 yards there is nothing stopping them doing it with a rifle...

Regards,

Pete

Archery for deer? I don't begrudge it in other countries but I wouldn't want to see it in the UK, just doesn't seem right here.

Ian are you going to tell me how your moose trip went?

Pete E,
In response to your concern about the "Pod", unless I am mistaken (an I frequently am) it is ilegale in most, if not all states these days.

Yes Fred Bear did use one but that was many years ago and the laws have changed since then. As for tracking a good shot deer a couple hundred yards, You should see the number of lost deer in out 1 week gun season (Shotgun and straight walled handguns and black powder) due to POOR shooting and or lazy hunters or just plain poor trackers. It is not uncommon to find several deer carcuses in the state forests over the next several months that are a result of the above.

And by the way the last couple of deer I took were down in inside of 40 yards and both expired on the walk/run very quickly.

The key in bowhunting as it is with any form of hunting is quality high percentage shots. No if andds or buts about it. If the shot is not there I personally don't take it. I have been to Africa twice with Nyala being the primary target and have had 7 or 8 within 35 yards but no quality shot so none taken.

As with any form of hunting alot has to do with the mind set of the hunter and what that person considers ethical.
For me, I prefer a no-shot stalk or a sit in a blind seeing animals at 35 - 75 yards to shooting the same animals with a rifle at 100 - 200 yards but this is MY preferance.

Are both methods acceptable? Yes but it is preferance and I would Love to go after some of the highlands deer with a bow but that isn't going to happen.

Rant Mode Off!

Greg,

I know the pod is pretty much illegal now, my point really was this gent and avid bowhunter himself,thought it was nessecarry in the first place; he cited some data/statistics gathered by biologists working for one of the State Wildlife agencies in Texas if i remember correctly. The whole exchange took place 3 or 4 years ago which is why my memory is so hazy. I heard the gent concerned has since passed away from the big C, but i think he published a book on the subject, again if I recall correctly.

My real concern is this issue of deer being "able to jump the string"; I have seen many bowhunters refute it, but none have cited anything approaching scientific study to back themselves up. With that in mind, and considering other conditions particular to us,I would not favour legalising bowhunting in the UK. If it works for you guys, great and it certainly extends your hunting time in the field. I like the ethos of bowhunting, ie getting close, I am just worried about it resulting in more wounded and lost deer; I guess I am erring on the side of caution thats all!

Regards, and good hunting,

Peter

Hello from Scotland~

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm !

Bow hunting .......................... I have no problem with the "ethics" of it, the few bow hunters i ve spoken to whilst abroad would appear to have excellant field craft put most stalkers to shame ! They would stalk in close ! very close ! this seemed to be part of the thrill and i can understand that completey.

At 10,15,20 yards the arrow from a modern compound bow can be put into a very small area and i doubt a deer would know what hit him ! 100% penatration though the engine room means death either way rifle or arrow ! It would also seem modern "hunting arrows" leave decent exit wounds.

Personally i wound like to have the option to hunt with a bow in this country,feel closer to my ancesters............

As for Bow hunting being Legal in Scotland ????????? HMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ! I here many guys talk about taking Roe with there long dogs......... Aint' legal happens alot in certain areas. Less likly to get caught, yes legal NO !

Regarding bow hunting in Scotland....... I very much doubt it.. down there in England you can use any bullet over 100 gn and with a ME of 1700 ft/lbs at any speed that meets the energy requirements.................... While we have the ludicous "EXTRA" requirement of a muzzle velocity in Excess of 2450 f.p.s !!!! Which makes many excellant PROVEN deer calibres legal in England whist illegal up here !!

So i doubt bow hunting is legal up here could be wrong If so let me know i will order me a bow !!

Regards Englander

[ 12-13-2002, 22:05: Message edited by: Englander ]

Pete,
I respect the err on the side of caution.
As far as jumping the string, What that implies is the animal being nervious and responding to the sound of the arrow prior to the arrow arriving on target. All alert animals unless extremely close range WILL jump the string on a bow, a totally at ease animal will not. Plain and simple. With a fast bow's arrow traveling under 400 fps and the speed of sound just under 1160 fps there is nothing we can do about it.

I missed a doe early this year that didn't know what I was. She was alert but didn't react at 20 yards till the arrow flew over her back. I have had deer bolt at the thought of me drawing the bow as well.

An accurate shot from the bow and the animal really dosn't realize he/she has been hit. Example, what did you feel the last time you cut yourself with an extremly sharp knife? Nothing until you washed it off or some juice or salt entered the cut correct. I have seen a properly placed arrow(double lung) pass through the deer and he just looked around and the resumed feeding for a couple seconds and then fall over dead.
I also grant you a poor shot is just that a poor shot.

I came to this forum out of curiosity. I am an American hunter and have been to Europe several times (My wife is from Germany) but I have never hunted there. Maybe some day I will get the chance.I have taken over 50 whitetail deer, averageing about 150 pounds each and a 900 pound bull elk with my bow. I have only lost one deer that I shot at with my bow due to a high hit that went above the lungs but below the spine. That deer survived and I took him the following season. The vast majority of the deer I have killed have died within 40 yards of where I shot them. None went farther than 120 yards.....including the elk. To contrast this, deer I have shot through the heart with my 30-06 have goe farther than those shot with a bow. I have NEVER had an animal jump the string. I will not shoot unless the animal is calm, relaxed and has no idea I am around. The Whitetail buck I took this past November never knew he was hit. After the shot he jumped....walked 10 paces, looked around, and 30 seconds later fell over dead 10 yards from my treestand. Archery is a very humane way to hunt and take big game animals. The key to success is to practice, never shoot at alert animals and wait for double lung broadside shots. I have learned more about animals and their habits over the last 10 years as an achery hunter than I would have learned in a lifetime of rifle hunting. It is truly a great experience.

[ 01-13-2003, 03:19: Message edited by: Iron Buck ]

I have just purchased a .243 Brno the manual did not say the rifle twist rate, said gun is the CZ550 model, does anyone know the twist rate, and suggest any good home loads, for Roe deer and a bit of target shooting

re bow hunting in Scotland, I can confirm that it is not legal to Bowhunt any animal or fish in the UK period!
If it was I would be booking up, spending five years shooting 3D targets with a bow to a fairly high standard I would love to have a go for the real thing

Pete, wasn't the punter Adrian Benke? The idea was that you stuck an injector of SCC on the tip of the arrow. This is actually a medical "anaesthetic", frequently used in hospitals to paralyse people. Used correctly it stops you twitching under the knife, but an overdose is a touch more dramatic. I think that's its use.

Your point about the 243 is quite correct, and as usual the home Office Guidelines get round it by saying "or metric eqivalent". The calibre of a 243 is 6mm or .2364 inches, as permitted in the regulations for Northern Ireland. Not that one would have trouble with the Police, but I wonder whether the insurers would not use it as a lever to get out of paying in the event of an accident.

As I understood it the Wildlife and Countryside Act, and its associated Scottish order expresly excludes the use of bows to kill ANY wild creature in the UK, but quite willing to be corrected.

Taking deer with long dogs. Again Scotland could be different, but theres nothing in English law (yet) to stop you long dogging, or any other kind of dogging deer, so long as you don't do it at night, and have the normal permission to be on the ground.The Staghounds do it pretty regularly.
I agree though, most of those running deer with dogs shouldn't be!

[ 01-15-2003, 13:00: Message edited by: MG-J ]

Bowhunting is legal in Itlay, though it is not legal to hunt with a crossbow.

Bowhunting, crossbowhunting,hunting with muzzle loaders and hunting with handguns is not legall here in Czech Republic. Also deer hunting with shotguns (buck shots) is not permitted etc . . .

I personally have only started to hunt with a recurve not to long ago and have only gotten a grouse so far. But while guiding hunters for bear and moose for 16 years I have seen good rifle kills, bad rifle kills, good bow kills and bad bow kills. And yes sometimes people missed too.

I have been sceptical to bowhunting for years but only due to the lack of knowledge. By now I can tell you that a 1000 pound bull moose will drop within 50 yards from a well placed arrow or a good shot with a 338 win mag. Shot placement is more important then arrow or bullet.

I think that you can bow hunt big game in Hungary and Slovakia and I think Turkey and Spain. But not sure about Spain.