Hey guys, anyone know if the French have budged at all on allowing military calibers in for hunting purposes?

If not, and you were to hunt for Roewild in France, would you use 243 or 9,3x62 or 300 Winny? I'm thinking 243, and just load it down a little so it's not so fast. Perhaps the 9,3 is the way to go, it does work very well at it's lower velocities. With open borders and the EU Weapons Registry Card you have, and you drove in, what controls are in place to ensure you in fact, just didn't take your old 30-06 or 6,5x55? Not saying that is a good thing to do, just wonder how the heck anybody would know the difference or even care . . . Thanks for any thoughts on the matter, Waidmannsheil, Dom.

Dom,

im no more there but last time i ve heard about "military" calibers the new law should come in sept 2013 ...

you can always try to bring any forbidden caliber and challenge the french law ... the EU registry card is one thing but on that matter there is no EU regulations is still under every country.

i already related that some hunters had bring those forbidden calibers without any controls but i won t take a bet if any control occurs or even if someone loose their ammos ...

Canadian ones seems easy now ...

The new gun laws will effectively eliminate the old distinctions about military calibers, but they are not in effect yet.

As for roe deer, I think the 243 would be very sufficient. It is a small, not too tough, animal. A heavy for caliber, soft, expanding bullet, should be just fine.

I can think of more pleasant vacation activities than challenging local firearm laws.

.243 is fine on roe deer. The 300Win Mag makes quite a lot of damage and you'll waste meat.

You're right about the controls you could drive anywhere with a gun in the back of your car. I've never been controlled on the road in the past 10years.

Thanks, so maybe next year law is relaxed for mil calibers. If I ever go, will just take the 243, got a good load for 95gr Partitions that will work just fine.

Dom,

When in Augsburg, I took a slew of Roe with my .243 using 100gr Partitions. Never had a problem. Last Roe, on one of our St. Martian drive hunts, was hit hard with the 9.3.

Use the .243 if you get a chance to go across the Rhine.

WH,

Don

Thanks Don, 243 it presently will have to be . . . but IF they eliminate the mil cal issue I've been on a 6,5x55 kick lately, working great with 130gr Accubonds and I would love to take it

Sorry, but I have been asleep in the back of the room What is the change in French laws that will take effect this year regarding mil calibers? Does this mean I will actually be able to use my .30-06 legally??


thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by BwanaCole:
Sorry, but I have been asleep in the back of the room What is the change in French laws that will take effect this year regarding mil calibers? Does this mean I will actually be able to use my .30-06 legally??


thanks!

BwanaCole,

if maybe yes ... so wait and dont rush !....

A new law about firearm classification was signed in March 2012, but the decrees which will designate the weapons and calibers assigned to each category have not yet been signed, to my knowledge.

Up until March 2012 firearms and other weapons were classified in a numerical system. Without reprinting the entirety of the classification system, it differentiated between firearm types and calibers, with the pursuant authorizations for acquisition and use, ie (cat. 1 military weapons and calibers requires authorization, cat. 4 handguns, pump shotguns requires authorization, cat.5 sporting use firearms requires declaration, etc.)

The new law moves to an alphabetic classification (A, B, C, etc) and the rumor is that the application decree will no longer classify hunting rifles in former military calibers in the authorization required category. As far as I know there are only proposed decrees, no signed decree as of yet. I also understand that the decree if and when it is signed will not be in force until September 2013, but that will depend on when it is signed and how long it takes the bureaucracy to move to a whole new system. There is a lot of paperwork involved in the present authorization system and the conversion will probably be a nightmare for the authorities and the end users.

http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/...LEGIARTI000025457006

At present the number of firearms a private citizen can own in the prior authorization categories of 1 and 4 is limited in number. If one has already used some of those authorizations to obtain hunting rifles in 30.06 for example, then it will have to be reclassified. I expect that all handguns, pump-action shotguns, detachable magazine firearms, etc. will remain in the prior authorization category. The positive changes MAY be the declassification of military rifle calibers in long guns configured for hunting and changing the date of manufacture or model type for historical firearms to prior to 1900, as long as they don't shoot a metallic cartridge.

If this is adopted in the decree then non-automatic fire rifles in 30.06, 8x57, 6.5 Swedish, etc. should be reclassified in the "declaration" rather than prior authorization category. I am still skeptical about .223 Remington (5.56 NATO) or .308 Winchester (7.62 NATO) being reclassified since both calibers are currently used in fully automatic military firearms and the French philosophy on the classification of caliber authorizations is that if the cartridge is used in current production fully automatic firearms in use by an Army, then any firearm chambered for them is prior authorization needed.

Thanks for the info Wink, sounds complicated.

Been thinking, dangerous at my age I know, but what about those hunters who are just traveling thru France, say to GB or Spain, and have their trusty 30-06 in the trunk and on their WBK or Euro Firearms Pass. Are they legal to transport their mil calibers thru France?

If it is legal, then the law must be written to state that military calibers are only illegal if you actually shoot or use them in France?

Don't worry, I don't plan on testing any of this out, I'm just curious.

It is not "illegal" to own a 30.06 rifle in France, but you do have to have obtained authorization prior to purchase, just as with a handgun (which is obtained from the Prefecture and there are several conditions such as being a member of a recognized gun club). And by definition you can shoot those rifles in clubs, target matches, etc. It is however illegal to hunt with Categorie 1 firearms in France.

France is tolerant about most hunting firearms in transit, as long as they are not "military" style weapons, but it is pretty much a crap shoot to believe that since one person can say he "got through" that it is the law of the land. I know of no one with a bolt action rifle in transit at a Paris airport having a problem. But I have no experience or anecdotal stories of what would happen if you were stopped in a vehicle driving through France with a military caliber without a permit. The average French policeman's knowledge of firearms, and of the laws on their ownership and use, is so limited that it would astound most of us. But you could always chance it, maybe get through, or maybe have it confiscated and perhaps be fined, or jailed, if the policeman decided he didn't like you or the situation. The latter would be a good way to get a real life feel for how it would be treated by courts and lawyers who know nothing about firearms.

I've come back to add that if you have the European Firearm Card, a sort of passport for firearms, I don't think you would have any problem with transit travel. But whoever issued that card to you should be able to answer that question with more authority than I.

quote:

Originally posted by Dom:
Been thinking, dangerous at my age I know, but what about those hunters who are just traveling thru France, say to GB or Spain, and have their trusty 30-06 in the trunk and on their WBK or Euro Firearms Pass. Are they legal to transport their mil calibers thru France?

Yes, according to the joint French-German customs office in Kehl this is completely legal.

Thanks again Wink and DUK for your comments, my curiosity has been satisfied. This is good info to know if one were to drive thru France enroute to another country and was taking a mil cal.

quote:

The average French policeman's knowledge of firearms, and of the laws on their ownership and use, is so limited that it would astound most of us.

All I can say is that the French Douanier (Customs Officer) I spoke to at Gare du Nord was VERY WELL conversant with the (legal) difference between the 8x60S cartridge cases I was taking back to UK and 8x57JS cartridge cases!

In rural areas, or those with a rural background, I believe that most French Police Nationale are far better aware of firearms and "military calibres" that you might think.

One aspect of this prohibition and total illegality for use for huntimg is seldom mentioned. It is that you will therefore NEVER find 30-06 (or 8x57JS) soft point bulleted cartridges for sale in any French gun shop.

Simply as the calibre is illegal for hunting thus they obviously don't stock "hunting ammunition" in that calibre.

quote:

If it is legal, then the law must be written to state that military calibers are only illegal if you actually shoot or use them in France?

No. The law is ACTUALLY written to prohibit (except as WINK mentioned) the possession of "any weapon capable of chambering ammunition that can be used in military weapons".

Thus de facton "improved" versions of the 30-06 are illegal as they can chamber standard 30-06 cartridges and also 275 Rigby is illegal as it can chamber (because it is in fact that calibre) 7x57.

So also 303 Epps would be illegal. But not illegal are the peculiar to France "short" 303 aka 303 Sporting and "short" 30-06.

enfieldspares,

what i find strange is today the 338 Lapua and 300 win mag are used by some military units and even still used for hunting ...

but you re right some of the police, customs or gendarmerie or warden officers have a clue but not all for sure ...

Are detachable magazine bolt action sporting rifles in non-military calibers, Sauer 202 in 9.3x62, for example, currently in the authorization or declaration category?

As I understand it, they are in the declaration only category (no prior authorisation required), as long as the magazine holds no more than 10 cartridges.

quote:

Originally posted by enfieldspares:

quote:

The average French policeman's knowledge of firearms, and of the laws on their ownership and use, is so limited that it would astound most of us.

All I can say is that the French Douanier (Customs Officer) I spoke to at Gare du Nord was VERY WELL conversant with the (legal) difference between the 8x60S cartridge cases I was taking back to UK and 8x57JS cartridge cases!

In rural areas, or those with a rural background, I believe that most French Police Nationale are far better aware of firearms and "military calibres" that you might think.

One aspect of this prohibition and total illegality for use for huntimg is seldom mentioned. It is that you will therefore NEVER find 30-06 (or 8x57JS) soft point bulleted cartridges for sale in any French gun shop.

Simply as the calibre is illegal for hunting thus they obviously don't stock "hunting ammunition" in that calibre.

quote:

If it is legal, then the law must be written to state that military calibers are only illegal if you actually shoot or use them in France?

No. The law is ACTUALLY written to prohibit (except as WINK mentioned) the possession of "any weapon capable of chambering ammunition that can be used in military weapons".

Thus de facton "improved" versions of the 30-06 are illegal as they can chamber standard 30-06 cartridges and also 275 Rigby is illegal as it can chamber (because it is in fact that calibre) 7x57.

So also 303 Epps would be illegal. But not illegal are the peculiar to France "short" 303 aka 303 Sporting and "short" 30-06.

Let me add some info to this: French gun and ammunition dealers need a specific licence to sell category 1 and 4 weapons and ammunition. Therefore, most dealers only deal in long guns in hunting allowed calibers and do not get this specific licence. Dealers that have Category 1 and 4 licences will also have handguns on their shelves as well as ammo for handguns, rifles and ammo in military calibres, etc. You will have to show your authorizations for purchase of course.

I also specified that the military cartridges are generally those that work in FULL AUTO firearms. The fact that a specific police or military unit might have sniper bolt action weapons in 338 Lapua or 300 WinMag doesn't make that cartridge equivalent to those used in military full auto weapons. The key word here is "automatic". In other words: machine guns and submachine guns. If there is a machine gun made in that caliber then it is probably a controlled caliber, and by extension ANY firearm made to chamber it.