Hi I am so sick of sitting around for the past 02 days so I thought I will start somenthing to stir the pot ........HHAHAH

After each hunt I presume most of us reuse any unfired rounds for the next stalk right?

Have you thought about the consequenses?

OK I habitually bring 08 rounds on a average stalk. My main stalking rifle is a Blaser K95 in 6.5 x 55.

One up the chamber and 07 in a garland cammo pouch.

A few months ago I decided to test fire the unused rounds and make notes on the atmospheric condition of my previous outing, POI and chrono speeds.

OK call me names if you want to (thats the whole point of this thread) on 02 out of 07 batches of ammo will not chrono to the same speed I had loaded them to and further more even more worrying the POI have shifted slightly.

I checked my diary and these 02 batches coincides with very very wet and cold conditions.

(80%+ humidity and 2 degrees C or below ambient temperature)

OK bottom line.

I have now deceided to pull ammo (I reload) after a stalk if the day has 80+% humidity or if it has been raining heavily.

OK OK OK we are hunting and not talking about bench rest competitions but this is a point nobdy has brought up before.

Spare a though for my friends who do not reload......

I reuse mine.


If you are having problems maybe its your powder and or Crimp???








Cal30

Serving in the Military, rounds would be exposed to the type of variations in conditions and temperatures that would make a weather station cry for its mother!

The things still went off with distressing reliability.

Ben, I think you have answered your own question.

We are not benchresting here. We are hunting and shooting into a 2" target (I'm being conservative), normally at less than 200 yds. Your rounds will work just fine for the purpose you loaded them!

As mentioned by Cal30, should you be getting wildly varying results and are happy with the quality of your neck tension and primer seating - the only thing left for consideration is the type of powder being employed.

Lower ambient temperature/higher altitude can have the effect of reducing case pressure and thus velocity. One of the reasons I tend to mostly reload using powders from the Hodgdons Extreme range (H4895, Varget etc).

I will use the same ammunition from Northern Canada to Namibia. Pressure fluctuations are something that I shouldn't be worrying about!

Hope you enjoyed the holiday break.

Rgds Ian

I know I know i know as I was saying I was getting bored after no doing nothing for 03 days so I though I will stir up something to talk about that's all..................heheheh

What I have been doing and I would like to share this tip with you folks (I don't think any body else have been doing before) is that whenever I fly with live ammo I vacum pack them. When I arrive for competition or hunting there is no doubt in my mind that condensation is not an issue and humidity is virually the same as when I loaded them.

B.T.W. I pack the vacum bag inside a metal case aka I.A.T.A. rules.

02 PH's I have hunted with are doing so the same thing now when they fly long haul since it cost peanuts and it really works.

Happy shooting everyone.........

so far no airline have picked up the fact that the ammo have got to be packed seperately in factory plastic seperator yet ! ......................

BTW the variation I was talking about is so small I am really nit picking.

I commissioned a custom made (one off) seating pressure gauge and I can control seating pressure to 0.5 pound variation - depth variation +/- 0.01 mm probably better tolerence than primer manufacturer tolerence.

Sine I came back from a 2 week bench rest shooting and reloading school in california I have been very sticky about these variations for really no good reason.

Conclusion

The less I know the better............I will start to enjoy my shooting.

londonhunter,
take care because you are going in a mental masturbation field. And this is worst than a mine field .
A 3 days of doing nothing can be very dangerous for everybody, but to stir the pot with your question I normally reuse my ammo during the hunting season, and at the end I usually go to the range and shoot them as you described.
I take care of the differences of the POI, but more for curiosity because I know that, for example, I loaded ammo for wild boar hunting on September, with a still warm season, and I'll finish on the 31th of January, with a probably still very cold temperature.
With so much differences in weather and temperature conditions I cannot have the same POI, nor the same group, but if they are in a acceptable range from the POI, with an acceptable group, well I don't care too much.
The example was made on a semiauto rifle, a remington 7400 30-06 Spfg, but I had the same mental approach with any rifle that I have. 6.5x55 included

Well put well put

I agree totally we should cancel christmas next year and hunt everyday...........how about that

I notice you are from Milan I visit there every 08 - 12 weeks from London shooting trap.
BTW Do you shoot trap at all?

My favourite tiro campo is in Umbaldo (may be wrong spelling)

Are there any nice rifle range east of milan towards val trompia?

Your advice is much appreciated.

I for one enjoy disappearing off for a while into mental tributaries of whatever peripheral issues surrounding any hobby.

Boredom also does terrible things to me.

Therefore, London hunter I salute you

Just to the variables here appear to physical dimensions, deterioration of the powder or primer and physical properties of the total system ie. of the round itself, perhaps neck tension reduces over time as the brass is subjected to constant outward force from the bullet or some such.

All except powder/primer degradation can be measured with micrometers,calipers scales etc.

Perhaps a wet/damp round can be dried over phosphorous pentoxide for a month or two to see whether the damp physically affects the powder or whether the damp catalyses reactions within the powder.

In fact tests could be done subjecting the various components to extremes of conditions and compare the results to that observed from when complete rounds are exposed to the same conditions.

Does anyone seal their primers or bullets into the case?

A

Um, I reuse them even if the tips are squashed flat and they have been sitting in a pocket for ages. I am a neanderthal.

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:

Does anyone seal their primers or bullets into the case?

A

Yes! The military!

rgds Ian

Hi Ghubert we are flying in the coming weeks to our boar shoot. I bet you anything if we put a dry patch through the rifle barrel it will be damp after arrival.

I use a storm case for my competition and hunting guns and this still happens with a double air valve lock.

After my trip to Namabia this May, my safari rifle was lost by teh airline for 04 months. After collecting it from Terminal 5 I was informed that it was stored by the South African police in their J'burg HQ for the past 3.5 months. I opened the case and I was horrified by the amount of moisture and condensation. Action screws have rusted and so has the magazine bottom plates. I did not dare to stick a borescope up the barrel. Also lost was 40 live rounds in a seperate storm case. Before I sold the rifle I shot all the rounds to satify my curiosity and there and it will not hold a decent group and sprayed lead all over the place.(Bit exaggerated) it was holding 0.75 inches at 100 yards during the hunt and it was barely holding 1.5+ inches. Anyway that is somebody else problems now. But my point is that moisture and condensation WILL affect ammo. We can be "butch" ignore the problem and say that it has never affected me so far.

But it you have to fly to a hunt and you have saved up top(pounds)hard earned dollars for the hunt and the first shot has to count. I will be extra careful about my loaded ammo and rifle when flying.

Thats all I am saying. It all about risk management and if it cost me nothing or very little what have I got to loose?

I have a shooting friend who is a serving army trained sniper. You should see the care he takes over his ammunition and rifle.

When his buddies life depends on his skills every opputunity to mininise a badly placed shot should be checked and double checked......

anyway enough rambling

quote:

Originally posted by Boghossian:
Um, I reuse them even if the tips are squashed flat and they have been sitting in a pocket for ages. I am a neanderthal.

Bog, you are a neanderthal. Do you not know that those tips can be touched up as "good-as-new" with bit of sandpaper, or even a penknife?

Londonhunter, I am in awe of your dedication to detail.

if my loads doesnt work in both Siberia and Africa, they're useless in my opinion.

that's why i always use magnum primers, and will settle down with 1.5-2 MOA accuracy

Hello Stefan

I see your handle as 9.3

I just love this profile I have quite a few of them.

Are there any hunting opportunities for visitors to your wonderful country? If so any outfitters you can direct me?

THanks

Happy new year BTW

My personal opinon in this is that this is matter of shooter induced error.

I have litterly bathed during hunts, my reloads for hunting in batches of 50 get a few turns in the magasine and pocket and are after that returned to the MTM box, at the end of the season or when ever there are less than ten left they all get spent on the range.

I have to my great forfillment found that they are all shooting to POA and as good as they did at initial load testing.

I belive in my rifle and my reloads, perhaps that is were this all starts and ends.

CD- there are litle pen sharpernes to get in womens make up stores to get, for the dinged up bullet points that is.

How I know? I´d better not tell..


Best regards Chris

quote:

Originally posted by Husqvarna M98:

CD- there are litle pen sharpernes to get in womens make up stores to get, for the dinged up bullet points that is.

How I know? I´d better not tell..


Best regards Chris

Hah - a likely story. Be honest with yourself - is that REALLY why you hang around the makeup counter?

Rgds Ian

You will probably find that travel does the most damage to ammo performance.

Vibration causes powder degradation and if you hunting ammo has done lots of miles then this could explain the differences.

The British Army experienced this problem with Warrior in the 90's the 30mm carried was then limited to X track miles before having to be fired off.

quote:

Vibration causes powder degradation and if you hunting ammo has done lots of miles then this could explain the differences.

Tests by the American military have shown this is not an issue on small arms ammunition.

On some of the American reloading forums, there have been long running debates about the wisdom of tumbling live ammuntion and possible powder degredation was advanced as one of the reasons against it...

However a couple of guys tumbled a couple of batches of homeloads for several hours and then shot them over a chrony and found absolutely no difference to the none tumbled rounds from the same batches...

Case size and powder type will probably play a part on how susceptable ammo is to this sort of thing, but for the average stalker I suspect its pretty much a none issue.

Re the issue about damage to the tips of bullets, again unless you are shooting benchrest or extreme long range, dings and dents to the bullet tip make virtually no difference.

However, damage to the base of the bullet during bullet seating as its been reloaded has been shown to have a far bigger affect on accuracy and is a good justification for using boat tail bullets..

Regards,

Peter

quote:

Originally posted by Boghossian:
Um, I reuse them even if the tips are squashed flat and they have been sitting in a pocket for ages. I am a neanderthal.

im with boghossian here, with no apparent damage to the cartrigde, it goes in the chamber and hopefully

best regards

peter

quote:

Originally posted by londonhunter:
Hi Ghubert we are flying in the coming weeks to our boar shoot. I bet you anything if we put a dry patch through the rifle barrel it will be damp after arrival.

Londonhunter,

Have you tried using desiccate packs in your rifle and ammo cases?

Also Nappier do a couple of products which supposedly give off a slight vapour that coats bores ect and inhibits rust...I've not used these myself, but they may be worh a try,

Regards,

Peter

quote:

Originally posted by londonhunter:
Hello Stefan

I see your handle as 9.3

I just love this profile I have quite a few of them.

Are there any hunting opportunities for visitors to your wonderful country? If so any outfitters you can direct me?

THanks

Happy new year BTW

i like the 9.3 also, but i sold it a while i go.
simply because its unneccessary to have two big game rifles.
(except if i buy a 6.5 as a small game rifle, then the 9.3 would be just about right).

what kind of hunting are you interested in?
Norwegianhunter on this forum is a salesagent for Safari Management:
http://www.safarimgm.com/engelsk.html
(click destinations -> Norway

just shout out if you need any help

Hi The vacum pack replaces dessicated pack just in case customs ask what chemical I am carrying.

Anything difficult and challenging really in Norway. I have no idea why don't you introduce us to your wonderful country?

LH

Grab the Hunters Video ' Up high in Norway'.

Does a fine job of running through the options, Moose with dogs or from a stand, Red stags on the west coast,Roe deer with attitude, Beaver stalking in the spring, Capercaille, Grouse and Ptarmigan.... oh yes, Reindeer up in the largest remaining wilderness in Europe.



Believe me, a wonderous country to hunt in - any trophy is hard won in a land with a real hunting ethic.



Rgds Ian

Ian,

You've been warned about posting beaver pics on the forum before!

Regards

Peter

So Ian,

Where is the best place to hunt beaver

Thanks Ian

Will definately put Norway on my future research list. Relatively short flight and I sense hunter friendly country.

I am in the process considering a black bear torphy in Alberta for spring 2009 for pelt.

Feedback so far plenty of vacancy slot / tag even though we are five months away.........

Do you guys shoot driven game in UK. Same story I have quite a few offers for the next few weeks already.

I sense by next seasons many average drive shoots may not be around if they cannot make ends meet this season. sad in a way for them

While I am rambling have you guys heard that from Thursday Edgar brothers have increased across board 20 percent whatever it is under their wings. I have ordered so much reloading stuff my RFD called me "guyfawks" as nickname I would urge you nice people to do the same...............

Hi londonhunter,
excuse the delay but when on holidays I'm lazy in using pc.
I do not trap, I'm a rifle man, and about your rifle range question there is a private one, it is located in Lograto near Brescia, but it is dark because underground. I am range officer at Codogno shooting range 60 km south from Milan. It is a fine place. When you know that you can spend a Sunday in Italy pm me and we can organize a range and restaurant tour

and now I WISH FOR EVERY ONE A HAPPY NEW YEAR

Many many thanks I will definitely do so upon my next training trip to Italy which I think will be in early Feb.

I did visit an undersground range very near Gehdi under the Tiro gallery and thats mighty impressive........

Happy new year,
ok LH, you already saw the underground range. Waiting for your next trip.

Hi londonhunter,
if you wish to understand where the range is and :
Codogno Range locator

I was still writing "if you wish to understand where the range is and " to have some info about it