As sound moderators have become part of our every day shooting life( in the UK)
I thought you might be interested in a fully moderated rifle that a friend of mine had built.



With the need to have as light as possible, but still functional rifle, the options are limited.

We have an abundance of ‘off the shelf’ moderators to meet our needs. But most of these add unwanted unbalance to the finished article.



The over the barrel design, all be it good, is ugly and adds bulk.
The end mounted type add length , thus making them less point able.

The solution would be to have a fully moderated rifle with a full time mounted unit that fits the job.

Entry the following project.






The donour rifle is a light weight Remington model 7. This is sold in the States as a junior , or ladies rifle, as the barrel is very slim and light. It still has all of the Remington traits, good and bad, but lend sitself to the modifications that are required.






The rifle was built as a project. Several very accomplished gunsmiths lent their trades to this.

The rifle was originally bought as a light sporter. With the help of Steve Bowers and the team at Riflecraft, this amazing rifle was built.

Firstly the sound moderator had to be selected. This was courtesy of PES . A full length version that fits over the barrel. The inner gas seal is against the outer wall of the barrel itself, produced by a tight fitting ‘O’ ring at the rear end .






The stock is an after market Mcmillam lightweight. That had to be opened out to get the stock to moderator fit.





The really clever part is the boss that had to be fitted to the muzzle end . This has the dual purpose of both stiffens up the barrel , and supplying a mount for the thread that otherwise could not be threaded to such a slim barrel.





The rifle shoot superbly. Its balance is just the same as an ordinary sporter , as the weight of the mod. is further down the barrel, retaining the centre balance.

I would love to own one of these myself.

Just have to get the pennies together

That's a work of genius! I suspect it might be the shape of things to come in this country.

Just out of interest, what kind of pennies ballpark are we talking for one of these?

That is a nice job puntgunner

One thing to watch out for is that condensation will form inside the mod and it will not do the barrel any favours. I'm sure you are aware of this already but I saw a Blaser barrel recently that had a reflex mod fitted and it was in an awful state and Blaser coat their barrels to weather proof them.

Nice piece of kit.

Is the sound attenuation as effective as with a Jet-Z?

I would also be curious as to the price of the complete package...

quote:

Moderators: Pete E
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Bog,

The package came in at,(I believe), £1,400 pounds . The rifle when bought was new. All the other componenets were new when fitted.

The barrel had to be shortened to keep the rifle trim. In a .243, the barrel needs to be no more than 18" to maintain all of the powder combustion needed.

The moderator is removed after every trip. This is adviseable for all moderators, as condensation will build up on a cold day if the rifle has been shot or not.

Please remember that this is a tool, not a work of art. The concept is,or was new.

Julian Savory and Mr Bowers have now made similar models of this rifle using a Thompson Encore, in several calibres. all are fine pieces of work.

Iv'e been a range official when all of the popular Mod's have been used.

The Jet'z is a fine Mod. Very compact. But I can't say , without a proper test, if it is any quieter than the rest.

I can bring a sound meter to the Boldock bash if we have enough people with mode to carry out an experiment test.

Just be aware puntgunner that if you are looking to record the peak SPL of a rifle you need a very fast sound meter. Most are too slow and so could give widely varying results even for the same rifle. Of course if you have such a device then the results would certainly be interesting.

Interesting. I have the same moderator which is a 32mm custom from PES which is available in stainless to order for £300 (ouch). They are excellent - I applaud the choice.

My own rifle is 19.5" which gives 7" of expansion chamber and (being the old style PES) 6" of baffle out front. The new PES custom has 4" of baffle which would allow a 21.5" barrel for the same overall length and hence 9" of expansion chamber. You may well find that a 21.5" barrel and the moderator back to the fore end is quieter than your friends as barrel length is a serious contributory factor to noise reduction.

Before you go the full length route I would check the additional noise reduction. My own is very efficient (especially when you understand that the 32mm PES is really designed for the 223 class rounds) and as it is no more than the diameter of the fore end really does feel like part of the rifle. The added bonus of not going all the way back is that you can have a stock with a nice slim fore end. My own is Mcmillan mountain stock

Why the need for the boss? I've seen Model 7s threaded for 1/2UNF in 7mm08.

I have found the absolute key to getting the PES to be efficient is a very good thread and close tolerance on the sound baffle. Make sure your smith dials the lathe in to the bore and not the exterior of the barrel.

18',
Why the need for the boss? I've seen Model 7s threaded for 1/2UNF in 7mm08.


You'll have to talk to the people that made the rifle to get the answer. I just thought you might be interested in a nice piece of work!

Didn't mean to sound critical - I am interested which is why the questions.

Not true until you get past 7mm

Even .30 cal is fine.

I have a .300 WSM on 1/2unf no problems whatsoever.

The sportsman also has their .30 cals 1/2 unf (I was told by one of their sales staff.

DJM

If that is true, it has had no effect whatsoever on my rifles in any way.

If anything, the accuracy has improved. On one of the rifles this was dramatic but it was re-crowned at the time it was cut and it was this which I am sure improved the accuracy.

So in practical terms it has made no difference. I didn't check to see if any flaring had occurred. I am not a gun smith so can only gpo from wha others tell me but I have been assured that it has been done many times without negetive effect.

DJM - what's your source for this information?

The shoulder is parallel no? What's to make it locate in the same place each time? How can you run tight baffle tolerances if the thread isn't within tolerance? How do you cut a thread slack?

DJM

Very interesting but I take it the flaring issue you refer to in your previous post is not born from personal experience?

I think 1894 but certainly myself was interested to hear the source of the information regarding flare on anything bigger than 6mm with a 1/2" unf thread?

As I stated in my previous post I am told by a professional gunsmith that 1/2" unf has been used on countless barrels upto 30 cal with no ill effect whatsoever.

Very interesting information. I don't mean to sound miserable but never the less that information reminds me why I don't like the Reflex moderator.

In it's time it was ground breaking but it's mild steel construction, massively over diameter inner tube, overly great baffle clearance, and thin outer skin are things that are no longer acceptable IMHO.

Price is the standard the T8 wins more market share than the total of all the competition x10.
If you want to sell a moderator most folk aren't interested unless it is cheaper than the over priced T8.
I have 1/2" thread on .243 and .308. There isn't much metal on 308 and if it shot a lot of carts. annually I can well believe flaring may occur. But it shoots less than 100/annum and if it flares I'll shorten it again and still have 1/2" thread cos thats what my T8 is and one mod. switches on 3 rifles.
Rightly or wrongly when someone tries too chat me up over buying a new moderator they lose interest and fall at the first sales fence...price!

DJM

That's fair enough and I don't know Steve Bowers but I do know he has an excellent reputation and his opinion is very valid.

My .308 is 13mm but my .300 WSM s 1/2" and it has had no negetive effect whatsoever. I will keep on trucking and see what happens but I would think if anything out of true was going to happen it would have happened by now.

Anyway I will wait and see what happens. It is all experience I suppose and yes the profile on my Sako 85 doesn't lend itself to any more than 13mm so there is not an option other than to adopt the bossed mod approach.

I have a reflex T8 and use it on my .222 and my 6.5x55. I have had it for 3 years and last week when using it on my 6.5 the outer case split open! I could'nt beleve how thin the casing was.
at the time I bought it the reflex was the only moderator that any of the dealers here brought in. I have now bought a new Wildcat, ans it is by far a much better moderator, and only £10 more than the T8.I was told by a good source that Jackson's are buying T8s for £30!

Steve Bowers is a great smith - I believe what he says. However he agreed to thread my 7-08 to half UNF (as my PES was already that thread) feeling that the chance of muzzle flaring was very remote. He did however feel that 30cal was a step to far.

I don't think that the threading instructions for reflex moderators should be applied to other moderators.

This is an interesting thread. I reckon it will be impossible to buy an unthreaded rifle in 5 years time.

DJM

Just re-read the thread and saw I hadn't responded to your qurestions.

The rifles are all standard 75's and one 85.

I have found out subsequently that my 75's (one is a .308 the other a .22-250) that they are M14x1 so I would think they are bomb proof according to your criteria to flare or not.

The 85 is actually 1/2 unf and is also a .30 cal. It is interesting that honestly with the naked eye I can not tell the differnce at all in the thickness of the side walls of the barrel metal barrel. I do realise that there is a difference obviously but it is difficult to get my head around how this slight difference in thickness in steel can mean such a difference in flare or non flare if that makes sense. One would think that if 1/2 is not enough then M14 would not be enough either. I am not disputing what you are saying it's just that a doubt it is such a black and white matter but if I find any negetive effects of 1/2 unf atleast I will know what to attribute it to.

Thanks