Myself and two friends are planning a trip to eastern Europe for wild boar in early January. We were due to go to Hungary in December, but the organiser has let us down.

My question is what is a reasonable expectation of the bag for a party of ten, shooting for three days?

We have been offered a package deal in north east Poland in January, at what seems like a reasonable price. The organiser of this trip predicts a daily bag of 20-25 animals, 12-15 boar plus the rest made up of Red deer hinds and Roe does, with a shot to kill ratio of 5-1. Does this seem like an acheivable number for 10 hunters?

Our other option is the Czech Republic. This is a little more expensive, but here we will apparently be able to stalk boar in daylight. Is this possible?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.
Brian.

I think that Poland offer is fair.

Have you talked to Diana?

D99

Diana ,

Diana is dead, right here in Paris!

Thank you for that constructive response M.de Runz.

Now, can anyone out there suggest what a reasonable expectation of the bag might be for 10 shooters, shooting for three days in Poland and paying Eu1,500 each for the privilege.

Thank you.

quote:

Originally posted by jbderunz:
D99

Diana ,

Diana is dead, right here in Paris!

Only the French!

Brian

http://www.diana.dk then switch to God's language and email or call them.

I would think 5 head a piece per 3 days.

Is that 1500 euro + a fee per animals or does that include all the animals you shoot?

Bill, most driven hunts are on an all-included basis, so no separate trophy fees. If you run into an area or outfitter offering something else, it should be easy enough to pick up another deal somewhere.

On the other hand, a driven hunt is not the best plan if you are looking for the biggest, meanest boar. They happen, but so does winning the lottery. Driven hunts are really more for the action, and you shoot at what comes along, and what has been declared open for hunting (e.g. pigs and female reds and roes).

- mike

The Eu 1,500 is all inclusive. The only trophy fee is if you shoot a Red Stag. Then you will pay fee until it really hurts.

This is being offered as an introductory offer.

I have never been on a driven hunt of this type before, and I am interested to hear the views of people who have. The agent is predicting a bag of c.70 animals for three days. I would be happy enough if the bag was 35-45 animals, I would just like an honest estimate before I part with the hard eraned money.

Brian.

Take very much care. Poland is shot out. Several hunting friend of me were in Poland for hunting in differnt areas. Only one shot one red deer. Only one shot a deer, a very small one. Within the last ten year the Poland hunting was only bussiness for quick money. The number of aminals they promised to you (wild boar also) is not realistig in relation to the prize and to the hunting conditions in Poland.
Take care.
Please tell us, after the hunt, what really happend in Poland.

Burkhard

I'd say there's just too many variables to give you the answer you want or don't want to hear.

Agree that if you're on a drive hunt, you take what comes along, and I'd guess 5 animals for 3 days drives should be fairly accurate. However, you could have bad luck on your stand positions and end up shooting one female Roe while someone gets better stand positions and shoots 5 boar, 2 reds, and a 3 roe. If you're looking for better chances on big Keilers, hunt those same 3 days consistently and only for them -- you're chances will be better.

This is not to say you won't enjoy the hunt and experiences, but don't get your heart set on large trophies on a drive hunt, you may be disappointed, Waidmannsheil, Dom.

Dom, I am quite happy to take my chances with lady luck on a driven hunt. I really just want the experience of a central European driven day. I am not bothered by big trophy tuskers, as long as a few fair chances come my way.

regards

Claret, I can see what Burkhard is saying, although it may be a bit of an exaggeration to describe an entire country as being "shot out".

Driven hunts are traditionally a complex undertaking to get involved in. Promises fly fast and furious when the hunt is sold, but whether reality lives up to expectations is a different matter. Are game populations sound, and how is the driven hunt organized (e.g. are sufficient dogs and beaters available, how beaters walk the forest, how stands are set up, how wounded game is located etc etc) is of paramount importance. This was always the case, in Poland and elsewhere.

I think that what Burkhard is referring to, is that over the last X years, a lot of hunts have been offered in Poland by private operators, who did not look too closely at game management or other finer points. As long as the DM or Euro rolled, things were good (for them).

But it is an exageration of painting this picture for the whole country. The State Forest areas still have a very good reputation, as do well organized private areas. Problem is: which one are you getting?? Unless you actually KNOW the people and the area, it is going to be hard to know. Good areas don't come as cheaply as bad areas, in particular not State Forest areas. But price normally matters less when it is a question of whether you wasted your time by going there in the first place.

I can't possibly comment on the offer you have been given. The promise of so many animals per day sounds liberal, but I can't say whether it is realistic. If you don't know your way around from past experience, it is not a bad idea to work with a large and well known agency to arrange such hunts. Yes, they are going to be more expensive (I assume), but they are in it for the long haul. They have contacts to good areas, and they can charge accordingly. There are never any guarantees, even with a large agency, but your chances of a well organized hunt in an area with sound game populations rise.

- mike

O.K. guys, I'll get into this exchange as well, perhaps I can add some clarity to Brain's query.

Driven shooting in Europe is, like hunting anywhere else in the world no guarantee that game will be taken. There are just too many factors involved, from shooting ability, using appopriate equipment, rifles, calibers, sights, locating game, driving it, dogs, beaters, the shooter's ability to judge the correct game (and see it, initially too), wind, weather, terrain, shoot organization, etc. and for example even the "potential" language barrier that could occur between a group of Brits and their Polish hosts (the orginizer will speak English but not every beater, dog handler and assistant). Wow, just all sorts of things can go right/wrong. You just simply have to judge the potential pitfalls, risks and good luck. At the end of the day you are asking us with some experience to assist in evaluating the risk potential, fair enough.

Like everywhere else you have good days and bad days. The quality and quantity of the potential bag on a Driven Day be it offered from an outfitter or private invitation is always a surprize.

I've been on Driven Days with bags ranging from 150, 117, 55, 28, 13 and of course, 0 Wild Boar and those have been single days not three. The best days have always been fantastic and they are a fair toss up between private invitations and those offered by outfitters. These really good days are far and few among the number of days that where an animals isn't seen, a shot taken or been placed on a peg where neighbors ran out of ammo while others never had a opportunity. It just runs the gamut, you takes your chances, so to speak.

Having said all that, the vast majority of reputable regional and international outfitters making offers such as you have received (and I received the same offer from this outfitter via their internet update service) and my PERSONAL take-away was the offer sounded reasonable, so reasonable that I even considered the option myself. Again, sounds reasonable but there is certainly NO GUARANTEE. My expereince has been that if there is no game available, driven, seen or the shooting is not up to par these outfitters have always offered adjustments and/or additional benefits. Their reputation is just too valuable not to attmept to please clients. Personally, I've yet to be on a Driven Day where the organizer's; either private or profesional, didn't go out of their way to ensure that all shooters involved had an equal opportunity to be optimally placed to ensure success, at least to see and shoot at game. There are those who are so lucky as to virtually get run over by game, run out of ammo (either successfully or not) or couldn't hit the broad side of a barn from inside and those who couldn't even find a running boar in their sights from spitting distance, let alone mount their rifle and deliver a telling shot at a fleeing animal. Also, you've got three days and the hunt organization and the shooters will already know by Day 1 whether it will be tough going or not and be able to adjust their strategies to meet expectations. Since this is an introductory offer from this outfitter they MAY even perhaps send a company representative to observe for evaluation (I've personally seen this from this outfitter previously, a point worth asking, it may give some additional reassurances).

You mentioned correctly that in this offer, Wild Boar, Hinds and Roe Deer Does are on the agenda. I would imagine an expereinced group of UK nimrods will have no difficulty spotting and identifying speices of Deer they are already intimately familiar with. As you already know the antlers of the Roe Deer will have already shed so there may be some ID issues for the lesser expereinced. Shooting a Stag WILL make a serious dent in your Cheque Book (not bad huh?) While on private invitations we always go out of our way to ensure Brits who are not so fortunate to have Wild Boar on their everday menu to get an opportunity although since this is a pay-as-you-go affair it's probabaly gonna be every man for himself. Since Wild Boar are not seen everyday in the UK there may be some UK shooter learning curve such as picking/selecting the shot, I.D.ing Boar both singly and in Sounders, etc. but these are issues that come with expereince - you'll get three days worth!

Brian, hope this helped.

quote:

Since Wild Boar are not seen everyday in the UK there may be some UK shooter learning curve such as picking/selecting the shot, I.D.ing Boar both singly and in Sounders, etc. but these are issues that come with expereince - you'll get three days worth!

Gerry,

Would I read that correctly that only the male pigs are supposed to be sausages? And the Sows are supposed to be left?

regards,
FB

I think what Gerry is referring to, is the difficulty of avoiding to shoot lactating sows.

- mike

I've been to Poland several times for this type of hunting and we always pay according to a price list for the animals that are actually shot; thus you pay for what you get.
A predection of 70 animals in 3 days with 10 rifles sounds a bit unrealistic to me or at least not very "price-wise" for someone organising it. IMO an expectation of 30-40 animals for that price would be more realistic. In such package deals in Poland they mostly garantee you an average of 1 animal per rifle per day. Therefor I advise you to negotiate a garanteed minimum number and a refund for every animal you shoot less.

Brian,

Oh No, on Drive Hunts both Males & Female Wild Boar end up being sausages.

In the fast & sometimes furious shooting on a Driven Hunt there will most likely be little time to identify each and every Wild Boar (or Sow) that comes by in a Sounder (a group). The term Sounder, (if I am using the term correctly) is the name of a "group, gaggle, herd", or otherwise a bunch of pigs. They may be walking slowly, stumbling, trotting, running or fleeing panic stricken (most often) because in most cases they are getting their hamstrings chewed on by a pack of howling dogs. Net, you do the best you can under the circumstances, take your shot and sort them out later.

When hunting Wild Boar alone from High Seats in the Full Moon & snow or with adequate light there is normally enough time to identify Size, Sex, the Lead Sow, Mothers with Piglets, etc.

The rule of thumb in many locations here on the Continent is:
1. Don't shoot the Lead Sow. In many cases easily identifiable, the Lead Sow leads the Sounder and is the oldest, largest and most experienced Female. She will be in front, or very close to the front of a group of Wild Boar (pardon my cynism) because the rest of the group is simply following her.

2. Don't shoot Females that can be identified as leading (or like Mike says, lactating) young Piglets. Easily identifiable to us of the male gender as they have large, pronounced female bits that we're so fond of glaring at. (Just use your well-developed talents).


Personally, on a paid hunt in Poland I wouldn't get too upset about all of this. If there are special instructions or wishes they will be communicated to you. I'd concentrate on the more important part and this is what I was referring to, which is placing a telling shot into a single Wild Boar (of either sex) that will most likely be running in a group to avoid their pusuers or the line of shooters. Not easy, depending on the speed, angle, size of the sounder, distance, etc. I was simply remarking that you don't get this type of shooting for Wild Boar in the UK so it will be something very different and new for you.

It's all too easy to wound another behind or shoot too soon, or wait until they're trodding on your bootlaces where it may get real dicey. What I was trying to convey is that there is a learning curve for all of this for shooters who haven't been on this type of hunt before.

There will be minutes, hours and perhaps days, of standing or sitting idle, waiting and then all hell will break loose for only several seconds. As the say - "ShowTime!"

Personally, I think Driven Wild Boar shooting is the Sport of Kings.

If you decide to go I wish you every success and hope you guys have a great time!

quote:

Originally posted by Claret_Dabbler:
Thank you for that constructive response M.de Runz.

Thank you.

D99 & Claret

I apologise. The day I wrote this joke was my birthday's,52,I was a little tipsy and couldn't resist the temptation of a stupid joke.
No offense was suggested. Sorry


About Your dream travel.........

like Dom there are so many variables.

All depend of the organisation, the territories, the precedent bags, the number of hunts per day.

For the price, one can feel good with everybody shooting 2 animals per day.
Trophies are hardly imaginable. Usually one get a trophy when searching a selected one, by stalking or high-standing. The driven hunt is too uncertain.

Take care of regulations and limitations. Most of the time it's forbiden to shoot boars over 50 kg (100#) or envisage penalties. Big trophy boars have a price.
Stag is not cheap, You better have with You somebody announcing the price of every rushing stag, if possible.

I insist on the fact that You obtain a comprehensive contract.
It can strongly help you tell everybody You'll publish reports of the hunt in forums and magazines, for the same price You'll have VIP treatment.


So many variables?????????????

Claret,

Do YOur best to find people or team having hunted this area at this period , not neccessarely with the same outfitter.

Heartily, I wish You good luck.

QUOTE]

D99 & Claret

I apologise. The day I wrote this joke was my birthday's,52,I was a little tipsy and couldn't resist the temptation of a stupid joke. .[/QUOTE]

No worries!

jbderunz.....

A belated Happy Birthday greeting!

Hi Guys, some good advice from Gerry, i too rate driven boar highly, it is very exciting.
Like Gerry i've been on some fantastic hunts, personaly bagging as much as 8 pigs(including a massive mature boar) 2 deer and a fox within a 4 hour drive, on others ive bagged 6 pigs, a few deer, a fox or two, others a pig and a deer, on others nothing. It is pretty much the look of the draw, its difficult to predict in which directions the animals wil bolt, but a well thought out possitioning of stands, near game trails etc will help.
Pig identification is actualy realy easy, i have quite a bit to do with clients comeing over from the UK, and i try to take them to a local game park, if time permits, to give them a quick lesson in pig recognition. when a rotte or sounder of pigs comes busrting out of a thicket and running past you, it becomes obviouse which is the fuhrende bache (lead sow), shooting the lead sow screws up the birth control rate and family structure within a herd, as it is the lead sow who keeps this in check. single sows on thier own are fair game.
Driven boar hunts are some of the most enjoyable and productive ways to perform a cull. I'm actualy on a hunt tommorow. the last 3 years we have bagged around 80 boar and maybe 20 deer on this hunt each time, so i'm expecting good things tommorow. but it is certainly one of the better areas for this. The weather plays a role, as do the quality of the dogs, and the motivation of the beaters, you get one thicket that doesn't get driven through properly and you can garuantee the pigs are holed up in it.
I am actualy short of guns for a 2 day driven boar / deer hunt on 26th -27th November if any of you guys are interested, cost is 200 euro per day, no trophie fees are charged, accomodation is on top, but is very reasonable. This hunt usualy sells for 300 pounds per day via my UK aquaintance who has an agency.

Now Poland, well i'm once bitten, twice shy. ive not done driven over there, but stalking and high seats, we never sat in the same place twioce or stalked the same place twice, as the game always seemed to be just over the border to the next estate, ( funnily enough after conferring between us, land marks noted, the borders seemed to change daily. ) no this was an attempt to make us "kill hungry" and then after hunting 4 days and no shot, the last couple of days youd see, large, expensive trophy animals, lots of guys would fall for this and pull the trigger,, not me. I'm not bothered if i shoot anything or not. I also didn't appreciate the piles of empty beer cans under the high seats..
but this was just one bad area bad out fit. other guys i know have great experiences in Poland, Hungary is another good destination, as are the Balkan states and Checrepublic. Turkey is also a good destination for a lot of boar, but for the same reason i won't buy a chineese lathe, i won't hunt in Turkey.
Good sport can be had out there, just be carefull, go with a reputable agent or organisation.
bargains can be had through contacts with contacts in the know.

Equipment for driven boar..
Optics.
ive treid open sights red dot sights scopes, the lot. the very best that i have used is the Schmidt & Bender zenith scopes with the flash dot reticle.. absolutely superb for fast shots at moving game.
an aimpoint or similat is good in close cover, but as you never know which stand you will get, you might be in more open ground where game comes trotting past at 120m, or it might be at arms length. i used to carry a scope and an aimpoint, so i was covered for all eventualities, since trying the zenith flash dot, i know its advantages, its superb for every situation encountered when after driven game.
Rifles.
popular are quick to operate rifles like that piece of junk the Blasr R93.
I had great success with a Marlin 1895M. I find no real disadvantage in using a normal bult gun, infact i'm using my remington 700 tommorow.
I'm currently playing with re barreling remington 7400's and 7600's to 9.3x62. semi autos are also a good ploy, the browning BAR is popular, as is the civie HK version of the G3. although a semi auto isn't permissable in all EU countries.

i'd suggest a stout caliber, 308 and up, i'd prefer a 30-06 or a 9.3x62. what you want is managable stopping power, heavey slow bullets are pretty good, quick recoil recovery gives added shot chances.
Personaly i'd like an AR 15 in 9.3x62. sure it don't exist and i'd probably never be invited again after turning up with such a rifle, but it would work well. !!

some form of singnal vest or blaze orange is a requirement, but should be provided if needed.

some practice on moving targets is an advantage, as the shot to kill ratio is pretty miserable on the whole, i pride my self on a 90% or so shot to kill ratio, but i practice a lot and am good with a shot gun, which helps. and i'm chosey about shots i take.

not much else to say i guess..
enjoy, Waidmannsheil !!
Pete

Pete,

It's obvious our experience at Driven Wild Boar meshes.

Thanks for adding your $0.02 worth; some sage advice all around and excellent points on top of my already long-winded essays.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pete Lincoln:
some practice on moving targets is an advantage, as the shot to kill ratio is pretty miserable on the whole, i pride my self on a 90% or so shot to kill ratio, but i practice a lot and am good with a shot gun, which helps. and i'm chosey about shots i take.

I couldn't agree with your last sentence more! About 300 meters from where I was posted on Saturday would have lead you to believe a Third World rebellion had broken out from the amount of shooting! Net result was one poor, smallish, gut-shot Überläufer!

Gerry i know what you mean, how many guys have thier rifles zeroed by thier Buechsenmacher, and don't try them until its on live game.
I tend to think of the driven hunt as a bit of a zulu dawn.. don't shoot until you can see the whites of thier eyes..
You ever been to the Kettner range near the airport, i was just up there check zeroing..
Pete

Guys,

What sort of range would you say your average shot is at? Also for how long can you see the boar in metre terms? When they flush are they in the open for long or is it generally snap shooting?

Rgds,
FB

FB, it depends entirely on which kind of stand you get, the worst kind is where you are watching up and down a ride or track thats between 2 thickets, that is litteraly see it shoot it, you have a split second to think and get on target and pull the trigger.
most hunts have something like decent stand placement, so game will be running through trees, or across open clearings within your arc of fire.
I've shot game on driven hunts as far away as 150m and as close as 1m. and everything in between. 150m shot is a one of and not advisable to take due to the location of beaters, walkers etc, however in this case i knwe where the beaters where and had a mound as a back stop.
usualr range, i would say anywhere from 100 down to about 20m. with most of it bieng around the 50m mark.
also failed to comment on the day time stalking of boar,.
boar tend to go nocturnal in any areas with any human presence, in areas where they are not disturbed, then it is normal to see them during the day also.
Stalking them at night, especialy in fresh snow is one of the most exciting hunting practices, it can also be done with moon light and no snow.
Pete

Brian,

I'm with Pete on the potential ranges. It varies but I'd have to say the average is about 40-50 meters, mostly closer.

The visibility is directly related to the peg (luck of the draw) you get placed on. Saturday I was in a ravine with heavy undergrowth on both sides and a pasture in the middle, so it runs the entire spectrum from end of your nose to a couple hundred meters.

I popped one with a Swedish 2X Aimpoint at a lasered 115 meters, right through the X-Ring. I like this Aimpoint because it's got as 2moa Dot. Unlike most Red Dots I sight it in and get good grouping with it at 100 meters. My Millet has a Red Dot about the size of a dinner plate at 50 mtrs. It's great for up-close work but when it starts getting "out-there" the dot covers the entire body/target.

Almost every other Boar we picked up was well within the 40-50 meter range, I know because suddenly as it was time to pick-up everyone had a hernia, hip operation, back problem or other such medical ailmanet! The medical problems were directly related to the unevenness of the terrain and thickets.




Pete:

I know the Kettner range very well and was there on Friday to check zero.

I guess we'll have to have a knife fight right away since the Aimpoint mentioned above was attached to a Magna-Ported Blaser R93 in .375H&H Magnum.

Guys, thank you for all the feedback, it is very informative.

Based on this, and some other info we have received, we are going to the Czech Rep on the 04th January next.

Format is to be high seat under the moon on the evenings of 5th-8th January, with some small drives and stalking during the day.

I will be taking my Sauer 202 .270win with 150gr Nosler Partitions. The 8x56 S&B will have to go, thinking of a 1.5-6x42 to replace it.

Is a red dot really necessary, or will a convential scope do? Is the 1.5-6x42 good enough for night time work?

Can't wait to go.

Regards
Brian.

Brian, (whew! Thought I may have to get to the Edit button in time to make amends!)



Congratulations on your choice of CZ Republic hunting opportunities! I wish you guys all sorts of enjoyment and lot's of Waidmannsheil!

Your .270 Winchester stoked with a judicious choice of 150 gr. Nosler Partitions will handily manage the game you expect to encounter in the Czech Republic. I'm betting on bacon & sausages in January.

I'm a bit confussed with your scope decision? Your quote, "The 8x56 S&B will have to go though,". Meaning? It will accompany you on this trip or be taken off the rifle?

Personally I consider this one of the abslolute premium night scopes, since in this 8x56 price & performance range it's pretty much a toss up whether or not it's a Zeiss, Swarovski or S&B; net, EXCELLENT, if not the ultimate Full Moon Wild Boar piece of kit.

My 9.3x62 wears a Zeiss 8x56 with German #1 recticle and brother, if there is enough light to see & shoot with at night; it delivers.

My L/H Winchester Model 70 .375H&H Super Express (the pride of my gun collection) wears a 1983 vintage used-but-not-abused Kahles 1.5-6x42 with a #4 recticle (wide, thick Duplex). I'd put this scope (or similar quality & power) up against any other scope for short, medium or long range work, period. You would be well-served by this combo on a Drive Hunt (with or without any Red Dot, Flash Dot or other type of Dot in it) BUT it has it's limitations as a serious Night Hunting Piggie optic - for Drive Hunts it's the Bee's Knee's. Gee, do I have an opinion?

Net, sounds to me like you need a set of EAW mounts (pivot, side swing mounts) for that Sauer so you can do the quick change to a nifty 1.5-6x42 for daytime close-in work and make a click-swing-switch to the 8x56 S&B for serious night time sniping.

If you're interested and it's within the budget for the CZ trip (or the future) send me a PM and I'll give you the gory $$$ details and hook you up with prompt delivery.

Gerry, regarding scopes, I am a great believer in keeping things simple. I know the 8x56 is perfect for the night time work. I also know it not very suitable for daytime work. This scope is currently in EAW fixed mounts, which although are not QD, will repeat perfectly, just need to carry a screwdriver.

I have considered both a 2.5-10x56 and a 1.5-6x42 as a permanent replacement for the 8x56. I feel the 2.5-10 is very heavy, and will likely make the rifle quite top heavy. I wonder if the 1.5-6x42 set at 6 is good enough for the night time work? I would

Why does S&B or Swarovski not make a 1.5-8x50 or 56. To me this would be the perfect do everything european scope?


Regards
Brian.

There is always the problem between day-time and night-time use of a scope. Any scope you choose will be a compromise in this respect.

One of the more sensible compromises (in particular if you are worried about weight) is a Zeiss VM/V 2.5-10x50. It is not much larger than a 1.5-6x42, does not weigh as much as the 2.5-10x56 scopes (from Swaro or S&B, say), has an excellent FOV for use on driven game, yet still provides pretty good low light performance. You can extend low light performnace a bit if you add an illuminated reticle option - at a price, naturally....

Anyway, everybody have their own preferences, and I have actually sworn not to offer mine as advice. I guess I can't help myself from time to time...

Brian,

I agree with mho. If you thumb through the the catalogs you'll find the "compromise" & "wanna-be everything" sized scopes. Leupold has some good ones too, they don't have to be all European.

Nothing wrong with this either. The middle spectrum between the 42's and the 56's is in the 48, 50 & 52mm objective sizes, the power varies (pun) between 2.5/3.5-4 to about 9-12 depending on manufacturer. Some can still be quite large; others, like the new S&B Zenith and Zeiss's are much smaller than their earlier generation scopes in this power & twilight factor. The Swaro's claim to fame I think is that it is the lightest of the bunch? The Zeiss Conquest 3-9x50 is a fine scope in this catagory and very good value.

I've such a compromise scope on my Blaser .30/06 Sprg. barrel; a 2.5-10x48 Docter (Zeiss Jena) with an illuminated Dot recticle and it's a pretty good all-around compromise. Just had to have one of these Illuminated dots but find myself usng it less & less. Could I live without the very expensive illuminated bit in the middle? Absolutely!

Having said that it is a compromise, a little larger, heavier and longer than a light weight stalking glass but affords the twilight factor when I need it. The Docter decision was made on price criteria - it was the least expensive ('cause they're all expensive in this catagory) of that size illuminated dot recticle scopes and the quality was there as well.

Would I take it to the CZ Republic? You betcha!

When I tested a swaro 6x42 against a swaro 8x56 in my high seat at last light I could not notice an improvement over the 6x42.

I second Mikes suggestion - I once had a Swaro 3-12x50 (big 6x42 fan) I was desperately trying to shoot a big muntjac buck in very very dark conditions. Set at 6x I could make out a shape, at 12x I could shoot it.

From this and other experiences I think magnification is a very important part of low light ability - 3-12x50 illuminated for me!

One thing you have to be aware of when looking for a scope for night time use is the reticle. Regardless of how large an objective lens you get, the reticle is going to be the first thing to disappear when night falls. Unless you get an illuminated reticle, you are really forced to get a European reticle for this use - the US reticles are designed for daytime use, and won't give you much joy in low light.

In a un-illuminated reticle you need THICK outers, and preferably thin inners - unless you want to shoot reticles like the #1, which are optimised for low light use, but a pain in the posterior for precise shooting, IMHO.

In an illuminated reticle, make sure you get a reticle that will not "over shine" the target. This is one case where a little light is good, and more light is NOT better. But illuminated reticles have been discussed at length in here, so with judicious use of the search facility, you should be able to get about 10 million opinions on that issue.

- mike

quote:

Originally posted by 1894mk2:
From this and other experiences I think magnification is a very important part of low light ability - 3-12x50 illuminated for me!

Absolutely, but again it all comes down to compromises. The 3-12 magnification is less optimal for use on running game - where you'd really want a 1.5-6... There is no way to win them all. One chooses according to personal requirements dictated by hunting opportunities at hand, and even that can be difficult enough from time to time...

I should add, one thing which has happened in later years, is that scopes have been improved in terms of FOV. It is quite possible to get a modern 3-12 with a larger FOV than an older 2.5-10. Besides, FOV also differs from brand to brand...

- mike

CD

Another option which addresses a point of aim at night as well as shortrange fast moving targets, is an illuminated Aimpoint type sight.

As has been suggested, I combine QD mounts with a scope for stalked or longer range animals and a red dot sight for the close and running shots.




It seems to work very well out to 100m or so - not so sure about running game over that range myself.

One thing that makes a big difference to success on stand, is using your ears. Keep them uncovered - the sound of an approaching pig allows you to be set up and ready when it finally errupts from cover.

Sound advice indeed. That is one happy looking hunter in the Photo and rightly so. Out of curiosity what caliber is the rifle?

Cheers

quote:

Originally posted by 1894mk2:

I second Mikes suggestion - I once had a Swaro 3-12x50 (big 6x42 fan) I was desperately trying to shoot a big muntjac buck in very very dark conditions. Set at 6x I could make out a shape, at 12x I could shoot it.

From this and other experiences I think magnification is a very important part of low light ability - 3-12x50 illuminated for me!

I have that scope on my sauer and it is the nuts. The IR is a really good investment in my opinion for low light shooting, really helping you pick a spot.

The 2.5-10 was to unwieldy for my likeing although it was the first choice before I put it on the rifle.

Could you not use open sights for getting really up close and personal?? I've never done any of this shooting at running game thing so that may be a naive question.

FB

Ian,

Very nice piece of dead pork laying at your feet!

You & I are definately aligned on the QD mounts, What IS that scope on your rifle - looks nice & compact?

An emphatic yes to the hearing/listening. I also use my electronic Ear Defenders turned up to max when High Seat and Drive Hunting you defiantely get a heads up way-y-y-y out there.

FB,

Yes, I do on occaision use the open sights on my 9.3x62 in combination with the Red Dot & Zeiss 8x56 scope.

Well i had an interesting evening and days boar hunting yesterday. but more on that later when ive driven home to pick up my camera.
On to optics for wild boar.
8x56 is fine for high seat night time operations, a variable gives you however far more scope (no pun intended) of employment for the optical device. I'm a big S&B fan, ive worked with the company a lot (and with Leica also for that matter) and have had several inventions or ideas turned into reality by S&B, the 4-16x42PMII and the P4 reticle to name a couple. So as far as optical quality goes, I'm certainly a European optics chear leader,, i currently think S&B have the lead in that department.
For driven wild boar there is no finer piece of equipment than a S&B Zenith with a flash dot reticle. in this scope yoiu have all the advantages of an aimpoint red dot sight for close and fast moving game, plus the advantages of a scope at longer range and for precise shot placement.
I'm currently trying to get S&B to build a 1.5-6x42 zenith PMII with the same NVG compatible retciel technology thats in the 1.25-4 PMII. It would make a great designated marksmans scope and be a damn good hunting scope.
I like the 1.5-6x42 Zenith, on a budget i would be tempted to go for one of the larger Zeniths and use it for everything, night time and driven.
On the question of scope mounts,, sorry to burst all youir EAW swing off mount guys bubbles, but they are to unreliable, they will not stand up to a heavey recoiling rifle and a heavey scope without shooting loose, with the popularity of moderators in the UK and the increased stresses on scope, and mounting hard ware, i would steer away from EAW swing offs, ive had nothing but trouble with them.
The very very very best way of mounting a scope is to equip the rifle in question with a picatinny rail and an appropriate set of rings. you can quick release the rings with the help of a t handle torgue wrench, and the return to zero is 100% reliable. But to be honest, a Zenith with the flash dot takes away the need for a scope and a red dot sight and hence removes the need to swap scopes.
Gerry me n you have to talk, you have to come a lay on my leather couch in my rifle workshop and i'm gonna convince you that you should get rid of that Blaser !!!
more on my yesterdays hunt shortly..
Pete