For drive hunting wild boars I want to buy a pumpgun in 9,3x62.

I see, there are not so many different guns on the market.
Had a look on the Remington and found something very new - the Krieghoff Semprio, a new type of pumpgun.

http://www.krieghoff.de/index.php?id=5&L=1

So my question, what are the advantages/disadvantages of a pump for drivehunting.

Which rifle can you recommend.

Had you ever had the new Krieghoff in your hands (I didn't)

and which is the biggest chamber for a pump avilable


Burkhard

I don't trust Remington; here most hunters have dropped that brand. I've never had the Krieghoff in my hand, but it's certainly a much better rifle (and more expensive as well). My only rifle for driven hunt is a Browning BAR Light cal. 300WM and I see no better rifle for the purpose, but it's only a personal opinion...

I am not a fan of autoloaders for hunting, but the Merkel SR-1 looks really nice.
Merkel SR-1

The Remington 760 and its descendants are famous for marginal accuracy (typically no better than 3" at 100 yards). However, they are exceedingly popular in the Northeastern U.S. where ranges are generally short and drive hunting is popular.

If autoloaders are legal in your jurisdiction, the BAR is one of the best. While I prefer bolt actions, I have one inherited from my father-in-law (.270 Win) which has a good trigger and easily shoots under 1.5 MOA with factory loads.

I've never seen a pumpgun in 9,3x62. Probably the closest you'll get is a Remington 7600 in 35 Whelen, in either rifle or carbine configuration.

Concerning accuracy; I've owned 3 Remington pumps. a 1954 in 30-06, a 1975 in 30-06 and a 7600 in 35 Whelen. Everyone shot 1" MOA @ 100 yards with core-lokt bullet handloads.

Lots of rural folks in Pennsylvania use pump guns when after whitetailed deer and black bear. The Rem 760\7600 might be the most popular. It overtook lever-action guns when riflescopes became popular in the 50's.

Having 5 or 6 shots, a trombone action that is fast to operate and doesn't have to be taken off the shoulder to do it means a lot when gunning whitetails that run like the horses on a carousel...loping up and down.

I've been using one for decades and couldn't think of a better action style to replace it.

Burkhard,

I've never seen a Pump Action Rifle in 9.3x62; like others above have mentioned; Remington chambered their Pump Rifle for a while in .35 Whelen. The .308 Win. & .30/06 are pretty much standard fare in these rifles and I've seen a couple in .270 Winchester.

The only thing close is either the new Krieghoff you've already mentioned or the Browning Long/Short Trac semi-automatics; which they offer as a Long Trac version in 9.3x62.

I can't understand for the life of me why many German Drive Hunt organizers ask folks NOT to use Slugs at Drive Hunts anymore.

For my money the best Pump Gun in the game is the Remington 870 with a 20" rifled barrel and a Red Dot sight. Alot less expensive and just as effective for someone who knows what they're about.

Gerry

its right, slugs are mostly (always) not welcome for driven hunts.
A slug is seen as a compromise, a temporary solution, nothing more, not acurate enough.

The key-word ist "Waidgerechtigkeit", which is hardly to translate, lets say "fair hunting".

Same situation is a semi-auto, most people dont like the "harvester". And I am limited to 3 cartridges by law.

I remember a drive hunt, I had a lever action in 45-70. (tried to test it)
The landlord's welcome greeting was:" dear hunters, hallo John Wayne"

So the pump is the way, if not i return to my Mauser with short 20" barrel.

Hope I find a way to test the Krieghoff.

Burkhard

On the whole I'm not a big fan of pump guns, but they are certainly a valid and extremely reliable weapon.
I think Browning offered a nice pump version of their BAR, which I think can be had in 9,4x62 or .35Whelan but I haven't seen it around for a long time. It may have been only in Australia when they banned semi auto rifles.

Another consideration might be a Remington 870 in 12ga with a fully rifled barrel. I have one and it shoot 5 (Winchester rifled) slugs into a single ragged hole at 50 meters. Great gun, more like a rifle than a shotgun and absolutely devastating when it hits.

quote:

Originally posted by Burkhard:

So the pump is the way, if not i return to my Mauser with short 20" barrel.
Burkhard

...or get a Blaser R93 which is a pump in its own way

Burkhard,

With respect: what do you think the landlord will say if you show up with a Remington pump...?
John Wayne... I wouldn't mind and I have a bit of that reputation as I use the 1895 Winchester lever gun.

I have come across few custom-made 9,3x62 pumps, one was made by Pirkan Ase in Tampere (Finland), I seem to recollect. It was a nice-looking gun with laminated stock but apparently there was no market for it. Another was a semi-auto/pump as per the Franchi SPAS shotgun with rather military looks. Can't remember the manufacturer.

As Boddington points out, today only Remington makes pumps anymore.
The Krieghoff is of course an axception but it seems quite complex. I certainly wouldn't buy one wihtout trying (not even with Krieghoff's reputation). Given that the model is so new, you'll have a challenge finding user comments on it. I haven't even read a review in the gun press yet.
If I were you I think I'd stick with the lever gun, anyway. In driven hunt the distances tend to be short and it gives quick controlled second shot if needed. Fot it with red dot sight (e.g. Doctersight) or ghost ring open sights and certainly getting the game is not up to the gun!
For wild boar the lever guns are available in very suitable calibers, too.

I can't conceive a faster second or third shot, if needed, than a reliable and quite accurate semiauto rifle, like a Browning BAR or a Benelli Argo, for instance. Furthermore, another small advantage of a semiauto, is that, if one has several animals getting very close, (15-30 meters) and it happened to me several times, with a semiauto rifle there is no mouvement with your hands or arms and no mechanical noise is made cycling, since all is concentrated during the shot. I've noticed that, often, the shot tends to "freeze" game, but every kind of mouvement or metallic noise causes an instant run.

I've used a Remington 760 in .30-06 for years without hesitation. It is no doubt, my favorite rifle. It is extremely handy, with quick repeat shots and accurate as well. While it is not a tackdriver by modern standards, I have killed whitetails with it beyond 300 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by Schauckis:
The Krieghoff is of course an axception but it seems quite complex. I certainly wouldn't buy one wihtout trying (not even with Krieghoff's reputation). Given that the model is so new, you'll have a challenge finding user comments on it. I haven't even read a review in the gun press yet.

An extensive article on the Krieghoff "Semprio" can be found on the last issue of the french magazine "Connaissance de la Chasse".

B.Martins

I've handled the Semprio a week ago at a local hunting fair. Here's what I think of it :

Unlike regular pump actions, it works in reverse, i.e. you have to push the handguard forward to eject and pull back to reload ; very disturbing and I expect lots of problems for people used to classic pumps. The moment you press the trigger, you feel the action unlatch forward ; I was told it was to initiate reloading ?!? Very disturbing again ! Overall finish was good, I must admit. But then, the price is about level with the Blaser R93... Caveat emptor !

Oh yes, I was offered to field test the Semprio and write an article for our local hunting magazines (I'm a non professional, freelance writer). I politely declined because I feared that by the time testing and writing are completed, the Semprio would already have disappeared from the market...

I see, pumps are an interessting type of rifle.

So next round.

Some years ago the company Sommer & Ockenfuß created this type of pump.

Now this company is insolvent, there was no interesst for the rifle.

But if you want they can still made one for you.

http://www.patricks-home.de/bullpup/so.html

Could this gun be an option?

Burkhard

This is a very interesting topic, indeed!

Thanks especially to Andre Mertens for his comments. This was the impression I got from a very short description of the gun and (without having handled one!) I agree.

Further to Burkhard's "Sommer & Ockenfuss" rifle.
Seems like an even more odd concept.
The now discontinued Finnish light machine gun had a similar loading mechanism. When lying down with the butt tightly against the shoulder a one-off loading movement is OK to do but you have to really careful with your fingers so as not to get them into the mechanism. Here, too, it's unclear to me if the trigger also moves or if you can get caught with your trigger finger.

Also it's mostly the shooting hand that pushes the butt of the gun into the shoulder; the support hand only holds the gun up. Therefore a fore-aft movement with the shooting hand will make the gun quite unstable in comparison with a forestock movement. Especially the moving forward motion would pull the butt off the shoulder which obviously is not good.
On the Finnish machine gun you actually pull back the moving parts. So the pulling back of the handle on that gun is key. And that pulls the butt towards the shoulder so that it's tighlty hels and you can immediatelly open controlled fire. In this concept presented here it's the other way around.
Another question: after firing the gun, how easy is it to manipulate the grip safety (which releases the mechanism) in actual fact? I don't see it as very good to have to alter your grip of the gun.
So as you see, Burkhard, I'm rather sceptical about the "S&O" concept seen here.
(Very fascinating, though, from a gun enthusiast's point of view!)

Burkhard, allow me to say that I do not critisize your liking the pumpgun the least bit: we all have our favorites, and those guns that find no interest will be discontinued fairly quickly.
The existence of the pump action is a testimony to the usefulness of the type as such.
I have considered one myself but I know it would be a pain to re-sell as used and I much more like the lever action myself. However, if I was to find one used at reasonable price I might buy one. If it was in .30-06 then converting to 9,3x62 would be no trick at all!

If a pump is what you really want give it a try.

You can always get rid of it right!

Ideal in my world would be a doubble in for example 8x57 IRS. Merkel is nice. Now I do know that a pump and a doubble are not exactly substitutes...but well..it's still a good choice.

A long time ago I hunted red deer for a few yars with a Rem 760 pump in 30-06

Surprisingly accurate with Nosler PT in not to hot loads, but I keept on having problems with the magazines falling off, jammed cartridges and so on.
Bought new magazines ( originals), but did not get rid of the problems.

Sold it and never looked back.

I see, the idea of using a pumpgun for drive huntig is not so perfect.
The new Krieghoff istn`t the way too.

So, I decided to save money and buying a doublebarrel rifle from Krieghoff, Blaser or Heym.

9,3x74 R is the way.

But this decision will be a new topic, in some time.

Thanks for your interessing answers.

Burkhard

I wonder if Burkhard already bought his double? If not, then I have some new info on the Krieghoff. You see, it was tested in the latest issue of the Swedish "Vapentidningen".

VT's comments in brief:
- very quick re-loading, very fast to shoot multiple shots accurately
- the movement is surprisingly natural, as the hand already is on its way forward because of the recoil
- even though the movement is opposite to the usual, it's very easy to get used to
- rather good accuracy with various loads (not enough for bird shooting); a Norwegian tester was less happy with a 8x57 caliber gun claiming that the 3rd shot tended to open up the group (still acceptable accuracy)
- take-down feature a bonus
- easy to take apart (disassemble)
- versatile alternatives for sighting options
- good quality, excellent fittings throughout
- good to shoot (straight stock; test gun in .30-06)

Negative points:
- very stiff cocking system
- almost impossible to reload if you're supporting the forend of the gun (e.g. on a platform) as the supporting hand then cannot move
- heavy trigger (trigger action ok)
- if you use a scope you'll lose the sight picture when reloading, as the scope moves to far from the eye during the pump movement
- the Norwegian tester seemed a bit sceptical about the very complex construction

Maybe this helps you a bit in the decision-making.
I still hold my initial point, though, that a gun this expensive and being a completely new design should not be bought unless tried out first.