Just saw an ad for two different O/U rifles .. one in each of these calibers. What do you think of these two calibers with respect to hunting boar --- stalking....high seat...driven?

What about red deer?

What does High Seat mean? Sittin on an elephant?

It can't be easy to open a OU like that?

As to the cartridges well the bullets are more important.

Double rifles should be SXS's. That must be written in stone somewhere.

99....a "high seat" can be a lot of things but mostly the ones I've seen are like the elevated stands you see in Texas although they can also be something like a tree house.

Bill, the 7x65R is one of the BIG calibers in (Central) Europe - one of the "do it all, go everywhere" calibers. The 7x57R is a step down the ladder from the 7x65R, and is not seen that often these days - most people preferring the 7x65R due to its versatility.

With respect to suitability for game of various kinds: the 7x65R is used on practically any game in (Central) Europe - including roe, reds, boars etc etc. The fact that this is a double rifle makes it better suited to driven hunts than a single shot or combined gun. Is the caliber ideal for driven boar: no, the 9.3 or 8mm calibers would take that price, but it will work. Is it ideal for red: depends on what type of reds. It is not ideal for big stags in the rut, but will do the job. I guess that is the payoff when you choose versatility over special purpose.

- mike

P.S. Savage, O/U doubles are a lot more common in Europe than SxS. Reason: it is easier to build an O/U than a SxS that won't shoot loose over time. You can often use the O/U receiver with a O/U shot/rifle combination barrel - very popular. The SxS primarily offers faster reloading, which is a definite advantage when you hunt dangerous game. In Europe, the main application of a double is for driven hunts, and dangerous game is not an issue.

I beg to disagree. The 7x65R (I own the rimless twin 7x64) is definitely on the light side for drive hunting (I use the 9,3x74R instead) and too light (for my taste) for wild boar and red stag. I use the .300 WM when stalking these and reserve my 7x64 for Roe, which it kills like lightning with proper placement.

DBBill
Look closely at what mho and Andre Mertens have said, and I agree with them 100%. The BEST calibre for a Double Rifle [under 40 cal] is the 9,3x74R.You can debate O/U vs SxS [I like the SxS by a WIDE margin.
The 9,3x74R is not too much for small deer [or the shooter ], yet big enough for all game under buff. [It will work for buff, etc in a pinch, but that is what your 40 and up double is for.]
I am very happy with my scoped 9,3x74R Chapuis SxS double. It is my favorite hunting rifle under 40 cal.

DBBill,

there isn't too much difference between the effect of the 7x57R and the 7x65R on European game. Both use the same bullets, but the 7x65R gives a little higher velocity and makes hitting beyond 150 yards easier.

Big difference between stalking / high seat and driven game. Stalking / high seat will allow shots at game standing broad side (much preferred as game meat can be sold in Europe and people want bullets placed for minimum meat damage. Driven game is often shot on the run. Bullet placement is problematic. Ramges are short so big, slower moving bullets are generally preferred as added insurance for poorly placed bullets.

I've shot quite a few red deer (stag) up to 160 kilograms (hang weight), boar up to 90 kilo, and roe deer around 16 kilo with 7x57R and 7x65R rifles - usually using RWS 177 gr. TIG bullets. Shots were all less than 150 yards, usually less than 100 - mostly shoulder or just behind the shoulder. Shoulder shots seem to drop animals this size pretty quickly. With a shot behind the shoulder, I seldom had red deer drop in their tracks. Roe deer are bowled over either way. Pigs under about 50 kilo usually drop to a shoulder shot, but may go some distance with a bullet behind the shoulder.

The 7mm often doesn't give complete penetration on large red deer and pigs. Tracking can be a problem especially pigs in winter when they are very fat (fat tends to act like a self sealing fuel tank).

I have also shot these animals with a 9,3x62 and a 9,3x74 - both using RWS 286 gr. soft nose bullets w/ a lot of lead exposed. This works much better for shooting driven game and also for general purpose shooting out to 150 yards or so. For Roe deer, the RWS TUG bullet gives less meat damage. It is a hard bullet and also works well on large African antilope.

Regards,

DBBill,

You've got some great respomses from mho, NE 450 NO2, M Heneselman & André (O.K. he likes a little bit more whallop!) I'll try to re-confirm and add some of my own experience! Their astute commentary on Drive versus Stand hunting and the current vogue calibers for Continetal game here in Europe is spot-on and mirrors my experience exactly.

I wouldn't feel ashamed or put-off by showing up anywhere in Europe (or anywhere else around the globe for that matter) with a classy Double Rifle in either 7x57R or 7x65R but if had to make a decision - would opt for the 7x65R as more of a ".30/06 class" cartridge, since you could potentially load even heavier than "normal" 7mm bullets in it and get Driven Hunt performance. The 9.3x74R would be the premium Double Rifle in my book, especially for Driven Hunts but the price of the rifle will also be accordingly higher for it's desireability IMHO.

Having said that I own a "stubby" 7x57R in the form of a K-95 Stutzen and take my game opportunities as I get them - without hestitation. My standard load for the 7x57R is the 140 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip which is pretty much the right weight, performance and overall balance for the type of game I encounter when stalking with it; Roe, Fallow Deer, Stags & the occaisional Wild Boar. I also load the 177 gr. TIGs and would choose them when the potential for "larger" game exclusively presents itself. The 7x57R WILL shoot stem to stern through a 90 Kg Wild Boar with 177 gr. TIGs, cause I've done it. They run a bit and don't drop in their socks like when they get thumped with a 9.3x62 but are dead nevertheless. The 7x57R & 7x65R like their blood relative the 7x57 is known for it's great penetration, those long bullets just lope along and shoot through stuff, not catastrophic but kills stuff.

Stalking Wild Boar isn't the optimum hunting method (I've done it in the snow - twice) but those were oportunities more than a predetermined hunting efort so I wouldn't weigh the purchase of either of those two particular rifles heavily on a stalking premise for Wild Boar. Single Deer & Stags lend themselves better to stalking since a sounder of Wild Boar (or a herd of Deer for that matter) is how they are mostly encountered.

Bill, the 7x57R and 7x65R would be fine for hunting boar and stag by stalking or from the elevated stand. I have quite some experience with the 7x64, the rimless twin sister of the 7x65R.

For hunting driven boar you´re definitely on the light side. I know it can be done, as i did several times with 160grs Nosler bullet. But even with proper bullet placement you might experience a longer tracking job needed than you would like to see. For that type of hunting you might be better served with a larger caliber (e.g. 8x57IRs, 9,3x74R).

The same is true when you go trophy hunting for larger, heavier boars or stags. In those cases i prefer to take my .338.

Roman

Its simple: 7x65R = .30-06 with rim, necked down to .284 bullets.

Honestly: the .30-06, 7x64 Brenneke, 7x65R are ballistically twins ( identical ).

You want bigger than 06? Get .30 Blaser ( .300 H & H ), 8x68S ( ~~ .338 ), 9.3x62, 9.3x74R, ...

An interesting chambering would be 6.5x65 ( R ) RWS, equivalent to 6.5-06.

H