Hi people
The treestand is ready, my shoting test has been passend to day. Got it on the first try. Bought a binocular the other day. 8x42. cheap!

Still haven't taken any pictures of the tree stand, my father went of to romania for a week and took the digital camera with him.

Gonna take a few shots from the stand as soon as I get the time.

I just need a full box of lapua mega 185 grain then I'll be set.

Season opens at the .10 of august.

Johan

Sounds like a cunning plan to me!!

Good luck on the 10th.

I myself will be out a couple of weeks after you as a freind has kindly invited me to take a nice roebuck from his patch in exchange for some fallow stalking at mine.

Regards,
Kiri

I shot this one last night. Due to overpopulation, our bucks don't get better as this, so I finally shot him after passing him up several times during the last weeks.

Andre,

Unfortunately I cannot see the picture (my PC very rarely shows photos on AR) but congratulations.

I seem to remember your hunting club members have a limited bag each season and that you are very selective? I wondered if there was a case for increasing the quota to get rid of the overpopulation?

True, we have to follow a legal shooting plan imposed by the authorities (we get fined if we shoot more OR less of the imposed number of males, females, adult, youngs). The numbers are based upon the official inventory and our own... lies. Our group consists of 5 hunters and this year we submitted a tally of 15 heads, the "Eaux & Forêts" (= fish and game dept.) made it 20 as they insist upon reducing the population, considering the amount of crop damage.

Nice buck André; I will try to catch my one next monday.

André,

Nice buck!

Sounds like you are in a similar situation as here in Germany, shoot, shoot, shoot!

That's true, I believe there's a general trend among the forestry administration to reduce the game population (trees are costly !), hence the pressure they put on hunters. On our side, we play an hide and seek game (we like to see lots of game, don't we ?) and we put tags on road killed animals. Normally, we present the carcass wrapped in a plastic bag, with only the head sticking out, to the game ranger. Being lazy, he's satisfied to recognize a buck, doe or fawn, doesn't look for a bullet hole, puts his stamp on the papers and there goes another one that didn't die for nothing...

Hi all, this is the buck that I shot yesterday. Distance was 170 m. rifle Tikka 695 (wonderful), cal. 300 WM, reloaded ammos with Sierra 165 g. HPBT

[IMG][url="http://www.hunt101.com/?p=312331&c=535&z=1"] [/url][/IMG]

quote:

Originally posted by Andre Mertens:
That's true, I believe there's a general trend among the forestry administration to reduce the game population (trees are costly !), hence the pressure they put on hunters. On our side, we play an hide and seek game (we like to see lots of game, don't we ?) and we put tags on road killed animals. Normally, we present the carcass wrapped in a plastic bag, with only the head sticking out, to the game ranger. Being lazy, he's satisfied to recognize a buck, doe or fawn, doesn't look for a bullet hole, puts his stamp on the papers and there goes another one that didn't die for nothing...

May I ask for interests sake what size hunting area the cull applies to and what the estimate of total population is. Also are the 15/20 just bucks or bucks and does?

Each "game management council" (= enclosure of several private territories within natural borders) has contracted to implement a common game mgt. policy. The general shooting plan is based on an inventory of the total population and tags are then redistributed within the council, according to local conditions (habitat, population concentrations, etc.). My hunting lease has the highest concentration in Roedeer (woodland) and got tags for 6 does, 9 fawns and 5 bucks. Considering the high number of adults, the administration obviously aims at reducing the population (true we have a wood of 100 Ha hosting 60 Roes - we report 35, of course...).

Andre,

Thankyou, very informative. I hope this comes accross as interest and doesn't sound critical.

I'm interested in why you don't want to reduce the population and shoot more?

Because, part of my pleasure is seeing lots of deer. During an average "sitting" evening (2-3 h), I'll watch 10-20 animals living their life, undisturbed. After a few weeks spent on the different highseats, I know all bucks and their habits. Having studied them, I decide which one to shoot, where and when. Once the decision is made, it may take 1 or 2 sessions depending on weather or other surprise disturbance before my tag is filled. Last week when I shot my last buck, I climbed my ladder at 19:00. 4 deer were already in the beets and several more followed shortly thereafter. I then watched a fight on my right before "my" buck came out 200 m in front of me. I was preparing to shoot when he came rushing in my direction to start a fight with another buck I didn't see coming out from under my seat. They fought at 80 m in front of me and when they stopped to catch some air, I fired. My buck crumpled and his opponent didn't realize at once, for, head down, he continued pawing the earth for some more seconds before he got the message and dashed back to cover. I called the warden on my portable to warn him I'll come along later to show him the beast and get his stamp on the papers. I then went down to field dress my buck. It was 19:45, I had seen a total of 9 deer, watched 2 fights and shot a buck.

Andre

Thankyou for answering. Do the landowners have any input into the culling levels?

Do you think your land is at it's holding capacity and that you might be 'losing' bucks and does to neighbouring and potentialy higher culling syndicates? In the UK there is a theory that big bucks will not tolerate high levels of does or young bucks..... I have no way of proving it but I do note that having to cull quite hard on one estate I keep on picking up really nice old 6 pointers that I have not seen before and not 'grown on' (allthough I try to do that as well). I think they come from neighbouring unshot estates.

I'm willing to agree (unofficially...) that we are overpopulated. The generally accepted std. among foresters is a Roe population of 25 capita per 100 Ha. Your assumption about migration is absolutely correct, if it wasn't for the fact that we englobe most of the local woodland, so that everybody queues up in our place. The downside of our high numbers is that bucks go down in quality, as compared to years ago when we were building up the population. The animals are fat and healthy as food is plentiful, so zoonoses are not a problem. Stress and competition are the culprits however. Dominant bucks live only a few hundred meters from each other and all are scarred from their many fights. A puzzling fact I note is that, year in, year out, I shoot about the same size buck in the same place. It reminds me of my fly casting days, as the biggest trouts are always found in the same places.

Andre

Interesting and informative conversation - thanks.

quote:

The generally accepted std. among foresters is a Roe population of 25 capita per 100 Ha.

At what time of year do you calculate the population? Here in Sweden we usually calculated it in late spring (when the population is at it's lowest for the year).

As early spring-population, 25 roes per 100 hektar would be considered an very high population in Sweden. Few areas have enough food to sustain such a population. There are that many on certain well managed larges estates in southern part of Sweden. Here in western Sweden, half that population would be still seen as good.

How is the official inventory done? Here in Sweden, counting droppings in selected smaller sqares all over the area are seen as the best method. The researchers I have talked to seems to agree that counting observations as a rule gives a large underestimations of the roe population - even if done by very experienced foresters.

How much land does a "game management council" manage?

Ah, tuseday is opening day here...

Regards,
Martin

In the south east of England it is possible in a good area of mixed woodland and arable fields for a stalker to sustainably shoot 15 roe per 100ha that being half the number of deer seen ie there are more unseen.

I have one such area which has been stable over the past 3 years at that culling level. Just over the Motorway is the exact same sort of land where the population is probably a quarter.... I still can't figure out why the difference!

quote:

I have one such area which has been stable over the past 3 years at that culling level. Just over the Motorway is the exact same sort of land where the population is probably a quarter.... I still can't figure out why the difference!

Could availability of water be an issue?

As to the relation between observations and actual numbers, research from Denmark show that the actual number can be more than three times higher than what several experienced foresters and gamekeepers agree on as an estimage after observing for long time in those woods...

Regards,
Martin

Sorry for my late reply, I'm just back from 2 weeks holidays. Inventory is based on observation (= underestimation) and corrected by using a mathematical formula (not mine but used by authorities...) taking into account said underestimation + quality of habitat (food availability, cover, etc.).

Sorry Martin, I omitted an important point in you Q. A game management council must cover 1000 hectares at least. Most vary between 2500-5000 ha and some may go 10.000. However, experience shows that once they grow that big, they tend to become unmanageable by voluntary partners.

Thank you André!

Regards,
Martin

Roe of 2004



Roe of 2005 big more more more big