'Afternoon chaps,

I am thinking of getting another rifle in the stainless/synthetic format for general nasty weather duties.

A Tikka M695 in the above calibre and format has come up in good condition and I need to make a decision fairly soon to be fair to they RFD.


It will be for general UK stalking, i tend not to go out after Deer or fox per se, rather I enjoy just leaving the choice of quarry to chance.

It will take Sika at the upper end and fox at the lower.

My only hesitancy is that I started off thinking along the 243 line in terms of calibre, is the 25.06 closer to the 243 or so closer to the 30.06 in terms of bang, kick and killing power.

What thoughts chaps?

As always your comments are much appreciated.

Regards,

Amir

amir,

i was under the impression the 25.06 is a 30.06 case necked down to 25 cal in simple terms.

have you already got a 30.06? the 25 wont do anything your 30 will not.
i think the bullet choices for the 25 are along the same lines as the 243 in weight from about 70 to 120 gn i think, it just has big boots behind the pill. the 243 i think ranges from 55 to 107 gn.

the 30 however ranges from 110 up to at least 220gn.

ive never had one but have heard the 25.06 does the job properly and is very effective, but again no more than the 30.06.in fact put in the right place will not all rifles/calibres do that? i would hazard a guess the bang, kick would be up with the 30.

are you intending getting rid of the 30.06?

if you were getting rid and wanted to get maybe one rifle to do fox and deer have you considered the 257 Roberts? even maybe get it improved while your at it.

i have a 30.06 and its great for all deer and foxes i dabble in bullets either 125gn or 168gn and that's about it now, i did a stint using 110gn through it which i enjoyed for a while.

hi Alex,

Thank you for your thoughts.

No I'm not getting rid of the 30.06, merely wanting to add a "beater" grade rifle to the armoury. I want something suitable for all the larger game in the Uk, from fox to Sika/Fallow, in a stainless/synthetic format.

The idea came about because of the need to get a foxing rifle, with perhaps a little less emotional attachment to the lovely walnut stock which I have just spent the best part of 3 months oiling!

I also witnessed a man drop a nice rifle once and the damage done to the really nice stock was heartbreaking....

I think I have convinced myself that I need a second rifle so the question is 25.06 a reasonable "second" calibre for European use?

Whether or not I actually need a second rifle is, well, frankly debatable in the face of any serious scrutiny

Regards,

Amir

Those that have them, that I speak to, "love" them. At the same time none of them, at the same time, have a 270 Winchester in their cabinet.

They tend to be 243 + 25-06 + 308 (or 30-06) users.

That, in itself, speaks volumes. The 270 Winchester will do ALL the 25-06 will do better, cheaper, with a wider range of factory bullets and reloader's bullets.

If you've a "slew" of cheap .257 bullets go for it. If not? I can't see a role for it at either end (except non-military spec) that the Swedish Mauser of the 270 doesn't do better in UK or Europe.

Plus...cheap 270s? Guntrader is full of them! Spend the money you've saved on a decent 'scope.

I have a 243, 257 Roberts, and a 25'06. I live in the SE USA so I don't know what your factory ammo situation is but in the US a Roberts is a handloading gun. On small deer around 100# a 243 will do fine if you place your shots in the heart or lungs. I use 120 gr bullets for both the 257 & 25'06- the 257 at 2,800fpt & the '06 at 3,000fps. 1 of my 257's shoots 85gr amaxes & 120 partations to almost the same place but my only 25'06 does not like under 120 gr bullets. If you shoot a deer with a 25'06 using a cup & core bullet under 100 yds you will have a lot of meat damage. If you have any other questions please let me know I have killed a reasonable amount of game with both the 257 & 25'06.

If I owned a 30-06 and wanted a "general" everyday do it all calibre I would just go with a 243.

Handles everything, and also has the added advantage of getting it on ticket now for crows etc.

You might not do that at the moment Amir but in the future who knows??

Thats what I would do anyway??

the bigger issue is what are you going to use the rifle for
yes the .243 will do everthing in the uk but personaly i like a bit bigger for fallow bucks ,sika stags and red stags
the .243 will not be big enough for a lot of continetal or african game or Boar
yes it will take them but realy you hav no comfort zone
the 25-06 has the umphhh but not the respect another wildcat in the same bracket as a 6.5x55 in the UK i would think
the .270 rocks but the 30-06 rules
can go from a 55 grain head upto 220
what other calibre can cope with that
can take anything from rabbit upto lion
again apart from the .375HH
one calibre ,one life , one ruler
pick a calibre , live with it and learn to use it
you will never be dissapointed once you know the limitations of the tools in your possession

the need for another rifles hould never be questioned there is always room for one more!

i reckon you have two choices,

sell the 30.06 you have at the moment and get a stainless laminated version

or

use the one you have and enjoy it, if it gets a few dinks here and there or if the wood pales because you have been trudging in torrential rain for hours on end, when you do spend a bit of time on TLC cleaning the mud and blood off or oiling the wood back you will enjoy it even more.

remember, all damage can be fixed!


if the desire for a second rifle is so great, you wont go far wrong with a 243.

i have both and to be honest they both have their place but sometimes only to 30 will do...

I'm currently in the process of building a .25-06. I found an old FN action, 8mm Mauser at a pawn shop for $50.

I had a Broughton barrel made, bored for .25 caliber and chambered for the .25-06. I've dropped the action into a Richard's Microfit laminated stock and a Huber Concepts trigger installed. (a very nice trigger by the way)

I'm going to have the entire barrel and action covered with a Gun-Kote finish by KG Industries. I had this coating put on a muzzleloader and it's amazingly abrasion resistant as well as corrosion resistant.

The .25-06, in my estimation is a great rifle, especially loaded with the 120 grain bullets for medium size game and those smaller.

I'm not a big fan of the .243. I've tracked far too many whitetails that were shot with one. A 100 grain bullet sometimes just doesn't have the "oomph" if bone is encountered.

But that's my opinion based on a dozen or so experiences with the .243.

Amir

One big problem is that once you have one you wont want to use anything else!

It is closer to the 30-06 than the .243 stick to using either 100 or 115gr Ballistic Tips and you will be delighted with it.

I loved mine that much I shot the barrel out and have just had it rebarrelled.

Think of the .243 as about half-way between a .223 and a 25/06 which is very close to a .270 but without the recoil.

With the right bullets the 25/06 can be used on 200+ pound "deer" at ranges past where most of us should be shooting.

I've used one to take several mule deer, an antelope, a couple of caribou and when the opportunity arose while hunting caribou, a 56" moose. I wouldn't tell you that the 25/06 would be my first choice for moose (or black bear etc) but with the proper shot presentation and at reasonable range it will suffice --- it also makes a very nice sheep rifle -- if you aren't hunting in grizzly country.

I've just had a Ruger M77/II rebarreled with a Lothar Walther barrel, from 270W to 25-06; it's because I've bought in the meantime a Tikka T3 Lite cal. 270WSM that is VERY accurate and light and I hate to have 2 rifles in the same caliber (Why? ). I got it a couple of weeks ago and I couldn't test it yet. Anyway, I suspect that it will lie often in the safe, since I tend to use more than enough gun and the T3 is so attractive...... An interesting thread, though.

Amir

A consideration that has struck me after due consideration of your parsimonious nature!

One moderator would successfully transfer between both rifles, once the barrels had been threaded. Thus in both cases, the recoil and muzzle blast would be removed.

Either rifle can be downloaded to replicate a 7x57 or 6,5x55 (care please, research of suitable powders required).

If you would like convincing of that, your little friend down here uses a .270 as her working rifle. Downloaded, it works perfectly for sub-200m shots, beyond which the trajectory assumes a golf-ball like path.

Point being, it has less recoil than some air rifles I have fired. The 150gn bullet is travelling at 'just' deer legal velocities and does very little meat damage with minimal haematoma. See, you can turn big ones into little ones - but not the other way around!

If you come down this way - get in touch and we will bring over a couple of these .270s for your education. I think your eyes will be opened as to the flexibility open to a reloader like yourself.

We can then fire a .243 through a 8lb combi-gun. Believe me, you soon appreciate that calibre is not the governing factor in obtaining the desired result.

One of the most unpleasant rifles I have ever shot was a Browning A-bolt in .243 win. For some reason, it gave a sharp rap on the shoulder that was more noticeable than the shove off my .375!

Rgds Ian

I like the 25-06 but think of it as a specialist rifle cartridge - medium size deer at long range. It is very deadly on medium game, but far too much for fox, if you want to save the hide. the picture below shows the entrance hole on a pronghorn antelope buck that I shot in the shoulder at about 150M with a 120 Nosler partition at 3000 fps. Killed the antelope very well, but it's obviously not a good load if you were shooting fur animals. Perhaps a full metal jacket would be OK for fox.

I've used the 87gr bullets on red fox and 100gr bullets on whitetailed deer. Crows and groundhogs and coyotes have fallen to my 25-06 over the decades. Also Namibian springboks. (I must also admit to exploding european starlings off of apple tree limbs in my younger days!) Like the foxes, I use FMJ bullets on wild turkeys cause of less meat\pelt damage, and download them to a slower speed. I have never used factory ammo.
Recoil is less than the 30-06 because of using lighter weight bullets.
It's just about the perfect deer\varmint caliber there is. I wouldn't be without one...except the time my so chambered Rem 700 was stolen.

quote:

Originally posted by enfieldspares:
Those that have them, that I speak to, "love" them. At the same time none of them, at the same time, have a 270 Winchester in their cabinet.

They tend to be 243 + 25-06 + 308 (or 30-06) users.

That, in itself, speaks volumes. The 270 Winchester will do ALL the 25-06 will do better, cheaper, with a wider range of factory bullets and reloader's bullets.

If you've a "slew" of cheap .257 bullets go for it. If not? I can't see a role for it at either end (except non-military spec) that the Swedish Mauser of the 270 doesn't do better in UK or Europe.

Plus...cheap 270s? Guntrader is full of them! Spend the money you've saved on a decent 'scope.

True enough sir, I hesitate however as the 270 and 30-06 are just too close to consider as choice in the morning, it would come down to the individual rifles in that case.

The 257 certainly is appearing to be a bit too big for what IO have in mind if it indeed closer to the 270 than the 243.

I found your example above interesting, since I have a 30-06 and was originally looking for a 243, you seem to be hinting at there being some sort of sensible middle ground between the 243 and the 30 cal; If I have read your statement correctly I would be glad if you were to elaborate this a little?

This is getting interesting, I'm off to play with some more ballistics software....

Thank you and with regards,

Amir

quote:

Originally posted by tom ga hunter:
I have a 243, 257 Roberts, and a 25'06. I live in the SE USA so I don't know what your factory ammo situation is but in the US a Roberts is a handloading gun. On small deer around 100# a 243 will do fine if you place your shots in the heart or lungs. I use 120 gr bullets for both the 257 & 25'06- the 257 at 2,800fpt & the '06 at 3,000fps. 1 of my 257's shoots 85gr amaxes & 120 partations to almost the same place but my only 25'06 does not like under 120 gr bullets. If you shoot a deer with a 25'06 using a cup & core bullet under 100 yds you will have a lot of meat damage. If you have any other questions please let me know I have killed a reasonable amount of game with both the 257 & 25'06.

Thank you for posting, I am always glad for the benefit of your experience with the 25-06 in the field.

I do have a few question if I may?

What sort of ranges do you shoot your deer and at with what sort of shot placement? I ask as most of our deer in lowland England is taken below 150 yards and the preferred shot is just behind the shoulder hereby missing the shoulder bone but possibly hitting a rib and through the heart and lungs.

I am happy to wait for deer to assume the position above and therefore won't feel the need for "raking" or through the shoulder shots, except perhaps occasionally on Sika, so i'm interested to hear how various bullets perform under these circumstances.

For sika, which I hear are disproportionately tougher in relation to their size, I may need to take shoulder shots on occasion to stop the beast running too far.

Regards,

Amir

quote:

Originally posted by nightwalker uk:
If I owned a 30-06 and wanted a "general" everyday do it all calibre I would just go with a 243.

Handles everything, and also has the added advantage of getting it on ticket now for crows etc.

You might not do that at the moment Amir but in the future who knows??

Thats what I would do anyway??

Again far enough, the only thing that worries me slightly about the 243 is the chance of Sika on my syndicate.

Perhaps tough bullets in the 243 is the way to go?

Regards,

Amir

quote:

Originally posted by Alex.Y:
the need for another rifles hould never be questioned there is always room for one more!

i reckon you have two choices,

sell the 30.06 you have at the moment and get a stainless laminated version

or

use the one you have and enjoy it, if it gets a few dinks here and there or if the wood pales because you have been trudging in torrential rain for hours on end, when you do spend a bit of time on TLC cleaning the mud and blood off or oiling the wood back you will enjoy it even more.

remember, all damage can be fixed!


if the desire for a second rifle is so great, you wont go far wrong with a 243.

i have both and to be honest they both have their place but sometimes only to 30 will do...

Yep, I think you have put your finger on it, just use the bloody thing!


You rumbled me straight way, I just want another rifle!

I want a stainless/synthetic jobbie, in direct contrast to my sworn beliefs as early ago as last autumn , and the calibre wants deciding.

See above re: the 243 but I must say the 25.06 is tempting....


Regards,

Amir

quote:

Originally posted by wildboar:
I've just had a Ruger M77/II rebarreled with a Lothar Walther barrel, from 270W to 25-06; it's because I've bought in the meantime a Tikka T3 Lite cal. 270WSM that is VERY accurate and light and I hate to have 2 rifles in the same caliber (Why? ). I got it a couple of weeks ago and I couldn't test it yet. Anyway, I suspect that it will lie often in the safe, since I tend to use more than enough gun and the T3 is so attractive...... An interesting thread, though.

I am interested in your view about having two rifles in the same calibre, I would very much like to!

I think that our local licensing constabulary have a policy against two rifles in the same calibre for what they view as the "same" hunting use.

Regards,

Amir

quote:

Originally posted by IanF:
Amir

A consideration that has struck me after due consideration of your parsimonious nature!

One moderator would successfully transfer between both rifles, once the barrels had been threaded. Thus in both cases, the recoil and muzzle blast would be removed.

Either rifle can be downloaded to replicate a 7x57 or 6,5x55 (care please, research of suitable powders required).

If you would like convincing of that, your little friend down here uses a .270 as her working rifle. Downloaded, it works perfectly for sub-200m shots, beyond which the trajectory assumes a golf-ball like path.

Point being, it has less recoil than some air rifles I have fired. The 150gn bullet is travelling at 'just' deer legal velocities and does very little meat damage with minimal haematoma. See, you can turn big ones into little ones - but not the other way around!

If you come down this way - get in touch and we will bring over a couple of these .270s for your education. I think your eyes will be opened as to the flexibility open to a reloader like yourself.

We can then fire a .243 through a 8lb combi-gun. Believe me, you soon appreciate that calibre is not the governing factor in obtaining the desired result.

One of the most unpleasant rifles I have ever shot was a Browning A-bolt in .243 win. For some reason, it gave a sharp rap on the shoulder that was more noticeable than the shove off my .375!

Rgds Ian

Parsimony applied to the idea of rifles is a such a fundamental misapplication of the entire concept of Occam's Razor, one such that I would be thoroughly ashamed to espouse!

In relation to your suggestion on swapping moderators, I suppose I could do so to begin with but shouldn't I be getting a calibre specific baffle set for each rifle?

The Tikka will be getting screwcut sometime next month if that helps, i was going to ask for a 1/2" UNF unless there is some reason not?

As to down loading, that is certainly an are to explore, I will be trying to put together a reduced load for the 150 gr speer btsp that I read from the manufacturer website are made softer than their "normal" or hot-core bullets.

The reduced velocity was hoped for by trying a slower powder and working up an accurate load at around the published minimum charge weight.

The point of the calibre question is work out what to alternative to chamber the alternative UK stalking rifle in, your suggestion of 25.06 is indeed tempting, especially as I know who has the thing!

Regards,

Amir

I think that whilst a 243 can be used on sika there are many who would advise something a little bit bigger. And that would also mean a little heavier than 120 grains which is about top in the 25-06.

I do not think that two rifles in the same calibre is now something that s sensible licensing regime would refuse.

As you say your needs are quite common sense. Wood and blued steel for fine weather....plastic and stainless steel for foul weather.

After all many old time shooters had the best sidelock for game and the "knockabout" boxlock for use on saltings.

The other MASSIVE benefit as far as the police are concerned is that you would require no increase in ammunition holding or a "duplicate" quantity in a second calibre.

I have two 270 rifles on my FAC.

So you have a 30-06 in the cabinet plus an additional "smaller gun" and are going stalking somewhere where you mayencounter Sika, (asuming that they are tougher to kill than other species) Which gun do you pick up?

So the Sika argument is kinda redundant?

Load some different bullet/powders in the ott and shoot a statistically significant sample of quarry before working out exactly what you need form a second rifle. If ou hunt abroad the 06 does the job, Sheep, Africa etc...

I'm all for more guns is better. But choices made in haste often come back to bite you on the arse so go out and shoot more critters with the 06, and I promise not to charge you for the meat damage.

Now before I start ranting [start? maybee a bit in my head ] you know the rest.

When you gonna be well enough to come out to play?

By the way. What kind of idiot drops a rifle out of a high seat let alone one with top grade walnut? What a numpty!!

amir

i think you need a 9,3x62 in a nice valnut stock, the get a piece of plactic for the bad weather if you really need it(but only IF you really need it)
on the other end the swede is a really good alternative(or my pet 6,5x54MS)

peter

P.S i dont know jack shit about the american calibers you talk about, but i know of a MS in 6,5x57 if you want the speed.
now that is a gun with class

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:

I am interested in your view about having two rifles in the same calibre, I would very much like to!

I think that our local licensing constabulary have a policy against two rifles in the same calibre for what they view as the "same" hunting use.

Regards,

Amir

No, it's my (bizarre) point of view; I simply don't like to have 2 rifles in the same caliber. Fortunately here, providing a valid hunting permit, we can buy how many rifles our wallet can accommodate; no previous permission from the authorities. Strangely enough, sound moderators are strictly forbidden, as well as full autos; magazine capacity is limited to 10 rounds.

I shoot a lot of sika every year with my 25 and ballistic tips and do not have a problem with them.

I have just got back from stalkiing tonight with my 25 the tally was 1 Red stag calf, 2 young Roe bucks and 2 Muntjac bucks. All shot with 115gr BT's only 1 ran, the smallest of the 2 Munty buck went 5m everything dropped on the spot.

Go on buy a 25 you know you need another gun.

If you don't mind a Colonial answering I must say that, even though I don't own one myself, in South Texas, shooting large Whitetail deer down long "Senderos" (open lanes), the .25-06 is very highly regarded.

Thank you for posting, I am always glad for the benefit of your experience with the 25-06 in the field.

I do have a few question if I may?

What sort of ranges do you shoot your deer and at with what sort of shot placement? I ask as most of our deer in lowland England is taken below 150 yards and the preferred shot is just behind the shoulder hereby missing the shoulder bone but possibly hitting a rib and through the heart and lungs.

I am happy to wait for deer to assume the position above and therefore won't feel the need for "raking" or through the shoulder shots, except perhaps occasionally on Sika, so i'm interested to hear how various bullets perform under these circumstances.

For sika, which I hear are disproportionately tougher in relation to their size, I may need to take shoulder shots on occasion to stop the beast running too far.

Regards,

Amir[/QUOTE]

I hunt on a large farm where the range can go from 25 to 350 Yards. Early in the season I hunt in very thick areas where 50 yds is a long shot. I have killed 20 or so deer with .25 cal rifles from a few feet to over 300 yds. Most of the time we have 20 or so seconds to make a shooting decisaion, set up and fire. I make lung/heart shots. I have over 60 centerfire rifles and usually use 4 to hunt with each season, 1 is always a .25 cal. In my opinion the 243 and 223 are very simular while the 257/25'06 are true big game rounds. We have feral hogs weighing up to 250 pounds on the farm so I load 120 partations, I have killed deer with 120gr Speer hot cores, 120 Winchester Power Points and 117 Sierra Flat Bases. They all kill well but I would not recommend the Winchesters because of meat damage. I load my 243 with 60 gr speer bullets for feral dogs, coytes and turtles.

I've been telling you for a long time now Amir - what you need is one of those plastic Blaser R93s in 308. Shoot light and fast bullets in it, shoot heavy ones somewhat slower, no need for a 243 or 25 anything. The rain doesn't bother it, nor does the mud and I could probably sell mine for more than I paid for it. Works on sika as well, though this chap ran about 40 yards but he tastes just fine :-)

The 25-06 is a wonderful caliber for all of the animals you want to hunt.
It will be VERY hard on foxes, don't plan on skinning many as they will come preskinned.
For deer sized animals, even elk sized it is a fantastic caliber.
Will it do anything the 06 won't? not really.
Just balances a tad more muzzle heavy, shoots flatter, kicks less and is a hoot to shoot.
They both kill extremely well and until you get up into the 150 grain bullets in the 06 not a damn bit different.
The 165's and 180 is where the 06 starts to pull away for the bigger game.
But the 06 will not kill your deer any faster , it will only allow you to shoot one in the arse and still take out his boiler with the right bullet.

Thank you all for your responses.

I have had a play with ballistics charts, looked at Sectional density tables and generally obsessed over this for a good while, helped in no end by all the comments on here.

It seems that the definite is my need for a new rifle, on that at least all are agreed , as to the calibre, I cited the 25.06 because a nice rifle came up and it was in that calibre.

Following the very good advice of 1894 on this forum I was sold on the rifle, rather than necessarily the calibre.

I will have to consider this one.

Perhaps a 6.5 mm, 270 or a 7 mm would be a better choice, then again It may be better to get a .22 cf first and leave this decision for after that and a big-game rifle have been sorted out as a few have said.

Thanks again gentlemen, confusion happily seems to be an enlightening experience on this forum

Regards,

Amir

Do you have access to either the 7-08 or the .260 Remington ---- either one, with the proper loads, would seem to be a very versatile cartridge for the animals, conditons, and ranges you list.

And they both have very modest recoil and aren't as loud as most of the others listed.

quote:

Opinions on the .25-06 please

Amir,

.25/06 Remington is a great cartridge that would certainly fulfill the requirements you've established for your shooting.

Recoil is mild(ish).

Requires a standard long action & a long barrel (24"+) to eak all of the potential out of the cartridge (a consideration if you want to put a Moderator on it).

The 24" barreled 25/06's I've shot are LOUD.

Ammunition & components are probably easily located in the UK - on the Continent that'll be another story.

Have fun making your decision.

quote:

Originally posted by Cazador humilde:
If you don't mind a Colonial answering I must say that, even though I don't own one myself, in South Texas, shooting large Whitetail deer down long "Senderos" (open lanes), the .25-06 is very highly regarded.

Advice from another colonial Texican (late of Donegal, circa 1650 )

While I have taken elk with essentially the same ballistics (.257 Ackley ),I do not recommend it for this or the larger deer as I get older.

If you have a .243 already, treat yourself to a real energy upgrade, with universally available ammo, a 30-06 or a 7 mag.

(Unless you perceive the need for a .375 for other future excursions. )

Amir,if the 30-06 leaves 'em in pieces,the big 25,(same case,1/2 size bullets)is really going to make a mess.
I decided to sell the 2 I used to have, because where I usually hunt ,the ranges are almost always under 100 meters,and I just dont need that much cartridge.But,dont let that stop you,it is a great round.
I do think you would be happy with a 257 roberts,espcially if you were to get the chamber improved, with the 40 degree shoulder,and minimum body taper.
just a thought.

Where possible I shoot my deer for the table.
If the circumcstances allow I head/neck shoot my deer,generally from a high seat.
Otherwise it is in general a shot from the side of a tree or braced on a log,all those positions we cannot emulate on a rifle range.Especially when we have heaved our body over a bit of ground and the sweat/adrenalin factor has kicked in And it will be a boiler room shot,heart and lungs.
Just looking at the velocities of the 25,06 would suggest to me that it will be a meat mincer.mind you I haven,t owned or shot one !
my 2c worth.

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:

most of our deer in lowland England is taken below 150 yards and the preferred shot is just behind the shoulder hereby missing the shoulder bone but possibly hitting a rib and through the heart and lungs.

I am happy to wait for deer to assume the position above and therefore won't feel the need for "raking" or through the shoulder shots, except perhaps occasionally on Sika, so i'm interested to hear how various bullets perform under these circumstances.

As my access to stalking has increased I have found that so too have the situations where it is possible to shoot at longer distances than this. Fields abounding woodland edges are classic situations where it might be possible to want to shoot further. Whether you do or not is down to you!

Personaly I wouldn't get too hidebound about avoiding the shoulder. As you move off the shoulder so the diaphragm and rumen get nearer lower down. Add in anything such as failure to take account of angle and or displacement of shot and you have a potential situation on your hands.

Now to the calibre. If you can truly do what you say above then you can shoot any deer in the UK with a 243! As we are all mortal there are times when things might not be quite so perfect.

I don't shoot a 25-06 and likely never will unless a nice rifle in that calibre comes along. I do shoot a handloaded 6mm rem that does with 90gr bullets what a 25-06 does with factory 100gr. It is a delight so too I suspect would be a 25-06 albeit a fair bit louder.

Personally I don't think it's the best choice to moderate as it's a long action with a lot of powder. I've always felt that when a moderator is considered that a short action (use the 1.5" saved for barrel length or a shorter rifle) and less powder is better and that is why my moderated rifles are a 243 and a 7mm08 and not a 25-06 and a 30-06. Nice rifles at bargain prices tend to change me viewpoints on such things however.

The issue with noce rifles at bargain prices is that they often are cheap due to poor configuration (so not nice rifles) or wrong calibres that someone else has found a problem with.

I've taken possesion of several Fallow that were shot with 25-06's (125gr IIRC) and they were brutally damaged. Given the issue was brought to light after the evisceration of a CWD with the 30-06, I actually believe this calibre would be worse not better.

Agreed, a 260Rem or 7-08 would be a better choice for a light weight stainless synthetic stalking rifle that might be a bit easier to travel with than the 243, assuming you wouldn't travel with the 30-06....

The choices are endless and once you have a second rifle you will find reasons for a third, fourth and fifth inn short order!!!

FB

I'm with Kiri - use the 30/06 for the sika/driven boar and grab a 243/257/260/7mm08 for the lighter stuff.

I 'nearly' buy a rifle every week - don't worry another bargain is just around the corner, especially with the current economic conditions.

Thanks guys for all the replies and advice. The breath and depth of experience on this forum is truly something special.

Thanks in particular to our cousins from across the pond for chiming in with their experiences, I realize the calibre gets a lot more use over there!

After due consideration I have decided not get the rifle, as sorely tempted as I am, rather to use the 30.06 for the larger critters and use a .22 centre-fire of some description for foxes and to see how it fares with the scottish roe.

Regards,

Amir